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IMHO and after 200,000 delivery miles, any production vessel can do trans-oceanic crossings without hull failure. Having said that, any production vessel can fail!! In most instances this failure is with the standing rigging or the rudder/rudder post.
I delivered an Oyster 5 years ago, beautiful, expensive vessel. Encountered gale force winds and had standing rig failure.

This list really doesn't mean a hill of beans. Buy a vessel, inspect and repair it, outfit it to offshore specifications, like the Caribe 1500 standard and enjoy the sea. Go adventure sailing, my friends!! "And bring Dos Equis"
 

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Can't understand how a Yamaha 33' could be on this list, but not certain vintage Jeanneau models, like the Gin Fizz 37' and Sunrise 34/35'. All these boats would need some outfitting/beefing up; having just looked at a Yamaha 33 (though it's been sailed at length offshore) it's pretty marginal. Much prefer these Jeanneau's to it (for solo/short-handed sailing). Laura Dekker circumnavigated her Gin Fizz at age 15 and Alain Maignan circumnavigated his 1980s Sunrise with minimal upgrade budget (2006-07) and is preparing to circumnavigate the 'wrong way round,' next year, in the same boat. Here's an article in French on Alain, translated to English:

Alain Maignan, a world tour like no other
Thursday, October 11, 2012
bit.ly/1qlUL74
 

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Mark on Camper 58
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I searched the thread for Heritage One-Ton (Morgan designed 37'-9"). I feel this is a good candidate for the list. Older IOR design. I spent many years racing this one & in some pretty bad weather. We pushed it hard. It proved to be quite durable.
 

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May God Bless You
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There is a rather lengthy thread with widely varying opinions on the various incarnations of the Hughes 38 here:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat/21297-evaluating-hughes-northstar-38-a.html

Given the divergence of opinion it is not surprising that it is not on the list of suitable offshore cruisers...which is not to say it cannot cross oceans.
its great to have diverse opinions, but when some of those opinions are based on error, then the diversity of opinions is worthless. To wit: there is only one Hughes 38 design (S&S design #1903) with several variations in interior layout, cockpit and deck design. The hull, ballast, tankage, rig (except for traveller) and engine are all the same. The Hughes 38-1, Hughes 38-2, Hughes Northstar 38, and Hughes 38-3. All are design S&S #1903.

Sailboats built by Hughes Boat Works by year on Sailboatdata.com

The differences in the draft and displacement can be explained by the transition from racing to cruising. The boat was designed as a CCA racer, but transitioned to a cruising design, with the inevitable increase in weight.

jon
 

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That list is old. Just google Mahina's web page and you will get an up dated list. It even has our new boat the Boreal 44 on the page and the company is only 5 years old.

Cheers
 

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These lists are fun to talk about but do they really mean anything of importance ?? Probably marginal at best. The author of the lists is an experienced sailor, no doubt about that. Offshore sailing training and helping some of his students choose boats are his main source of income. Just how much personal unbiased knowledge does one sailor have?? Why did the so called list never include a modern entry level production built boat?? Even if you feel that someone like Beneteau doesn't build a good enough boat for offshore today they sure did in their First Series back in the 80's but these models never made the list. Until Catamarans became really popular they were never on the list but I see recently that they are now on the list even though their mono hull sisters are not. Personally I see lots of bias on this list plus I don't care how much you know about boats you can not have an intimate knowledge of hundreds of different designs and boat types. There are all sorts of lists out on the internet about offshore boat choices, this one is no different than any of the others, simply one person's opinion and like all opinions they are neither right or wrong. Like everyone else I am opinionated as well and no I do not own a new entry level production boat.
 

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Yes, I think the lists are best for arguing--and if seeing if your own boat is on it....

Most people never go anywhere on their expensive, new superstrong deepwater yachts with bronze ports and shiny Monitors. Most offshore passagemaking is racing, Bermuda or TansPac, where the emphasis is less on "bluewater strength" than on speed and gear. They go by planing at 15 or 20 knots while the "offshore" double-ender wallows safely at 6.

"The right boat" for offshore is always a good discussion, but the practical fact is obvious to anybody who has actually done it:

You go in the boat you have.
 

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They mention the Amazon, a very poorly built and painted, grossly over priced stock steel boat. The insides had only one coat of primer under the foam; grossly inadequate. They were welded on the outside only, and most of that weld ground off, leaving the thickness of a beer can holding the seams together.
On the origamiboats site , Opus Paul said he saw one drag anchor, and the transom broke away form the hull when it gently hit a mooring buoy.
 

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Picnic Sailor
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There are all sorts of lists out on the internet about offshore boat choices, this one is no different than any of the others, simply one person's opinion and like all opinions they are neither right or wrong. Like everyone else I am opinionated as well and no I do not own a new entry level production boat.
John Neal is probably more qualified than most to have an opinion, and it is one worth taking into consideration but you are correct it a just list of boats to consider written by one sailor. No more no less.

It has in years gone by been somewhat finatically held up as the definitive work on offshore boats - I believe John himself would be uncomfortable with such burden.

On his site is it simple titled 'boats to consider for offshore sailing' and is included at the end of a longer and perhaps more useful section on what he considers desirable attributes in an offshore boat.

It is simply John Neal's list of boats to consider - No more no less.
 

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John has done a huge amount of sail training and if you ever really want to learn something well then teach it. He has a strong bias towards HR's and while he is quick to point out the past failures in other builders you never hear or see anything negative about HR's coming from him. This is exactly what you would expect by someone who has been a spokesman for a brand. We are all sheep to some extent and seem to think that anyone who shares our opinion must be smart, lol. I actually share many of his opinions about good boat construction but I also know that the oceans are being crossed by many many production boats that are not on his list. I also see a bit of a hypocritical approach when he puts French Cats on his list but leaves off mono's. My feeling is that they are on his list to attract buyers for his personal recommendation part of his business. Now let me be clear, if I was running a similar business I might do the same thing. There a fewer and fewer new production boats built with reinforced hulls and glassed in bulkheads, the kind both he and I like so it makes sense to update the list if you wish to stay in business. I know of many excellent offshore cruising boats that are not on his list so my feelings are to use a list like this as a very loose guide, do your own due diligence, its half the fun.
 

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Another thought just crossed my mind..why would you waste your time getting information on well built offshore boats from someone's "list " when you have folks on this board like Robert Perry and Jeff H who combined have probably forgotten more on the subject than those sailors posting their lists. Most sites don't have the depth in design and build experience that is available here. We are all very fortunate to have individuals with such a deep knowledge base who are available for opinions.
 

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On the origamiboats site , Opus Paul said he saw one drag anchor, and the transom broke away form the hull when it gently hit a mooring buoy.
I like to occasionally take it on myself to translate BS' BS every once in a while so that we keep things as factual as possible on SN.

Read BS' BS above a couple of times. Now read the actual quotes from his origami site:
Brent: They used all 1/8th inch plate, which is none too forgiving when corrosion problems begin.It also is much harder to keep fair, and thus they have a lot of filler on them.
opuspaul: That confirms what I thought. I remember years ago a couple who had one in BC. They dragged anchor and bounced their stern against a mooring bouy. I was surprised that it ripped a hole in the weld along the edge of the transom. I can't see that happening on one of your boats.
The "the transom broke away form [sic] the hull when it gently hit a mooring buoy"? I'll have what Brent is smoking.

Why does anyone trust anything this guy says?
 

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Picnic Sailor
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Another thought just crossed my mind..why would you waste your time getting information on well built offshore boats from someone's "list " when you have folks on this board like Robert Perry and Jeff H who combined have probably forgotten more on the subject than those sailors posting their lists. Most sites don't have the depth in design and build experience that is available here. We are all very fortunate to have individuals with such a deep knowledge base who are available for opinions.
We are very fortunate indeed.

Add to this Paulo's enthusiasm when he contributes, the wisdom of the likes of Jon Eisenberg and SV Auspicious, a couple of circumnavigators, a bunch of experienced cruisers like yourself Robert and a stirrer or two to mix things up and you have why I love Sailnet.
 

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We are very fortunate indeed.

Add to this Paulo's enthusiasm when he contributes, the wisdom of the likes of Jon Eisenberg and SV Auspicious, a couple of circumnavigators, a bunch of experienced cruisers like yourself Robert and a stirrer or two to mix things up and you have why I love Sailnet.
Couldn't agree more, lots of sailing knowledge on this site!
 

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Sure be curious about Steve's opinion on metal v. glass. He has cruised extensively in glass ( mason 44) and now in metal ( Boreal 44).
Have friend who has done tens of thousands of miles in solid glass (V42 & Outbound 46), cored glass and now CF/foam. With the CF boat some troubles with metal deck fittings (issue of SS already mentioned). Current boat has no chainplates, eyes or other things. All that stuff is CF and part of original lay up. Connections to stays dyneema cord. But stantions, davit fittings and the like are not apparently well isolated. Boat has done two circumnavigations and looks new except at those spots. He likes V42 Outbound. He thinks with such boats carrying the loads they do and with polars they have going to CF for rudder posts or rigs or even hulls would produce such modest increase in performance as to not justify expense. I note his CF cat can exceed theoretical hull speed with ease. He can do the New England to BVI passage in in half the time I can. He is sailing when I have the engine on ( goes on if sog is 5 or below).
Wonder what's technique for isolation?
 

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One real advantage to aluminum is that you can create a one off of custom design/build at reasonable costs compared to glass. There are other advantages as well but if I was shopping for a custom one off I would go with aluminum
 

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Chall03, Nice to have you on board. There are enough Boreals out there now that I don't know everyone. PM me sometime, I'd love to hear more of your boat.

First, on the list that John made. He does update it when he gets info on a boat he thinks should be on the list. He had a client that was interested in a Boreal and contacted my wife Tracy about how we liked our Boreal. We also met with John and Amada for a brief visit down in Panama and talked some more about the Boreal and that was a great visit.

Outbound, The mystery of owning an aluminum boat is now gone as we have had ours for a couple of years now. All the worry about corrosion have past. We have left the boat on the hard in Panama as a precaution to a bad marina. Not that the marina we are at has a bad problem but just in case a boat with bad power moved in beside us. There are plenty of aluminum boats still being left at a slip unattended for the summer season. Most of these aluminum boats are from Europe and the Europeans are more confident that their boat will not corrode if left at a slip. In Europe most marinas have lousy power and they never seem to have a problem. So I guess what I'm saying is this type of boat is a lot tougher than what a lot of people say about them here in N. America. If anyone has ever been commercial fishing in Alaska on an aluminum boat you will know that they have a habit of throwing old steel blocks in the bilge and they stay there for 20 years or so, still no problem.

As for the Boreal itself. What Chall03 says, "a seriously nice boat". The design is amazing as she does passages across oceans in an amazing sea kindly way. Withe lee dagger board down there is no wobble of the ass end that you get on many cutter rigs on a long broad reach. The aluminum is quiet beyond belief with its 3 inches of insulation. And she goes to weather very nicely for a centerboard boat. Also she heaves to better than any boat I have sailed on in the last 40 years.

Cheers
Steve and Tracy
 
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