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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As this is an information post for people researching cruising there it needs to remain active in this part of SailNet. Thus political rants will be deleted that would normally move the threat to Politics forum.

Effective Tuesday, private and corporate aircraft, cruise ships, private yachts, fishing boats, and other similar aircraft and vessels will also now be barred from traveling to Cuba, according to the Commerce Department.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-admin-restricts-us-travel-cuba-banning-group/story?id=63478154



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Thanks for the post. I saw it elsewhere also. I got the sense that they are threatening to be more diligent on enforcement. Whether they follow through or not, track AIS for example, remains to be seen. Something to think about for sure.

Im adding this as a request for clarification from someone who knows. I THINK this is just a return to a previous position, not new legislation. And I THINK that legislation actually did not bar a USA citizen from Cuba travel, just from spending money in Cuba, effectively the same thing.

Was the previous rule truly about spending money?
Is the simply a reinstatement if the original rule?
OR is this some new legislation?
 

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US citizens have traveled to Cuba for decades, via another country. Often, via Bahamas, Mexico or Canada. I don't agree with the practice, but have lost count of how many people I personally know who've done it. The bigger question is whether this will be cracked down upon.

It is clearly political, nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I have zero interest in going there, until it gets resolved. There are so many other, equal interesting, places on the globe and I'll never get to them all. It seems to be human nature to want what you're told you can't have.

Go to Puerto Rico. It's a gem.
 

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No new legislation has been passed. This is just a tightening up of the enforcement. The Obama administration relaxed the enforcement in two significant ways:

1. They allowed you to go without prior approval.
2. They allowed almost ANY kind of visit to be accepted as a "cultural" or "educational" exchange.

The Trump administration is just returning to stricter enforcement of the law, as it is written.

The headline on the article is a bit misleading and sensationalistic, since we are not "now" banned from traveling there, but have been for decades. The law is simply "now" being enforced.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The headline on the article is a bit misleading and sensationalistic, since we are not "now" banned from traveling there, but have been for decades. The law is simply "now" being enforced.
Sorry, I was using "now" as to mean 2019 as opposed to Obama's loosening or the previous system. It wasn't meant be be sensationalist in the manner you describe, I just didn't want people telling me US citizens have been banned since 1963.
Remember, I'm Australian so I don't know all your laws :)
 

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The law does not actually ban an American’s presence in Cuba. It forbids, without permission, having any economic transactions with Cuba. You can’t spend any money there, nor allow anyone to spend it on your behalf. Since US insurance is inapplicable in Cuba, they require you purchase a short term policy, when you arive. A really good idea, BTW. The US should do the same, if a tourist or immigrant is uninsured. So there is no way to avoid spending money, even if you brought your boat and didn’t have to pay for a room or food.

There have always been valid reasons to apply for permission. From memory, those included having family there, or being in the press or clergy on business, among a few others. Vacation was never one of them.

The Obama administration added a “people to people” valid reason. Essentially a group had to have some formal program associated with it. It was just a silly way to get around the law they obviously didn’t want to change. I know several who went on one of these people-people things. They were simply approved tour groups and pretty pricey. That’s what they will no longer grant as an exception.
 

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Have wanted to sail to Cuba since I got my first sailboat about 20 years ago. Had nothing to do with being told you aren't able to travel there. The fact that it's less than a hundred miles from the keys is one thing that I find appealing, would be nice to incorporate it into a trip to the keys which is more than likely about as far as I'll ever venture. Looks like it will be another winter before I'll be able to make the trip since I'll most likely still be putting the boat back together this coming winter. Maybe things will change before I make the trip.... who knows. Regime change in both countries would probably help.
 

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The Bahamas are closer, if that’s an issue. The out islands are absolutely fantastic. Stay away from Nassau and Freeport. The Bahamas don’t have the Latin culture, but you don’t have to travel much further to find it. Then again, you can find all the Latin culture you like right in Miami. 🙂
 

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Sorry, I was using "now" as to mean 2019 as opposed to Obama's loosening or the previous system.
No need for an apology. The article you linked made it sound like this was some new change to the law, which it is not. I probably shouldn't have focused so much on the word "now," as on the implication in the article that the laws had changed.

Anyway, it's all good (as they say).
 

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SDR organized a cruise to Cuba. I didn’t go but others did and had a good time. Cuba hasn’t crapped up their southern shore nor reefs. Apparently very beautiful place to snorkel or dive.
Net effect means less USA economic involvement with Cuba so less influence. Plenty of Europeans and Canadians to fill the gap so minimal impact on Cuba. Agree maduro needs to go but this will not increase likelihood of that occurring.
Of greater concern is how China is extending huge loans throughout the Caribbean. Then using Chinese laborers to build multiple ridiculous things. Will bankrupt these islands when loans come due so further create difficulties for the IMF. Chinese imperialism in the Caribbean and Africa is forcing out US heavy industry and impeding local construction industries.
This is where the federal government can have a big positive effect on both local economies/workers and uS companies.
Everyone either works for the government or tourism. Drives a used Japanese or Korean car. You see no American involvement other than NYY baseball caps. Caribbean is our neighborhood and the Chinese are eating our lunch here. Meanwhile mr. temper tantrum is sacrificing our economic future.
I’m no liberal rather fairly libertarian but strongly object to his economic policies to date. Ballooning the National debt, hastening the destruction of the middle class and decreasing our “soft power”.
 

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Well, all the cruise ships are cancelling scheduled trips.
I assume the cruise ships had applied for person-to-person exemptions, which are no longer valid. They've only been valid for the past half dozen years or so.

While I don't think any of us have all the information on why multiple administrations, from both parties, have held up this economic ban, it's clear none were willing to dismantle it. Lot's of theories and opinions, some make sense, some don't. Mostly emotional.

Nevertheless, the point is that all economic activity accrues to the government there, whose system decides how much their people get. Sending cruise ships full of vacation dollars certainly runs counter to having the economic embargo at all. Seems they have to decide which way it needs to be. While I'd rather not be in this tussle, I trust they know more that we do (lots of covert stuff going on via Cuba), so will follow whatever law is in effect.

Seriously, I have plenty of other places to go.
 

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Of greater concern is how China is extending huge loans throughout the Caribbean. Then using Chinese laborers to build multiple ridiculous things. Will bankrupt these islands when loans come due so further create difficulties for the IMF. Chinese imperialism in the Caribbean and Africa is forcing out US heavy industry and impeding local construction industries.
You're not kidding! Their One Belt One Road initiative is a coherent, long term economic policy that anyone not Chinese should be concerned about.

It's curious that US law requires the Executive branch to produce a National Security Strategy that aligns all of the government's agencies under one coherent policy document providing for long term planning and consistency in the defense realm, but there is no similar requirement for a national economic policy document to do the same.
 

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While I don't think any of us have all the information on why multiple administrations, from both parties, have held up this economic ban...
I think a better question is, why hasn't Congress done anything about it? The law has not changed in decades. We go back and forth because the different administrations choose to enforce the law (or not) in different ways. If Congress would actually do their jobs, there wouldn't be all these changes every time the administration changes.

And lest anyone think this is a Trump thing, let's not forget that the president who first originated the Cuban embargo was John F Kennedy. Darling of the left, and liberal icon, but in today's world he would be considered a hard-line right-winger on this particular issue!
 

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And lest anyone think this is a Trump thing, let's not forget that the president who first originated the Cuban embargo was John F Kennedy. Darling of the left, and liberal icon, but in today's world he would be considered a hard-line right-winger on this particular issue!
Some of us are old enough to remember how Cuba brought us to the brink of nuclear war with the help of Russian ballistic missile installations. The Cuban missile crisis was a sobering reality check on the Castro dictatorship and the US response was overwhelmingly bipartisan.
 

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Still Reagan was smart enough to realize coca coca, Big Macs, rock and roll etc. had a lot to do with undercutting the iron curtain and lead to the demise of the soviets. Unfortunately it was replaced with an oligarchy. Soft power is not to be discounted.
We can compete and win in Africa and the Caribbean but we must first join the fight.
 
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