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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently bought a Tazer 22 sailboat and "apparently" the jib is too short and won't raise all the way. (I say apparently because 6 people couldn't figure it out)

The specifications in the manual call for a 110 sq ft jib, so I googled it and found a 110 for a decent price but it came off a Catalina. I'm no sailboat expert (which you probably figured out) but I know there's multiple ways to cover 110 sq ft and I'm wondering if there is some kind of design standard that sail makers follow? In other words, can I use the Catalina sail?

http://www.tanzer22.com/Home/library/tanzer-22-owners-manual
 

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I am not familiar with any of the boats. But area is only the result of the two dimensions. One is the hight of the mast from the boat and the other one is the distance of the head (front of the boat) to the mast base. These are I and J dimensions. You have to check these dimensions of your boat and the dimensions of the offered sail.
 

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Some used sail sellers will list luff length as well - obviously the luff length cannot be longer than your forestay length - but should be about 3-6 inches shorter to allow for stretch.

Having a smaller jib that is not full hoist is not that big a deal.. if it's in good shape I wouldn't sweat it too much as long as it's not too extremely short.

There are several sites that will list the relevant I, J, P, E dimensions of most rigs of most designs out there. Finding comparable dimensions between boats will mean sails off those other boats may fit. Here's a diagram from Sailboatdata.com that defines these dimensions:

http://sailboatdata.com/rig_diagram.htm

It's also possible that a sailmaker can make minor modifications to improve the fit (or the shape) of old or used sails. These costs are usually minimal but beware of spending money on a sail that's seen the last of it's 'decent' days.

Here's a list of such sites:

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourcei...n=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sailboat rig dimensions
 

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Sails can be cut in a variety of ways. You can have a high clew or a deck sweeper. So you might want to see where the sheet should lead and see if the new sail will be close.
I don't see how you are having so much trouble with a smaller sail. Could it be you are putting it on upside down? You can add a pennant to the top or bottom to get the halyard right, but unlike a sail that is too big, a smaller one should fit on the stay.
Pictures would help.
 

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Capta has a good point.. the issue with 'clew' location will show up when the 'proper' sheet lead for the sail won't line up with your genoa/jib block and/or track.
 

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I recently bought a Tazer 22 sailboat and "apparently" the jib is too short and won't raise all the way. (I say apparently because 6 people couldn't figure it out)
You have already received good advice here. One thing that has not been mentioned is that boats often have a number of sails for different wind conditions. My boat currently has 3 foresails - small(85%), medium (100%) and large (120%). (Somewhat simplified: the percentage is the space from the forestay to the mast; if a sail gos to the mast but no further, it is 100%).

In mid-summer when winds are strong, I use the smallest sail. In winter, light winds, the larger. Perhaps your jib is small as it is for heavier winds?

A photo would help. As has been said, sails can be made in many shapes and sizes, so your existing sail may well be okay for your boat. As long as the luff can be stretched tight on the forestay, it'll probably work. Perhaps you should try it out for a while, and if it works, build experience; you will then be in a better position to know exactly what sail you need - and then can look out for it.
 

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Keep your jib positioned as low as possible - it works much better that way. Smaller jib is no big deal. Make sure you do not buy one that is too big. Re-cutting sails that are too big costs a lot of money.
 

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So, the research says:
I for the Tanzer is 2.6 feet greater than the Catalina.
J for the Tanzer is 0.5 feet greater than for the Catalina.
Therefore the Catalina Jib should be slightly smaller than the fore triangle of the Tanzer and you should be able to use it without problems from a fit perspective.
Why could you and your friends no raise the sail?
John
Ps. You can install a short pennant between the tack and the stem fitting which would allow the sail to be raised as high as possible, but you probably don't want to do that. The jib halyard doesn't care if it is pulled all the way to the mast or not and having the tack close to the deck has its advantages.
John
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You have already received good advice here. One thing that has not been mentioned is that boats often have a number of sails for different wind conditions. My boat currently has 3 foresails - small(85%), medium (100%) and large (120%). (Somewhat simplified: the percentage is the space from the forestay to the mast; if a sail gos to the mast but no further, it is 100%).

In mid-summer when winds are strong, I use the smallest sail. In winter, light winds, the larger. Perhaps your jib is small as it is for heavier winds?

A photo would help. As has been said, sails can be made in many shapes and sizes, so your existing sail may well be okay for your boat. As long as the luff can be stretched tight on the forestay, it'll probably work. Perhaps you should try it out for a while, and if it works, build experience; you will then be in a better position to know exactly what sail you need - and then can look out for it.
I'll take some pictures tomorrow when we put the sails up.
I'm still having problems calculation the square footage though. I added them up again and got 96. The dimensions of the jib are 25ft 4 in, 8ft 2 in, 23ft 7 in. Can so,done double check my math?
 

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Don't worry about the area... the actual perimeter dimensions and angles are more important for a good fit on your rig.

It's more conventional to refer to a headsail size in regards to the J measurement vs the sail's LP (length of a line from clew through and perpendicular to the luff) - ie if they are equal it's referred to as a 100% jib. If you had a 10 foot J meas. and a 12 foot LP that would be a 120%.. as a practical measure and for rating purposes the upper limit is usually around 150 or 155%.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Why could you and your friends no raise the sail?
Because when we pulled the halyard as far as it could go, the top of the sail was still 2ft shorter than the top of the mast and it was flapping around very hard...

One of the guys from sailing class said "the jib's too short" and we all just kind of ran with that idea, like "well it must be too short then", but the more I think about it, the last owner didn't have this problem, so maybe it's supposed to be that short.
 

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Because when we pulled the halyard as far as it could go, the top of the sail was still 2ft shorter than the top of the mast and it was flapping around very hard...
That does not sound like a big deal. Not all sails need to go to the very top - many are designed not to. So a couple of feet shorter is fairly common. As long as the halyard is tight, stretching the sail slightly, you are good to go.

"Flapping around very hard" is normal if there is wind and you have not yet pulled the sail into the correct position. Especially if you are raising the sail while the boat is on the land, or tied up at the slip. When you pull the jib sheets tight, the flapping stops and the boat starts moving.

Incidentally, make sure the jib sheets are routed outside the stays (wires which hold the mast up), generally through a block and back to winches in the cockpit. When you tighten up on these ropes (called jib sheets) you don't want then to snag on something - with the wind in the sail there can be a lot of force.
 

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On a Tanzer 22 the jib sheets are inside of the lifelines and the shrouds. there is a jib lead track on the cabin top. this limits the boat to about about a 110% jib. if you have a genoa (large jib 120% to 155%) then you will need a fairlead on the gunnel and the genoa will go outside the lifelines
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
On a Tanzer 22 the jib sheets are inside of the lifelines and the shrouds. there is a jib lead track on the cabin top. this limits the boat to about about a 110% jib. if you have a genoa (large jib 120% to 155%) then you will need a fairlead on the gunnel and the genoa will go outside the lifelines
We were debating that last week and I said no, put the jib sheets through the hardware that's provided on the boat... I got a picture of the top.
 

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Nice!!.. Hydrolift too!

Sheets inside as OB mentioned..
 

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Sail area is the result of its dimensions. You cannot select a sail with area. For example a 2 x 2 square sail is equal to 4 x 2 triangle sail, bu you cannot use them interchangeably. A 4 x 2 tringle sail is not the same as 8 x 1 triangle sail. Make sure you have the I and J dimensions for jibs.
 

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Monaco-
Think of your sails as like any other "garment". The designer, and the buyer, can have all sorts of different opinions and choices for how the garment will be made.

The US Army issues uniforms that are "correct". And yet, some officers have always had theirs tailored. Men's suits? Some fit off the rack, others get tailored. Tuxedos? Ever notice, they're not all made the same? And even parochial school skirts get tailored sometimes.(G)

So for now, you make do with whatever you've got. That's part of sailing, there are no handy Wal-Marts or 7-11's or hardware stores on boats, right?

In your spare time you can read up on sails and sail trim (there are some good articles collected in Sail Magazine's "Best of Sail" book) and maybe ask the class association, or a local sail loft, what it would cost to get a 'standard' set of new sails that match the class association spec.

If the designer has done a good job, and taken some considerations like cutting the job higher to clear the boat and allow vision, or cutting it lower to sweep the deck and give more power, the original sails will do a good job all around. But there are choices and options and you can certainly have a sail re-tailored (re-cut) or made differently for your wants. As you read up on how the choices will affect the sail, you can decide what you want to do, or just sail with what you've got and enjoy it.

The difference between NEW sails and old sails, which are frequently blown out of their original shape, can be the same as the difference between driving an old car that is firing on 4 cylinders, and then driving the same car after a major tune-up with all 6 or 8 working again.

If there are any sail lofts near you, drop in and ask them sometime. Sure, they have an interest in selling you something, but most will be glad to help you understand the options, as well.
 
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