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baDumbumbum
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Discussion Starter #1
We'll likely be putting a Boomkicker (Model 800, 300#) or rigid vang on our Albin Ballad. I notice most rigid vangs use a cascading 6:1 or 8:1 purchase, rather than the 3:1 or 4:1 more common on small to mid-size boats. Perhaps that's to overcome the upwards force of the rod spring? Anyway, do you think we should increase the vang advantage with either triple blocks or some kind of cascade? Our boom is only a bit over 9' long (love those IOR mainsails!), but the rise between deck and boom is not great. The vang will likely make a 30 degree angle with the deck, rather than the preferred 45*. (One concern I have is the huge compression load on the gooseneck a high-powered vang might generate.)

Also, because the traveler is boom-end, it's not going to be much use for leech tension below close hauled. We might need the vang to help out with that. I'd rather not lead our vang to the coachroof winch, if we can avoid it. That's a great way to break stuff. OTOH, if the vang is too hard to set, we won't use it like we should.
 

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We have a Boomkicker with 4:1 purchase on ours. Next year I'm going to 6:1 because there is little adjustment as is. Just too much initial pressure from the rods then you add sail tension.
 

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Real easy to double a 4:1 to an 8:1.. less rope than a 6:1 and gives you more power. You definitely need a bit more purchase to overcome the constant 'lift' of a spring, gas, or otherwise loaded support vang.
 

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Do your boat, and your wallet, a favor and buy a Garhaurer solid vang sized for your boat. You'll be very happy you do. BTDT...
 

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Yes, I have the Garhauer too, and it's great. Lots of purchase so it's easy to make adjustments.
 

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baDumbumbum
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Discussion Starter #6
I'll talk to Garhauer & see if we could get along with a vang spec'ed for a smaller boat. The main is only 171sqft and very high aspect. The cheaper aluminum tube version of the Garhauer rigid vang runs $375. Boomkicker 800 is $184. And the boat came with quite a haul of large Schaefer, Kenyon, and (less good) Fico blocks, including some really beefy Schaefer #7 fiddles. The same blocks they use in their $540 soft vang. (Which is puzzling, really, since the vang tackle that was on the boat wouldn't have cut it on a Laser. I'd be nervous using it to hoist 5 gallon jerry cans out of the dink.)

So we have the bits to build a really good 4:1 or 8:1 to accompany the Boomkicker. Which would save us a couple bills. Also the option to take off the soft portion of the vang if we need a spare block & tackle for something. But that Garhauer vang sure does look nice. 20:1 would give us fingertip control over leech tension.:)
 

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I'll talk to Garhauer & see if we could get along with a vang spec'ed for a smaller boat. The main is only 171sqft and very high aspect. The cheaper aluminum tube version of the Garhauer rigid vang runs $375. Boomkicker 800 is $184. And the boat came with quite a haul of large Schaefer, Kenyon, and (less good) Fico blocks, including some really beefy Schaefer #7 fiddles. The same blocks they use in their $540 soft vang. (Which is puzzling, really, since the vang tackle that was on the boat wouldn't have cut it on a Laser. I'd be nervous using it to hoist 5 gallon jerry cans out of the dink.)

So we have the bits to build a really good 4:1 or 8:1 to accompany the Boomkicker. Which would save us a couple bills. Also the option to take off the soft portion of the vang if we need a spare block & tackle for something. But that Garhauer vang sure does look nice. 20:1 would give us fingertip control over leech tension.:)
the boom kicker works great and they are simple. if you are using the vang for main sheeting when you run out of travler then you will need at least 8:1. when sheeting the vang has less leverage then the main sheet. if 4: 1 on the main sheet then at least twice that on the vang is needed
 

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on a 30 footer you'll need at least 6:1 and 8:1 would be better. If the boom kicker is sized right, there shouldn't be much difference in load. However, I think the 800 model is too stiff for your setup.
 

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My Catalina 320 came from the factory with a Garhauer that would allow the boom to lower past "level" therefore crashing into the dodger unless held up by the topping lift. When I took it in to Garhauer they said "Looks like it's missing a spring", it had 3 springs and it was built with 4. I asked "so a previous owner removed one?","Or the factory they said, who knows ?" they put another spring in.
Now the vang holds the 11.5 foot boom (heavy) above level and after raising the main I need to apply a lot of vang pressure to get it down. I've never put it to the winch, but more purchase would be nice. Those springs are REALLY stiff, I think if you stood on one it wouldn't compress at all.
 

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baDumbumbum
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Discussion Starter #10
on a 30 footer you'll need at least 6:1 and 8:1 would be better. If the boom kicker is sized right, there shouldn't be much difference in load. However, I think the 800 model is too stiff for your setup.
The model 800 is for 25-27' boats; next size down says 19-25' boats. We don't want to get too lightweight -- because while our boom is short, the spar section is quite large. (Likewise, our Selden mast is a diameter normally seen on 45 footers. :eek:) We also may be extending boom length 18" in the future.

I'll weigh the boom & mainsail & ask BK which model they advise, based on those weights & the geometry of the thing.
 

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I just did a 12:1 using dyneema, low friction rings, finished with 3:1 blocks back to the clutch. All up cost well under 200. Already had a topper on the boom.
 

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baDumbumbum
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Discussion Starter #12
Nifty! Someone put some effort into that deck layout. And money, of course.:laugher I'm actually leaning away from hi-tech cordage on this vang, even tho it will be the line of choice everywhere else, just because the boom can bounce around sometimes & the shock loads transmitted back thru a hi-purchase system might break stuff on our old boat. It's a place where a little stretch might not be unwelcome.

Today I dumped out the bin of spare blocks that came with Fionn and came up with some candidates for a new vang:

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15561841952" title="chand2 by Robert Mcgovern, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15561841952_eceaa2238f_o.jpg" width="700" height="476" alt="chand2"></a>

The thing on the right is the vang that was on the mast. Here is a proto of a new 8:1

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15375366920" title="cascade by Robert Mcgovern, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15375366920_08c6d64d7d_o.jpg" width="537" height="429" alt="cascade"></a>

If we used a becket block up top and put a single where the blue line attaches to the triangle plate, it would become 12:1. Nice thing about vangs or backstay adjusters is you only need about 3" of ultimate travel. Unlike mainsheets.
 

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Nifty! Someone put some effort into that deck layout. And money, of course.:laugher I'm actually leaning away from hi-tech cordage on this vang, even tho it will be the line of choice everywhere else, just because the boom can bounce around sometimes & the shock loads transmitted back thru a hi-purchase system might break stuff on our old boat. It's a place where a little stretch might not be unwelcome.

Today I dumped out the bin of spare blocks that came with Fionn and came up with some candidates for a new vang:

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15561841952" title="chand2 by Robert Mcgovern, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15561841952_eceaa2238f_o.jpg" width="700" height="476" alt="chand2"></a>


The thing on the right is the vang that was on the mast. Here is a proto of a new 8:1

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15375366920" title="cascade by Robert Mcgovern, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15375366920_08c6d64d7d_o.jpg" width="537" height="429" alt="cascade"></a>

If we used a becket block up top and put a single where the blue line attaches to the triangle plate, it would become 12:1. Nice thing about vangs or backstay adjusters is you only need about 3" of ultimate travel. Unlike mainsheets.
Be careful that first 2:1 turn block is strong enough.

Also, leave some travel so you can blow off leech pressure in heavy air.

Whats the triangle plate made of?
 

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baDumbumbum
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Discussion Starter #14
The single block is a Shaefer with SWL of 1000#. That's 125# pull at the free end, which is unlikely unless some idjit puts it on a winch. The triangle currently is 1/4" cherry veneer MDF core, which we'd probably upgrade to 1/4" SS for the real thing. Although that MDF is pretty burly stuff! Doesn't like water, however. ;)

If we drill the triangle with a second hole halfway between where the blue line ties on and the plate's centerline, we'd have the option of shackling the single block to it & putting a larger single w/becket on the boom (12:1), and the plate would remain balanced. With only 26" between deck and boom, we will need to watch our travel distances, tho.
 
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