[NadiaonCatalina34]

VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX2200...


VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 transceiver (share the vhf antenna) versus Standard Horizon GX2200 vhf(has its own AIS receiver only) with no additional AIS transceiver. (or maybe another transceiver if I can shut off the SH AIS receiver so we don't have to listen to a collision alarm 24/7)
There will be a new Garmin gps chartplotter which will be very cooperative with the Garmin vhf and AIS unit.

The old Standard Horizon gasfet technology Titan+ vhf is still working well (after 20 years!!) but we think its time to get a new vhf that has new technology - like a DSC button for one thing. This old vhf has been way better than awesome!

Please respond with opinions and experiences; I am especially interested in comments on the Garmin vhf 200 as Garmin states that they make this radio themselves and do not sub it out to major manufacturers. I am very comfortable with SH and Icom vhfs.

Thank you!

 

[BarryL]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Hello,

I don't think you are making a valid comparison here. Do you want to broadcast and receive AIS info or just receive it? If it's just receive then you have a number of possible products:
SH 2200
Garmin VHF 300 AIS
B&G V50
Lowrance Link8
Raymarine Ray 70
Others too?

The SH radio uses NMEA0183 while the others can use NMEA 2000 or 0183.

If you want to broadcast AIS then each vendor also has a transceiver.

I have the B&G and I'm happy with it. When I bought it there were a few bugs but the latest firmware seems to have solved those problems.

Good luck,
Barry

 

[RobGallagher]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

4 years ago I upgraded to a Standard Horizon VHF with AIS receiver (no transmitter). I got it for one reason only, to see commercial traffic in the fog when it rolls in unexpectedly on Long Island/Block Island Sound.

I have two things to note:

1. I wish I had spend a few more dollars and purchased the model with integrated GPS. I like redundancy. It does not send information to my old chart plotter so it was just a lot of extra wiring and labor to get the GPS signal to the radio.

2. It works remarkably well as a fog elimination system. I have not gotten stuck in the pea soup one single time since installing it! I'm seriously afraid that if I install radar the sun would not set.

 

[Arcb]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

I did a Youtube review on the SH GX2200 about a year ago. I should warn you, I am not SV Delos or Peter Jackson, the video is poorly lit, unscripted with bad sound. But- it does show a GX2200 in operation.

 

[NadiaonCatalina34]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Hello,

I don't think you are making a valid comparison here. Do you want to broadcast and receive AIS info or just receive it? If it's just receive then you have a number of possible products:
SH 2200
Garmin VHF 300 AIS
B&G V50
Lowrance Link8
Raymarine Ray 70
Others too?

The SH radio uses NMEA0183 while the others can use NMEA 2000 or 0183.

If you want to broadcast AIS then each vendor also has a transceiver.

I have the B&G and I'm happy with it. When I bought it there were a few bugs but the latest firmware seems to have solved those problems.

Good luck,
Barry

Thanks!
We originally thought receive AIS only, but have moved on to transceive for the AIS.
I won't consider Raymarine or Navico for this situation (Lowrance, B&G, and Simard are all Navico.)
This is mostly because if I am not going to take advantage of the smooth communication and added features of using the Garmin units with a Garmin gps, then I'll make my choice based upon the vhf manufacturer, quality and reliability.

I think the real question might be, is there any reason to choose the Standard Horizon gx2200 over the Garmin vhf 200? I don't want a lower model unit than the gx2200 because we want automatic fog signals to use with the hailer speaker.
I have not found any comments any where about the Garmin vhf 200.

 

[BarryL]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Hello Again,

I have a Garmin 740S plotter, B&G VHF 50, Raymarine EVO 100 AP, and older ST60 wind/speed/depth.

All are networked together using a NMEA 2000 network.

Regarding AIS, the B&G is receiving the AIS data and the Garmin plotter displays it. I can touch a target on the display and get all of the relevant information. The garmin plotter is calcuating Time to CPA, distance to CPS, etc. I can then use the DSC functions of the VHF to initiate a call, etc. The B&G radio is getting the GPS information from the Garmin unit, and it can display speed, course, distance to waypoint, etc,

I don't know what a garmin VHF would do that the B&G unit doesn't do. Perhaps answer a DSC call on the plotter?

Barry

 

[basssears]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

I have a Garmin 740S plotter, B&G VHF 50, Raymarine EVO 100 AP, and older ST60 wind/speed/depth.

Just to clarify, the VHF 50 does not have built in GPS receiver, correct? So it gets your GPS position from your chartplotter to display AIS info on its own screen, or do you not even bother with that connection?

 

[alctel]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Whatever you get, try to make sure its NMEA2000.

Also, if you get a transponder I'd really use a separate antenna for it mounted on the spread or the rear rail. It's great redundancy, as your VHF can use the AIS one and vice versa - my VHF and AIS units are next to each other for this reason.

I've got the Simrad RS35 which is the same as the B&G 50 unit, and no it doesn't have internal GPS, though it's NMEA2000 so easy to hook up. It had a ton of bugs at first but the new firmware seems to have fixed all the issues. I also have a separate digital yachts AIS transponder/receiver, so the AIS function on the radio is disabled, so I can't tell you how well that works.

I have an NSS8 and I can't make a DSC call from the plotter unfortunately - though I can see and display target info from the MFP display. How does yours work Barry?

 

[BarryL]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Hello,

I am not able to make a DSC call from the Garmin 740. I have a hand held Standard Horizon VHF with DSC. I have configured both the hand held and the B&G V50 with MMSI info for each so I can make DSC calls from one to the other but not with the Garmin Plotter.

Barry

I have an NSS8 and I can't make a DSC call from the plotter unfortunately - though I can see and display target info from the MFP display. How does yours work Barry?

 

[MarkofSeaLife]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

You are getting a new Garmin chart plotter?

Then it would seem to ve the better idea to have all your other units Garmin too. Then if something doesnt talk to another bit you can lump it all on a Garmin tech. They can't say 'email SH, its their fault'.


Mark

 

[SVAuspicious]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

share the vhf antenna

Very bad idea. Lots of previous posts on this subject.

 

[Maine Sail]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

I don't want a lower model unit than the gx2200 because we want automatic fog signals to use with the hailer speaker.
I have not found any comments any where about the Garmin vhf 200.

While the GX 2200 does have a fog hailer, that meets your legal duty, they don't broadcast very loudly. If you want a real fog hailer for safety, not just meeting the letter of the law invest in a FogMate and an Ongaro horn..

 

[Lazerbrains]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Very bad idea. Lots of previous posts on this subject.

I have seperate antennas on my boat, however I have used AIS on other boats with proper splitters and it works just fine up to 16 mile range. Having used systems with a splitter/shared antenna I would not be worried much about setting one up that way.

I am also not convinced that transceivers are necessary for small sailboats. Class A ships, even if they bother to look and see you, expect you to get out of their way. They don't change course when they see a class B. It is up to the small sailboat captain to avoid the collision with them. I frankly don't see much point in transceivers for small sailing yachts, receivers are just fine. Putting faith in the idea that they will look out for you is an easy way to get run over.

 

[SVAuspicious]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

I have seperate antennas on my boat, however I have used AIS on other boats with proper splitters and it works just fine up to 16 mile range. Having used systems with a splitter/shared antenna I would not be worried much about setting one up that way.

The issue is that splitters have at least 3 dB of loss in each direction, plus at least .25 dB for each connector. That means your voice VHF is reduced in power by ONE HALF on both transmit and receive and your AIS is reduced in power by ONE HALF on both transmit and receive.

There are two exceptions. One is to use an active splitter like those from Vespar (abour $300); power to the splitter means a T/R switch not an active circuit. Second is the built-in approach that companies like Standard Horizon use -- their radios run the signal into a low noise amplifier and split it between the AIS receiver or voice just before the discriminator (<- radio geek stuff) so you don't take the hit.

I am also not convinced that transceivers are necessary for small sailboats. Class A ships, even if they bother to look and see you, expect you to get out of their way. They don't change course when they see a class B. It is up to the small sailboat captain to avoid the collision with them. I frankly don't see much point in transceivers for small sailing yachts, receivers are just fine. Putting faith in the idea that they will look out for you is an easy way to get run over.

I generally agree with you. I get a call once in a while from a commercial ship who would probably not have bothered if I wasn't transmitting. Generally I'm calling them. Even then, telling them I'm on AIS so they can find me avoids some confusion. When you deal with professionals on a professional basis they treat you with more respect. Necessary? No.

 

[Lazerbrains]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Vesper is what I have used and found it to be quite good. That's what I meant by a proper splitter.

I would think a class A would also be able to spot you on radar to find you once you made contact. I dunno. I'm going through this same thought process currently as I am replacing an AIS transceiver. I'm not convinced that transceiver has any real benefit other than buddy boating.

The issue is that splitters have at least 3 dB of loss in each direction, plus at least .25 dB for each connector. That means your voice VHF is reduced in power by ONE HALF on both transmit and receive and your AIS is reduced in power by ONE HALF on both transmit and receive.

There are two exceptions. One is to use an active splitter like those from Vespar (abour $300); power to the splitter means a T/R switch not an active circuit. Second is the built-in approach that companies like Standard Horizon use -- their radios run the signal into a low noise amplifier and split it between the AIS receiver or voice just before the discriminator (<- radio geek stuff) so you don't take the hit.



I generally agree with you. I get a call once in a while from a commercial ship who would probably not have bothered if I wasn't transmitting. Generally I'm calling them. Even then, telling them I'm on AIS so they can find me avoids some confusion. When you deal with professionals on a professional basis they treat you with more respect. Necessary? No.

 

[SVAuspicious]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

Vesper is what I have used and found it to be quite good. That's what I meant by a proper splitter.

Agreed. Most splitters are awful. Thus the 3+ dB loss in all four directions.

I would think a class A would also be able to spot you on radar to find you once you made contact. I dunno. I'm going through this same thought process currently as I am replacing an AIS transceiver. I'm not convinced that transceiver has any real benefit other than buddy boating.

Well there are issues. Wood and fiberglass boats are not very good radar targets. Conventional radar reflectors don't work well outside the "catch rain" position (heeled over sailing for example). There are lots of little spots on the radar. Is the person you are talking to on the radio the spot you think?

I agree with your that receiving AIS is important. I suggest that transmitting may have more merit that you have considered.

 

[Lazerbrains]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

I agree with your that receiving AIS is important. I suggest that transmitting may have more merit that you have considered.

I remain unconvinced. Whether they see you or not, class A's will do nothing to avoid you, and will fully expect you to avoid them. So what is the point of showing your position when they will do nothing about it? I also don't make a habit of calling every cargo ship I pass - I just simply alter course to avoid coming too close and in front of their path (if needed) - no real point in hailing them. I do think that transmitting, however, lulls some into a false sense of security.

 

[Arcb]

I think it's a bit of a misconception that large ships will run down yachts detected by AIS. I'm sure it happens, but professional navigators, generally speakincan can be pretty conscientious people.

That's a little bit like assuming a transport truck will run you down because you are in a car. Just like a transport truck, a ship takes longer to turn and longer to stop then a yacht, but they're not a bunch of blood thirsty monsters.

Having said that, I have receive only capability and I'm satisfied with that.

 

[smackdaddy]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

We installed the SH Matrix GX2200 on our boat. We also added the RAM mic at the cockpit. The combination of AIS and GPS in a single unit was exactly what I was looking for. In fact, I already had the previous model without GPS and went ahead and bought this one when it came out.

It's part of our fully integrated system, one that provides a great deal of redundancy. I definitely recommend it.

 

[Lazerbrains]

Re: VHF & AIS OPTIONS: Garmin vhf 200 w Garmin AIS 600 trxcvr vs Standard Horiz GX220

I think it's a bit of a misconception that large ships will run down yachts detected by AIS. I'm sure it happens, but professional navigators, generally speakincan can be pretty conscientious people.

That's a little bit like assuming a transport truck will run you down because you are in a car. Just like a transport truck, a ship takes longer to turn and longer to stop then a yacht, but they're not a bunch of blood thirsty monsters.

Having said that, I have receive only capability and I'm satisfied with that.

I sail in and out of the busiest port in the country - San Pedro. This is where most of the cargo ships from Asia (China) bring goods into the US. As anyone who sails out of here can attest, avoiding numerous cargo ships is a routine part of daysailing here, and none of them will get out of your way, nor change course, nor slow down for you. They have right of way and they know it. I've experienced the same out in the open ocean - when an AIS target appears that shows a frightening CPA, I have tracked the ships - they don't alter course, nor slow down, nor hail you. It's not that they are "bloodthirsty monsters", it is that they assume *you* will alter course, as you should. Besides, do you want to risk it that they will alter course? You will lose, I guarantee it.