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I have Vivid Yellow Bottom Paint on a Catalina 42, looks great but is not smooth (used to use VC-17) Has anyone burnished Vivid? The Vivid rep. said that it would be a waste of time to burnish, any thoughts? McRags
 

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My opinion is; if you want to drastically reduce the lifespan of your already-short-lived Vivid bottom, go ahead and burnish. That stuff is so soft, a harsh look will take most of it off.
 

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Prop Coat

Speaking of Vivid bottom paint by Petit. If anyone has the latest issue of the Jamestown Distributors Catalog take a look at the back few pages which gives a summary of Petit Paint. There's a table showing what systems are best for coating underwater metal including props. The Zinc Barnacle Coat is shown as a good system, but the Vivid Paint is shown as a better and a best system after appropriate prep. It seems to me that their Trinidad SR is the best bottom paint that they make, but yet they reccommend the Vivid. Reasons??
 

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I have Vivid Yellow Bottom Paint on a Catalina 42, looks great but is not smooth (used to use VC-17) Has anyone burnished Vivid? The Vivid rep. said that it would be a waste of time to burnish, any thoughts? McRags
Interesting that the rep said that since the catalog says that it's "easily burnished to a high performance racing finish."
 

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I think that is assuming you have put enough coats on to maintain a good film thickness once you have wet-sanded it smooth. Usually this sort of prep is done in the yard at great time or expense. I have seen photos where it looked as smooth/shiny as the gelcoat above the waterline.

Vivid is closer to an ablative than a hard anti-fouling; and I think you are not supposed to scrub it heavily or very often.
 

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yes.

i used vivid white on my bottom...PO had used it and I just kept it for now.

just using 0000 steel wool will remove the coating on vivid.

the best smoothness with vivid is to make sure you have a well prepared smooth surface, then use a foam roller. its about the best you can get with that paint.

Rick

Interesting that the rep said that since the catalog says that it's "easily burnished to a high performance racing finish."
 

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I have had good results using Vivid. Two coats of Vivid (white) were sprayed on top of an epoxy barrier coat. The bottom was then burnished to very smooth finish by the boat yard. This yard works with a lot of race boats... and are very experienced at doing this. Prior to launching, the finish was very glossy and smooth to the touch. It looked like gelcoat but felt slightly softer. Lots of folks were amazed that it was an ablative paint.

Over the past 18 months it has been very easy to clean and is still very smooth. Just a wipe-down with a soft cloth every few weeks (and right before any major regatta) and it stays nice and white. After 18 months the paint is getting a little thin at the water line and probably needs a haul-out... but it still cleans-up very easy. This is in So Cal, so your mileage may vary.

Last year we had a great race year, so I have no complaints about the speed. True, a hard paint may be slightly faster but based on our observations last year... one slight mistake will make much more of a difference.

- Mark
 

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I have used white Vivid for two years in Boston Harbor on my daughters sailboat with out burnishing and I am very pleased. This season I decided to burnish it per Pettit's published instructions...I rolled and tipped 3 thin coats using a 3/16 roller and foam brush to tip. I'm not a great tipper so I hit it with some 320 wet paper to nock off the brush marks. After that I used Maguire's 85 Diamond Cut Mirror Glaze (this is not a wax!) and polished it at 1800 PRM...came out great - as shiny as the gel coat. Looking forward to see how it holds up this season. I disagree that it is a soft paint...I sanded off last years and found it to quite hard when dry...in the water it wipes/cleans easy and seems soft nut really isn't.
Total time to burnish my daughters 10' (5'beam) Turnabout sailboat bottom was about 1.5 hours including wet sanding...1 quart of Vivid did 3 coats with maybe enough left for a 4th. Very pleased with the result, really does shine up to a slick porcelain finish.

Tips- as I wet sanded (not in vivid directions) next time I'll add an extra coat but still plenty on there.
Don't go too much higher than 1800 rpm on the polisher as it will soften the paint and make it kind of gummy.
Make sure the bottom is completely dry after wet sanding (like wait a day) as the finish will be dull if polished when damp.
I got the best shine when I tilted the pad a bit while polishing then light hand buff with terry towel
No need to muscle it or bear down, the polisher and compound do all the work.
It was much easier than I expected.
 

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I disagree that it is a soft paint...I sanded off last years and found it to quite hard when dry...in the water it wipes/cleans easy and seems soft nut really isn't.
Having cleaned many Vivid bottoms in the water, I can tell you that you can't touch the stuff without it "pluming" off the hull in very visible clouds. I assure you it is amongst the softest paints available.
 

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Not wanting to raise my waterline or do away with my white waterline as I've noticed many do down in tropical water, I painted it with white Vivid last time. So far this has worked pretty well and keeps the green slime and growth to a minimum. It is very soft and I'm sure could be easily sanded out to a smooth surface but if applied with a good brush, smooths out ok. Maybe applying with a smoother foam roller would eliminate having to sand the entire bottom. It also dries very quickly, so doing it before it's too hot is important.
 

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I use Vivid and have been very pleased. However, the idea that it may be fairly soft probably works to my advantage. When I stripped her down several years ago, I built up a base layer and do a rough sand and top coat each Spring. If it didn't sand/wear down well, it would become over built and I would be facing another full strip down.

I appreciate that some like to get more than one season out of their bottom paint, but I'm happier with a single top coat each year.

I would also love to see some real science on whether burnishing a paint like Vivid, which is relatively smooth as is, has any measurable impact on boat speed. I really doubt it.
 

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If racing, it probably makes a difference but for cruising, I doubt it's worth the effort to polish a bottom. I've always tried to apply the absolute minimum amount of bottom paint. The last couple of years, I've actually thinned it down slightly in order to make one gallon stretch to cover the bottom. It still works to stop growth even in tropical waters. Imo, a thick build-up is a total waste of paint and a sure way to eventually create a major job to scrape/sand/paint-remover it all off. I find that by sanding the surface smooth once every year, removing some paint in the process, it almost does away with ever having to do a major paint removal. A drywall pole sander (or else sometimes a DA sander) quickly sands off any growth that did not pressure-wash off when hauled and gives a clean, abraded surface for new paint. I'll likely do a new barrier coat soon but it will be the only time I ever expect to do a complete bottom paint removal.
 

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If racing, it probably makes a difference but for cruising, I doubt it's worth the effort to polish a bottom.
Hmmm. For anyone who cruises any distance I would think a smooth bottom would make a significant difference. A slightly higher speed can shave days off a crossing. But then...many cruisers don't care about extra days....except oddly they still brag about how fast their boat is...

I cruise and prefer a smooth bottom. I also wipe the bottom at least monthly and smooth paint cleans up far more completely than a rough paint job that gives the slime a place to hide out.
 

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A burnished bottom will save days on a passage, over unburnished? I will take that bet right now. No way. Not even on a circumnavigation. I will bet the speed diff, if any, is under a tenth of a knot and doesn't even appear on the speedo.

A full tenth of a knot on an Atlantic crossing would save a few hours.

We're comparing two identical hulls, both equally clean, one burnished, one not.
 

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Hmmm. For anyone who cruises any distance I would think a smooth bottom would make a significant difference. A slightly higher speed can shave days off a crossing. But then...many cruisers don't care about extra days....except oddly they still brag about how fast their boat is...

I cruise and prefer a smooth bottom. I also wipe the bottom at least monthly and smooth paint cleans up far more completely than a rough paint job that gives the slime a place to hide out.
If I was crossing the Pacific, I'd surely want the bottom as smooth as I could get it but most cruisers are not doing this. The difference over a couple of hundred miles between a normally smooth and a race-quality polished bottom is probably not even noticeable in the mix of all the factors that determine speed. I used to do a lot of canoe racing and can say that a highly polished bottom makes a considerable difference.....in seconds:)
 

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If I was crossing the Pacific, I'd surely want the bottom as smooth as I could get it but most cruisers are not doing this. The difference over a couple of hundred miles between a normally smooth and a race-quality polished bottom is probably not even noticeable in the mix of all the factors that determine speed. I used to do a lot of canoe racing and can say that a highly polished bottom makes a considerable difference.....in seconds:)
Someone who sails a couple of hundred miles per bottom job is a cruiser?

Practical Sailor posted info from Interlux that says the difference between a smooth bottom and a very smooth bottom is .225 knots. That's noticeable if two otherwise matched boats were sailing alongside each other. A boat length every minute or two. Five miles per day. So the difference between the typical roller job and very smooth will be significantly more. A half knot maybe? Probably more...plus the typical cruiser fouling. That's 10 percent of typical boat speed. I put maybe 5000 to 8000 miles on a bottom job. A half knot would be depressing.

Clean Bottom, Fast Bottom - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article
 

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Someone who sails a couple of hundred miles per bottom job is a cruiser?

Practical Sailor posted info from Interlux that says the difference between a smooth bottom and a very smooth bottom is .225 knots. That's noticeable if two otherwise matched boats were sailing alongside each other. A boat length every minute or two. Five miles per day. So the difference between the typical roller job and very smooth will be significantly more. A half knot maybe? Probably more...plus the typical cruiser fouling. That's 10 percent of typical boat speed. I put maybe 5000 to 8000 miles on a bottom job. A half knot would be depressing.

Clean Bottom, Fast Bottom - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article
If I even believe the quarter knot, that full Atlantic crossing (let alone a more common shorter passage) saves less than a half day, not days.

But I still don't buy it at all. My Vivid paint job just won't get all that much smoother by burnishing, IMO. I have seen globbed on ablatives jobs that dropped a patch here and there and were painted over. There might be a bigger delta from those bottoms and there certainly is, if you're going to compare a fouled bottom to a clean one.
 
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