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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend is sailing in Greece and posted the following to her Facebook page. I wonder if this is a rogue occurrence or have others experienced similar?

"We have been anchored at this lovely beach for several days. Tad and I spent about 5 hours in total cleaning up plastic bottles, caps, and other rubbish that had accumulated on the beach, just because we hate to see rubbish. Yesterday a Sunsail flotilla came in, and not only anchored practically on top of us, but decided to have a little BBQ ashore last night. This is how they left the beach! Admittedly, Tad went over and had a word with the flotilla skipper (boat pictured here) and they did some tidying up. The rest of the flotilla simply sat by and had their breakfasts on board watching! Is that what you pay for when sailing in a flotilla? Sunsail, you should be ashamed of yourselves!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good question. I will ask and then post the answer.

Apparently the skipper and mechanic on the lead boat were from Sunsail but it may have been a group of charterers who decided to sail together. Stand by........
 

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WOW! I would think that a tip/note from your friend to the local government in Greece might put SunSail on notice that this is not only unacceptable, but will not be tolerated...
 

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How the hell can you blame Sunsail for the dirty hanits of some charterers???


Mark
 

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Aaack! Don't go to the government. Their easy solution will be to simply outlaw cruising...or in Greece today a $200 per day user fee.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have sent the link to the person who was there and hopefully she can answer the more specific questions.

The reason I posted it was because I was curious as to whether others had experienced the same thing. I have seen similar from other charter boats and I suspect there is a difference in mindset about how a charterer treats the environment vs an owner (just as there is with how people treat hire cars more harshly than their own)

If it was simply a group chartering from Sunsail and there were no Sunsail staff in any supervisory capacity then it would be hard to blame the company. If they were captained charters with Sunsail captain and mechanic for the flotilla then I would say that, regardless of whether you can "blame" the company, there is a reputational risk.

When the details were posted to Sunsail, rather than responding and saying they were horrified, they simply deleted the post. This is not the best way to handle these things historically imho.

As I say, I am not blaming anyone except the litterbugs themselves. Although, if the company does not at least respond to say they are looking into it and do not condone littering, I would probably think less of them. But then I am probably not going to be a client so why should they care what I think........
 

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I don't think the phenomenon of drunk vacationers has anything specifically to do with SunSail. People can be jerks. How old was this crowd?

If it was a group, unrelated to SS, that hired a captain as a guide, he/she would not have been in a position of authority. More like a paid servant. Pays the same too. ;)

In your picture, I see fenders, a fender board and cooler. Did they really leave them on the beach and not have them aboard for turning the boat in? That usually comes out of one's deposit.

Also, there is a plastic chair seat that I'm having a hard time thinking came from one of the boats. Could some of this trash have been gathered from the beach, rather than brought there?

I'm with you, we should all have a great time and "leave nothing but footprints behind". I'm just not sure we know the whole story here.
 

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How the hell can you blame Sunsail for the dirty hanits of some charterers???


Mark
I don't believe that anyone is BLAMING Sunsail, but that does not mean that they shouldn't be held responsible for the behavior of their charter guests. The local authorities could find out who the captains were, and; go after them with fines, etc., let Sunsail know that they will be paying special attention to their boats, warn Sunsail not to charter to these pigs again, or any combination therof.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
So I checked......

A group of British charterers with a Sunsail captain and mechanic leading the group. The reaction of this captain to being asked not to leave rubbish all over the beach was initially hostile but then he sent the mechanic to bring back some of the rubbish and to bury the rest. My friend says that the beach was clear before the other group arrived because she had just spent several hours cleaning up the area that was subsequently littered. It is possible they sent a foraging party far and wide to find unexpected junk that could not possibly have been on a boat. The cooler looks like a throwaway item rather than part of the boat inventory so I would definitely believe that came from the boat. I agree that it seems bizarre to leave fenders and a fender board on the beach.

I don't think that the general issue has anything to do with Sunsail specifically. But in this instance, the flotilla consisted of their boats chartered and their skipper in charge. It must be hard to balance that role with being Chief Fun Officer as well and knowing that your review and potential tip may be at risk if you tell people that they need to clean up after themselves.

I am sure that if we were talking about a safety incident here, rather than littering, then nobody would say that the captain (employed by the charter company, presumably to protect their asset and their clients) should not be responsible, whether he was being treated like a paid servant or otherwise. In fact this would be the case whether he was a Sunsail captain or not. But nobody treats littering as seriously as safety - for understandable reasons.

However, I suspect that it would matter to every charter company that government officials responsible for renewing their business licenses think that their clients treat the environment with respect.

The good news is that they have now decided that they are interested in the issue.
 

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It's a shame those charter boats didn't have trash compactors aboard....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
From the Director of Marketing on Sunsail UK Facebook page:

"We were very sorry to see the photos from Robin. I have asked her for some more information so we can find out what happened and ensure it does not happen again. Many thanks"

Looks like Sunsail stepping up.......
 

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Good on your for getting SS attention. In the end, it seems this is really on the backs of the pukes that chartered the boats. Shouldn't be tolerated.

However, without further evidence of the hired Captain's involvement, I'm totally neutral on him/her. In fact, safety and litter ashore are explicitly different when it comes to their responsibility. Unlike what we think of as Captain, they are not in authority over the conduct of the crew ashore, only the vessel. From a public relations standpoint, SS would certainly appear badly and they've clearly figured that out. I'm only arguing the technical here. What if the Captain simply didn't approve of drinking alcohol and making a ruckus on the beach. Does he/she have the authority to ban it? Most charterers I know would tell them to piss off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You are, of course, right. Even if it were a safety question ashore, it would not be the responsibility of the Captain in his capacity as Captain.

I don't think it is a legal issue so much as a leadership question. Not all authority stems from rank.......
 

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You are, of course, right. Even if it were a safety question ashore, it would not be the responsibility of the Captain in his capacity as Captain.

I don't think it is a legal issue so much as a leadership question. Not all authority stems from rank.......
I agree.
 

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"I don't believe that anyone is BLAMING Sunsail, but that does not mean that they shouldn't be held responsible for the behavior of their charter guests. "

So when I see some tourists in a Hertz rental throwing trash out the window, I should blame Hertz for not...what? Doing a better job of screening the customers? Or failing to send along a scullery maid to clean up behind them?

Maybe Sunsail should require ASA 805 from all charterers. You know, the "Ecological Correctness" course?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
"I don't believe that anyone is BLAMING Sunsail, but that does not mean that they shouldn't be held responsible for the behavior of their charter guests. "

So when I see some tourists in a Hertz rental throwing trash out the window, I should blame Hertz for not...what? Doing a better job of screening the customers? Or failing to send along a scullery maid to clean up behind them?

Maybe Sunsail should require ASA 805 from all charterers. You know, the "Ecological Correctness" course?
If you were giving someone a ride in your car and they wound down the window and started throwing trash out, would you ask them to stop and think twice about whether you would give them a ride again?

Take it a step further, if you were a paid chauffeur and your client committed an offence, would you just turn a blind eye and say nothing?

Sunsail is not to blame for the loutish behaviour. How their captain chose to react is, however, their responsibility. I would hope that I had the sense to recognise that my reputation would be affected by the actions of my clients if I did nothing to rectify the situation afterwards.
 

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"If you were giving someone a ride in your car"
Ah, but that's not at all the same. If I'm giving them a ride, I'm there to supervise or chastise them.
If Sunsail charters out boats, plural? Sunsail "corporate" isn't there. Sunsail's local base management isn't there. And for all we know, the guy who was there, isn't a full time Sunsail employee, much less interested in doing anything to reduce their TIP from the charterers.

Can't fairly blame Sunsail (corporate) for actions they probably have never been informed of, nor had control over. What you can do is inform them that there's a problem, and see what they have to say. For all you know, they may send a clean-up crew out twice a month to keep destination beaches clean. But we wouldn't know, without asking them. Or suggesting it.
 
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