[kwaltersmi]

What can you tell me about an anonymous boat by these specifications:

LOA (on deck): 26'8"
LWL (waterline): 20'5"
Displacement: 7000 lbs
Ballast: 2900 lbs
Beam: 9'10"
Sail area: 323 sq. ft.
Draft: 3'11"

I'm curious about what relatively unbiased opinions I'll get by not naming the boat in question.

 

[tommays]

old shoe that wont sail to weather

 

[Boasun]

From the specs you can determine the speed of the vessel, the capsize ratio.
The comfort ratio and so forth.
After you have worked up these numbers you go and view the boat for yourself and sit in it walk from one end of the cabin to the other. Walk around the deck and if the boat is in the water, you get a feel of how the boat moves.
But it is still on how your own feelings are about that particular vessel.

 

[Valiente]

^ ^ ^

Exactly. The specs say it's a beamy, heavy and somewhat shallow draft vessel for the circa 27 foot range, unless it's got a centerboard or is a small full keeler...but it's the same beam as my 33 footer...If this is a guessing game, so I'll guess it's an older boat, pre-1980.

 

[sailingdog]

It sounds like a beamy full keel, shoal draft, heavy displacement boat...heavier and beamier than a Cape Dory 26... probably very slow...

 

[poopdeckpappy]

What can you tell me about an anonymous boat by these specifications:

LOA (on deck): 26'8"
LWL (waterline): 20'5"
Displacement: 7000 lbs
Ballast: 2900 lbs
Beam: 9'10"
Sail area: 323 sq. ft.
Draft: 3'11"

I'm curious about what relatively unbiased opinions I'll get by not naming the boat in question.

My unbiased and relatively inexperienced opinion would be; Heavy for its size, too beamy for its size, underpowered for its weight.

I can only base this on a boat I had of simular LOA and LWL. Our Displacement was half, ballast was half, beam was 2 foot less, sail area was equal and draft was 1.7 foot more., it was a very quick boat and a blast to sail

 

[poopdeckpappy]

^ ^ ^

If this is a guessing game, so I'll guess it's an older boat, pre-1980.

I would guess post 80's

 

[GeorgeB]

Running the Numbers

I took the opportunity to run the numbers and this is what I get:

DSP to Length = 368 (200-300 is "cruising")

<O
Sail Area to DSP Ratio = 14.2 (Most boats are between 16-18)
<O
Hull Speed = 6.05 kts

<OVelocity Ratio = 1.05 (under powered is less than 1)

LOA to Beam = 2.72 ("fine" is 3.5-4)

Capsize Risk = 1.99 (over 2 cannot compete in ocean races)

Comfort Ratio = 22.09 (This is in the range of racers, cruisers are 60+)<O

The LOA/Beam ratio indicated a little "tubbiness", but probably is this way to accommodate an interior. To get a "fine" hull, you would need to decrease beam by a foot or more which would probably "loose" the cabin. Where you are getting killed is the relatively small rig (small sail area) in relationship to the displacement. This is going to be a slow boat. The capsize risk and comfort ratios are marginal again, due to the high DSP to length ratio and smaller hull form (length and DSP). So how did I do? What boat is this? A Pacific Seacraft?

<OValiente, can you give me your racing boat's data for comparison?

 

[JohnRPollard]

What can you tell me about an anonymous boat by these specifications:

LOA (on deck): 26'8"
LWL (waterline): 20'5"
Displacement: 7000 lbs
Ballast: 2900 lbs
Beam: 9'10"
Sail area: 323 sq. ft.
Draft: 3'11"

I'm curious about what relatively unbiased opinions I'll get by not naming the boat in question.

My initial thought were along the lines of a Bruce Roberts Spray 27, or Tom Thumb 26, maybe even a catboat. But most of them would come in with longer waterlines.

She must be a beamy boat (our 31' has the same beam), with longish overhangs. Possibly a double-ender, but they weren't usually so beamy.

The specs certainly don't suggest a club racer....

 

[JohnRPollard]

What boat is this? A Pacific Seacraft?

Har har. Not a chance.

 

[sailingdog]

I don't think Pacific Seacraft ever designed a boat like this one... .most of theirs are fairly decent in terms of performance and numbers...this one is pretty whacked.

 

[GeorgeB]

You know, in keeping the name secret, the boat is either going to be something really good or really bad. The relatively small rig had me going the Crealock direction with the Danna, but I just had a thought – could it be a Catalina 27? The beam made it too wide to be a trailer sailer. Either or, the design problem here is stuffing a large enough cabin to have a head, sink, stove, and sleeping for four and still be around 27’. Something has to give. I do not think there is a true “cruiser-racer” out there in that size range. To get the performance that the ratios suggest, a boat that small needs to be more of a day sailor. Think the comparison of say, a J24 and a Catalina 25. That is why I am curious about Valiente’s dimensional data. I want to run the numbers of a racer.

 

[RXBOT]

Production boat, similar numbers are not that hard to find. Look at a Catalina 270SD 1999 . Also 25-27 1/4 tonners usually were beamy but had SA -DISP at least 15 usually.

 

[GeorgeB]

Just ran the numbers for a Catalina 27 and they do not fit. Try again. Any other suggestions?

 

[kwaltersmi]

Very interesting responses indeed! I'd give up the boat model/make, but I'm enjoying the speculation and analysis. She's actually a boat I'm considering and will be looking at in person tomorrow. I wanted the "unbiased" opinions from fellow Sailnetters, and so far so good!

 

[scottyt]

my 27 footer is 27 2 long and has a lwl of 22 feet, so this boat has long over hangs, my boat also is 9 3 wide so it is wider than 83 hunter 27, with longer over hangs. it also has 60 square feet less sail then i do.

the funny part is my boat has a 3 3 draft with 3200 lbs of ballast, this one has more draft, and less ballast and thats normal. its over all weight is also 500 lbs less than mine.

i would say its a 70's or early 80 cruiser, on the lines of as hunter ( we know its not by my numbers ) catalina or oday, or columbia but i would guess not newer

 

[Mimsy]

I wanna play! Here are the specs of the boat we currently have in escrow, awaiting survey and sea trial.

(No cheating CD!)
LOA- 41'10
LWL- 34'7
Beam- 12'9
Displacement-21,500
Draft- 5'10
Ballast- 8,870

(I love this one, the ARE loves this one, here's hoping the surveyor loves it as well so we can be done already!)
Sail Area- 800 sq ft.

 

[GeorgeB]

Kwalter – Just to check, do you have the dimensional data correct? To “build” you a hotter boat, I need to shave a foot off of the beam, trim out a thousand pounds, and increase the sail area by 75 sf. I don’t know what it would look like, but the ratios would like it. But seriously, the design problem here is “cramming” in that cabin to make a cruiser in 27 feet. Anything in that design parameter is goining to run into the same problems, number wise. If you’d like, send me the dimensional data of some “comp” boats and we will run the comparisons which will give you a better indication. Give me the PHRF and I can tell you your Pacific Cup rating. Unfortunately, I have a bug in my stability formulas so I can’t tell you your offshore ratings.

 

[poopdeckpappy]

How about something along the lines of a Com-Pac type cruiser

 

[GeorgeB]

Here are your numbers Minsy. O.K., now tell me what “ARE” stands for. Also, you will have to eventually tell me what your boat is (so I can update my database). Length is increased in the “middle” of a boat (not the ends) so it takes a certain amount of LOA before a boat grows into its ratios. Congratulations Minsy, it’s a cruiser! (your moment of inertia is the classic number for cruisers)

DSP to Length = 232.1 (200-300 is “cruising”)
<OSail Area to DSP Ratio = 16.6 (Most boats are between 16-18)
<OHull Speed = 7.88 kts
<OVelocity Ratio = 1.07 (under powered is less than 1)
<OLOA to Beam = 3.28 (“fine” is 3.5-4)
<OCapsize Risk = 1.77 (over 2 cannot compete in ocean races)
<OComfort Ratio = 30.48 (cruisers are 60+)

<OScottyT, your Hunter numbers aren’t bad either albeit, you do suffer a little from the “under 30’ syndrome”. Your numbers are almost a scaled down version of my 34. I’m assuming that this is one of those Chernubli (sp) Hunters? Do you race, and if so, how well do you do?

<OOnce again, this is not a Catalina of any stripe (I’ve checked). Nor do I think it is a Com-Pac on the account of the beam dimension.<O