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What type of Keel do you prefer....

11K views 95 replies 36 participants last post by  harmonic 
#1 ·
With all of the different types of keels available, I'm curious to know which are the most popular amongst all of you sailors out there... :cut_out_animated_em
 
#31 ·
We draw 6.5ft, which is not a lot in the grand scheme of things. However, there are often anchorages or mooring fields, where the best tucked in spots are the exclusive domain of the stinkpots and cats. We just convince ourselves we're pretty cool, when we have to anchor out among the schooners or the big dogs from the New York Yacht Club. :)

We did anchor once, in the outer harbor of Edgartown, among the New York Yacht Club summer flotilla. Our puny little 54ft looked like a dinghy among the city of multi-deck yachts, lit up like a skyline. I wish I had a pic. Hilarious.
 
#34 ·
But I have this vision "What if you were anchored in Porto Fino on your 160' mega yacht. The crew was ashore and you were sitting on the stern, nice glass of Montrachet in your hand and,,,,you were depressed. What now?

Doesn't, have anything to do with draft but it came to mind reading about feeling your boat was small.

In my experience you can get by just fine almost anywhere with 6'3" draft.
 
#37 ·
In my experience you can get by just fine almost anywhere with 6'3" draft.
Yes, but you are on the left coast. On the right coast, it helps to have less draft for some of our crowded anchorages. This poor fellow needed to draw less than 4' at the edge of the Cuttyhunk Town mooring field. Note the mooring ball off his stern. (BTW, he didn't need a tow, he waited for the tide and took a mooring in deeper water.)
 

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#85 ·
While it wont show its advantage in computer calculations, a bit shallower draft can have huge advantage in the reality of cruising something you don't fully appreciate if you don't cruise much. The advantage is all out of porportion to any microscopic improvement in sailing performance.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Your keel type would be a keel-centerboard with a spade rudder. In this case the centerboard is housed in a shoal draft fin keel. (The profile is a little misleading because if I remember correctly there was a skeg aft of the keel which housed the prop. shaft.)

This configuration was pretty common in the late 1960's and beginning of the 1970's. Probably the nicest of these was the S&S designed Tartan 34 but Charlie Morgan was about as good as the came when it came to designing keel-centerboard designs.

I have always been a big fan of this configuration. It is one of my favorite configurations for long distance cruising. With the board down this configuration generally went to weather well. Downwind the board could be raised to improve performance, yet the residual fin and separate rudder produced great control.

Another big advantage is to be able to partially raise the CB and balance out weather helm making it easier on the helmsman or autopilot.

I also like the ability to retract the board and slip into shallower channels or corners of harbors. It was thought that these boats did well in extreme conditions with the board raised reducing the impact of surface sheer in large breaking waves.

If there is a downside to this configuration it is that it is hard to get the ballast as low as a fixed fin, and so these boats typically exhibit a mix of being a little less stable than a fin keel version, having more wetted surface in order to increase the size of the fin to hold more ballast lower, and/or heavier since they need more ballast to make up for the shallower position of the ballast. They also require a little bit more maintenance but that usually is not to onerous. There is the whole mythology about clunking centerboards but I have not experienced that on boats this size, but that does not mean that clunking does not happen on some models of keel-centerboard designs.

I hope that clears that up for you,
Jeff
 
#47 ·
Ok, OK!
It depends is the correct answer. Now have fun with that.

My mooring, depending on tide, is about 85' off the beach and in 50' of water. I could care a less about draft. In the PNW we scream and crash tack when the depth meter reads 25'.
Draft is and always will be a personal problem. How do I know ? Trust me.

Ski:
Here you go. Maybe this will refresh your memory:

Custom design projects by Bob Perry

In no particular order:
25' Choate built grp Cutter for Dr. Rob
HEATHER 41' strip planked Two Tonner for John Buchan
IRISH ROSE 41' grp Two Tonner for Dr. Dennis Donahue
UNION JACK 24' Cadranell built cold molded Quarter Tonner for Mr. Bob Cadranell
50' Amazon built steel cutter for Dr. Buster family
NIGHT RUNNER 41' Lange built cold molded cutter for Mr. Doug Fryer
LOON 41' Brower built cold molded DE for Dr. Sandy Bill
61' Tyler built grp sloop for Mr. Stu Miller
60 alu cutter for Mr. Ralph Jersby
MARLIN 60' Folmers built alu cutter for Mr. Bjorn von Numers
YONI 50' Jespersen built alu cutter for Dr. Daryl Dalhgard
STARBUCK 56' Choate built grp sloop for Mr. Bill Clute
FOXFIRE 54' Choate built grp sloop for Mr. Dennis Howarth
CHRISTINE 75' Choate built grp power yacht for Mr. Mike Campbell
FREE RANGE CHICKEN 58' Westerly built grp Cruising sloop for Mr. Bruce Anderson
STEALTH CHICKEN 56' Westerly built IMS sloop for Mr. Bruce Anderson
CAPAZ 47' Westerly built grp ketch for the Plant family
Amazon 50' steel sloop for Dr. Don Dickerson
Amazon 50' steel sloop for Dr. Buster
JAKATAN 42' Jespersen built cold molded schooner for Mr. Jeff Hawkins
PACHENA 50' Jespersen built cold molded sloop for Mr. John Newton
AMATI 41' Schooner Creek built wood composite sloop for Paul and Lorrie Scott
ELESIUM 70' Choate built ULDB cruiser for Folvig family
Rosetta 29 Schooner Creek built cold molded runabout
FOXTROT 69' Jones-Goodel built grp Crusing Sloop for Mr. James Ray
TANGO 69' Philbrooks built grp sloop for Mr. James Ray
CATARI 63' Pacific Seacraft built ketch for Mr. Paul Serini
BULLETPROOF Betts built 43' carbon cutter for Mr. Lucky
MOBISLE 54' Westerly built composite Sloop for Mr. Dave Rutter
SATANI 116' Fautasi racing canoe for the AOA Village American Samoa
ICON 66' Martin built racing sloop for Mr. Dick Robbins
MERIDIAN 70' Miler built ULDB sloop for Mr. Chuck Schiff
FRANCIS LEE 61' NWSWBB DE daysailer for my friend Kim Bottles and family
LUCKY GAL 44' Betts built composite sloop for my friend Mr. Dave Cooper
KIYI 36 Miller built Maxii-trailerable sloop for Dr. Dick Philbrrick
Lobster Boat 36' Brower built cold moldced power boat for Mr. John Goodlad
INBOX 40' Schooner Creek built container cruising sloop for Mr. Bernie Blum
Fishboat 25' alu catamaran for a fisherman
LITTLE WING 54' Shaw Boats built grp catamaran for Mr. David Dow
Hawaii Tri 60 composite trimaran for Dr. Jeff Strange
ILLUSION 63' Howdy Bailey built alu cutter for Mr. Jeff Small
Baker Sled 70' Choate built ULDB cruising sloop for Mr. Bill Baker
APACHE WEST 49' FC ketch for Mr. William Powell Jr.
SUNFLOWER 43' grp DE cutter for Mr. Al Liggett
Knepper 26 Knepper built cold molded sloop for Mr. John Knepper
WILD HORSES 63' Betts built alu and composite cutter for Mr. Tullus Gordon
IBOLD 45 DE. Grp cutter foir Mr. Per Ibold
CONCERTO 43' Lyman-Morse built DE power yacht for Mr. Ken Sawyer
Bell 36 grp daysailer for Mr. Jeff Bell
TSUNAMI Anguilla 28 racing sloop for Dr. Carl Richardson
ECLIPSE 43' Lange built grp cutter for Dr. Pete MacClean
Lechler 47 47' Luke built alu ketch for Mr. Howard Lechler
LITTLE PALM ISLAND 40' Commuter lauych built by SCHOONER CREEK for LPIR
GEEZER 30 cold molded daysailer built by Roy Dunbar Boatworks for Roy Dunbar
9.5' custom dinghy for Mr. Paul Serini
 
#48 ·
Mr Curmudgeon, Very clear ! A most excellent explanation! I do appreciate it. Now I will have something to say when folks ask about her. She does point about 10 degrees better with the board down. I did some sailing tests one day, out on the river. No problem to use it. Wind it up, let it down. Thanks again... kevin
 
#55 · (Edited)
Bob, This article came up when I searched Pogo 30 beaching: New boat: Pogo 30

"Southern France is known for its sunny beaches, and the yacht designers at Finot-Conq must have had those destinations in mind when they designed the beachable Pogo 30. The 30-footer, a fractionally rigged racer-cruiser built by Chantier Naval Structures, has an optional hydraulically operated keel, an 8-foot ballasted fin that rotates back under the boat in shallow water giving the boat a 3-foot shoal draft. Cruisers can sail to a beach, raise the keel, and then "park" on optional aluminum beaching legs."



I guess the legs are necessary to keep the rudders clear of the bottom.

Steve
 
#58 ·
hmmmm 25' to tack in.......

I'm usually 8-10', but like all things great and small "IT DEPENDS" upon where in the salish sea I am. Some places 25' is a good thing to tack, as a boat length later it will be 20, 15, 10 an 5' in 4 boat lengths.......as you hit a sand bar, rock called blakely or some other equal. Other places is can be 10-12' for a mile or so............

Mr Perry,

Did ALL them boats have a 6'3" draft?


Did not think so! LOLOL

This is a day for record books, I out did Mr Perry.........will have to start losing streak all over again tomorrow tho.....

Dang it. Will blame that fuzzy wombat character for this.......

Marty
 
#61 ·
Like too anchor outside channel at Cuttyhunk . Good spot directly across from entrance with plenty of water and buzzard bay chop doesn't get in there. Dinghy over to Cuttyhunk Fishing club on the other side or walk over the hill and feel like a president. Lots of keeper strippers there and a lefty deciever works great there. Use my Spey rod to get to third wave. Never disappoints.
 
#62 ·
I do remember the anchorage outside the harbor. Well protected from the sou'westerly and a short dinghy ride inside. Inside always seemed too claustrophobic to me. When things go bad in there it gets real ugly real quick.

Lyme disease is rampant there. Take precautions!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#65 ·
I guess we're on a bit of thread drift, but Cutty is a good popular destination where draft will limit your options. Even the closest moorings to shore in the outer harbor, are pretty snug with anything over 6ft. The town moorings in the inner harbor are LOA limited and the other options inside are draft limited.

As for claustrophobia, I completely agree with the inner mooring field being was too up close and personal. Depending on your neighbors, that can be great or awful. It must be the most popular overnight stop along the entire New England coastline. You get all kinds. I'll avoid the stereotyping, but they are pretty clear.
 
#69 ·
I guess we're on a bit of thread drift, but Cutty is a good popular destination where draft will limit your options. Even the closest moorings to shore in the outer harbor, are pretty snug with anything over 6ft. The town moorings in the inner harbor are LOA limited and the other options inside are draft limited.

As for claustrophobia, I completely agree with the inner mooring field being was too up close and personal. Depending on your neighbors, that can be great or awful. It must be the most popular overnight stop along the entire New England coastline. You get all kinds. I'll avoid the stereotyping, but they are pretty clear.
Draft and Cuttyhunk, perhaps isn't that much of a thread drift. Most places on the coast, draft matters little. A few decades ago, we cruised the Bahamas with 4' draft with friends in a boat, with 6' draft.

We had a great time in many harbors together. Then there were times when we went off on our own route, often sailing through the shallow but vast banks to secluded anchorages and beaches.

In the end, we both had a great time. We just saw a different Bahamas.

In Cuttyhunk, I can attest to the claustrophobic feeling in the mooring field. That could be great, at times.

The anchorage in the pond we use with our 4' draft is a different world. Of many days and nights spent on the hook - like this shot looking back at the mooring field - we felt we had the pond to ourselves.



Last time we were there, we had our daughter and her room mate (from college; both recently graduated) spend several days anchored in the pond. We explored the island in the cooler hours of the day and spent the hot mid day, swimming, dinghy sailing and paddle boarding and exploring the pond and beaches.

This shot was taken out in the anchorage as the sun sets(look closely you can see another shoal draft boat anchored to windward- rare).

The Cuttyhunk Raw Bar boat delivers to shoal draft boats. :) We ordered a few dozen Cuttyhunk Oysters while we were there. My daughter and I love oysters(she's in the Maine flannel). The Cuttyhunk's are some the best we've tasted! And they had fresh scallops that were cooked up.

 
#66 ·
Really like the set up Hannah2 has on his Boreal. Centerboard and two daggerboards way aft. Like the idea of dropping a daggerboard when running and surfing. Now need to change the sensitivity on the AP when doing that so use more juice. If big ones feel safer hand steering. Would think with that set up and daggerboard all the way down and centerboard all the way up even a wind vane would have no trouble.
 
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