[Frogwatch]

OK, I'm bored with the Bahamas, after awhile all the islands look alike.
So, sell my old 28' S2 and instead buy an older boat in the UK such as a 25' Colvic Watson motorsailor. Then cruise the canals of the UK and Ireland. Then across the Channel and cruise the waterways of Europe such as the Rhine to Danube down to the Black Sea, Back to France across France and back to the UK.
What is max draft for this?
What small boat could somebody suggest?
Other thoughts?

 

[flandria]

"The Islands won't look all the same" over there, for sure... You will, of course, do one heck of a lot of motoring. Consider the sometimes very strong currents on the Rhine and Danube, you will need a vessel and engine strong enough to deal with that to make reasonable progress upstream, and maneuvrability downstream. Then, in the Black Sea and Med back to France, you're back (I assume) to sailing. So, yes, a motorsailor of decent size seems to me a good compromise. Try and find a vessel with a mast mounted in a tabernacle so you can strike the mast in place or you have all that gear to worry about just to carry the mast along with you, without use, for a very long time. All told, your overall height above water level will probably be less than the height of fully laden freighters, so clearance to bridges (especially on the Rhine-Danube Canal) should not be an issue.

The scheme, as you call it, has tremendous diversity. The one thing I would check on is that you have a vessel registered in the EU (where you plan to buy it) and still check on entry requirements in all the countries you will be visiting - all in the context of traveling with a non-EU passport. Cannot help you there.

Good luck!

 

[Frogwatch]

I don't mind motoring but cost of fuel is much higher over there so I'd like sails to help out.
I wonder if anybody over there would be interested in a trade, use of my boat in the Abacos in winter for use of their boat in Europe in summer for a few weeks. It would have to be someone with low expectations about comfort as my boat has few amenities.

 

[joethecobbler]

get a diesel engine and run it on used cooking oil to defray fuel costs. :

 

[miatapaul]

There are some spots in Europe that are not too expensive, but most are very expensive. As I understand it now you keep your boat in the Bahamas and fly over to use it. (at least I think I recall you saying that was what you did) Flights will be much more, marinas are much much more, and of course it takes more time to get there cutting into the time there. But if you can take off for a couple of years it might be a good plan. Seems like the Eastern Med is really nice but becoming more expensive.

You might want to PM Jim H, though he has not been active here since 2012. He keeps a boat in the UK as an American Citizen. Also Sequitor has a canal boat in Europe.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...lated/105383-zonder-zorg-sequel-sequitor.html

The biggest issue is the Schengen (European Union) will only issue 6 month visas. I believe they are pretty strict about showing savings/income/resources to support yourself while there as well. I am not sure though as I have not been to Europe since 1987. But I know the visa issue has really made it hard on cruisers trying to do Europe.

 

[Rhapsody-NS27]

I know of a couple that cruised the canals of France in a Norsea 27 that is listed to have a draft of nearly 4'. They also sent their mast ahead to the med where they then sailed to Spain.

I lived in Germany for a couple years and saw the Rhine to be full of commercial traffic, barges, tugs, etc. Not much room for serious sailing. Likely to fight currents too. I would think you'd need more motor than sail for that trip.

 

[flandria]

When on the rivers and canals you must assume that you will never sail, even if you have an easy mast-up assembly: currents, bridges, lack of sea room, traffic, locks, not to speak of very narrow wind-envelopes. Thus, any hope of minimizing your fuel consumption will be limited to crossing the Irish Sea, the Channel, in the Black Sea and Mediterranean.

 

[capta]

The biggest issue is the Schengen (European Union) will only issue 6 month visas. I believe they are pretty strict about showing savings/income/resources to support yourself while there as well. I am not sure though as I have not been to Europe since 1987. But I know the visa issue has really made it hard on cruisers trying to do Europe.

This is INCORRECT! If you are an American, you are allowed 90 days in the EU out of every 180. That means you (not necessarily your boat) must be outside the EU for 90 days. If on a boat and you wish to remain aboard, that leaves you the north coast of Africa, or the Adriatic, which I understand is very expensive for cruising.
My wife would very much like to cruise the Med (oh how ignorant the youthful are) but it's hardly worth while for two TransAts if all you get is 90 days.
I have heard tell of many people ignoring Schengen, staying under the radar, so to speak, but should one get caught and if the authorities wish, they can impound your boat and repatriate you to your country of origin, with the proceeds from the sale of your boat.

 

[flandria]

"If you are an American, you are allowed 90 days in the EU out of every 180"

This observation - and a number of others regarding issues ranging from permission required to visit Palmyra Atoll, to cruising permits in the USVI, Australian regs re: vessel contamination (?) etc... prompts me to ask if anyone (individual or corporation) has made an effort to create a comprehensive/authoritative website or publication to assist people in the numerous requirements and restrictions that sailors face when leaving or entering a country?....

 

[hellosailor]

Froggie-
I think one of the Pardey's books goes into the limits of the French canal system. Since there are tunnels as well, you are constrained as to draft, and width, and cabin height. I'd expect a modest 25' boat to have no problem but there must be some web presence for some canal authority that cites the limits. I think they were in 28' and had some snug moments.

flandria-
www.noonsite.com
Jimmy Cornell has done a huge job trying to compile everything in one place that way.

 

[capta]

"If you are an American, you are allowed 90 days in the EU out of every 180"

This observation - and a number of others regarding issues ranging from permission required to visit Palmyra Atoll, to cruising permits in the USVI, Australian regs re: vessel contamination (?) etc... prompts me to ask if anyone (individual or corporation) has made an effort to create a comprehensive/authoritative website or publication to assist people in the numerous requirements and restrictions that sailors face when leaving or entering a country?....

Doyle's cruising guides for the Caribbean have this information on each island nation he covers. Very comprehensive and includes fees as well as overtime charges if apropos. It would be my guess cruising guides for other areas include the same information.

 

[Omatako]

Surely the best website for this type of info is still Noonsite.com?

I haven't been there lately and I've never looked at Europe on it but a quick look just now indicates it covers most of Europe. Also I don't know how current it is these days, I heard somewhere that Jimmy Cornell is not involved there any more?

 

[misfits]

OK, I'm bored with the Bahamas, after awhile all the islands look alike.

That's a problem I wouldn't mind having :laugher

 

[JonEisberg]

OK, I'm bored with the Bahamas, after awhile all the islands look alike.

Just curious, how much of the Bahamas have you actually explored beyond the Abacos? I'm not sure I have enough time left in my life, to ever get tired of poking around down there

So, sell my old 28' S2 and instead buy an older boat in the UK such as a 25' Colvic Watson motorsailor. Then cruise the canals of the UK and Ireland. Then across the Channel and cruise the waterways of Europe such as the Rhine to Danube down to the Black Sea, Back to France across France and back to the UK.
What is max draft for this?
What small boat could somebody suggest?
Other thoughts?

Sounds like an awesome plan, to me. I'd kill to get into the European canals some day, and a trip down the Danube would be incredible...

Jack van Ommen on FLEETWOOD did it over 2 summers a few years ago... Scroll down thru his blog entries, I believe he began the trip from the Netherlands in the summer of 2010. I think he had some engine trouble that delayed his transit, and had to haul the boat in Romania for the winter, resuming the trip the following summer...

Fleetwoods Circumnavigation - Jack Van Ommens Travels

 

[TQA]

Noonsite is the best source for check in formalities worldwide.

The Schengen rules make long term cruising in Europe a bit of nightmare but doable. Remember UK and Ireland are NOT Schengen. With computerization flying under the radar is harder. Study the rules given in Noonsite.

Exploring British waterways is best done in a narrowboat. Narrowboat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People have picked a calm day and motored a narrowboat across the channel to France but some have not made it. Better to ship it.

A good resource for France is Cruising French Waterways, Rivers and Canals by Boat or Barge.

A narrowboat can go on all the canals but the French canals are wider. Might be underpowered for some of the up river passages. See Rhone.

A good heating system is ESSENTIAL. I would recommend being as far south as possible in winter.

 

[miatapaul]

This is INCORRECT! If you are an American, you are allowed 90 days in the EU out of every 180. That means you (not necessarily your boat) must be outside the EU for 90 days. If on a boat and you wish to remain aboard, that leaves you the north coast of Africa, or the Adriatic, which I understand is very expensive for cruising.
My wife would very much like to cruise the Med (oh how ignorant the youthful are) but it's hardly worth while for two TransAts if all you get is 90 days.
I have heard tell of many people ignoring Schengen, staying under the radar, so to speak, but should one get caught and if the authorities wish, they can impound your boat and repatriate you to your country of origin, with the proceeds from the sale of your boat.

Yea, I meant to say 90 days, for some reason it translated to six months when typing. Of course that does not include the UK. Heck can you even complete the French canals in 90 days? At least if you want to see much seems it would be tight.

 

[hellosailor]

Paul-
" 90 days, for some reason it translated to six months "
You've got to watch out for those metric calendar conversion errors, they're easy to make.
(VBG)