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I sail on a 3 mile lake and a 35 mile lake in upstate NY. I'm selling my beloved vintage Flying Scot hull #255 for a new experience in overnight sailing. My priorities include: Under $6k, at least 6 knots, Swing or Shoal Keel, Trailer Sailer, Solo Rigging and Sailing, Used, but well kept, Minimal Maintenance.

I'm considering the following 20-23'ers: Catalina, Precision, Starwind, Aquarius, Seaward, Rhodes, Sirius, Chrysler, Paceship, San Juan, Buccaneer, North American, or the lighter weight: Santana, Spindrift, Venture, US, Merit, Ensenada or Balboa, Freedom, Nimble, Compac. I'd consider the Kells 23 if I could find one -- only 200 built.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences that may help me make the right choice? (Please include any known common design flaws with any of the above.) Thanks for your help. -- Dean
 

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I know I will take some heat for this but---
MacGregor 25 you might find for that price.
I'm into mine about $2,000.
Looked in storage yards and got it for 1500.

If I had my druthers I would opt for the 26S.
here is a vid. Mac26S_PromoCD.wmv
 

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Hi Dean,
Good to see your post. I remember you from Whitney Point. I have the bright yellow Rebel. It will be on the market in the spring by the way. I'm currently working in Oneida and bought a Cal 25 on Oneida Lake last year. When the weather breaks I may be able to do some sniffing around the area up there. Drop me a line sometime. KGS one one three at Earthlink dot net.
Kevin
 

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You can get a really good matilda 20 or 23 with trailer for under $6K if you shop north of the border. I have always liked the accomodations of the matilda over the smaller cats macgregors, etc.

Or how about a Tanzer? Good owner's group, good spares availability, good performance, good value.
 

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Precision 21, 23, Catalina 22, O'day 192 (mine's for sale:) O'day 222, O'day 23, these are my favorite modern trailerables, all easy to rig, all reasonably quick (have had my 192 to 7kts).

I really like the Precisions as they are very well built, and STILL built so support is there, and they have foam cored decks so maintenance is easier. All the O'days I looked at were solidly built but suffer from some quality issues in the last year or so they were made (1989) mine is one of the last boats they made (wasn't even finished, was bought at bankruptcy auction) has several voids in the deck gelcoat, the hull seems fine though.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks

Thanks for the input gang. I like the Precisions, but they may be a bit overpriced for my wallet. I've ruled out a Macgregor -- unless it's a 22' Venture. I'm undecided on how heavy or accommodating I want to go. If increased size and/or amenities means more challenges in single-handed rigging and sailing, then I think I'll opt for smaller. To eMKay: I hadn't heard of an O'day 192 until you posted your comment, but I would likely choose the foot longer 19'. To bljones: I found the Matilda interesting. Although, it would be rare to find one in really good shape, you had me reading all about it. To kgs113, I remember you and your Rebel on Whitney Point lake, and I will be in touch.
 

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BTW, some good trailer sailer comparisons and reviews here:

1986 SBJ SAILBOAT SEA TRIALS, page 3


Nice tip, the website itself is not very pretty but it's simple and it has some interesting stuff in there worth checking out.
 

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I bought a 25' Venture for learning and training. We've yet to put it in the water, and it needed work, but we're going to be on some rather small lakes with it.

Not sure when you plan to get yours but I'll let you know how it sails when we get her in the water in April.
 

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Check out the S2 6.9 It's a fast 22 footer, fractional rig, lead daggerboard keel (no banging), well built, easy to trailer, and will sail circles around most, if not all of the above mentioned boats. I sail an S2 6.7 which is an earlier, racier version of the same hull.
 

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I had a Cat 22 for a 1st trailer boat. About $2K with trailer. Sailed it around the North Channel and home. What I liked was the user support. I knew literally nothing about sail being a power boater for years. The users had lots of info, upgrade ideas, parts locations etc. Lots of sailing advice, racing stuff etc. For any used boat, I think this is an important idea if you need lots of help.
 

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Finger Lakes? I learned to sail there, and it will have some bearing on your choice. For instance, of your listed boats I'd cross off the Bayliner/Buccs, the Balboa/E20, Chrysler, Nimbles,and the Compacs right off; summer winds in NY inland lakes are flukey and very light, and those boats will not move atall, atall. A quick, lively ride is choice: US, Sirius, San Juans, Catalinas, S2s, and Schock/Santanas hold down the lighter end.

Are you looking at overnights, or more extended camping? How many berths? Galley, or camp stove? How many people will you have in the cockpit?

Next question: would you be thinking of occasional trips to the Great Lakes, Champlain, or the Eastern seaboard? Cuz then I'd probably cross off the Santanas and San Juans -- not keen in big square chop. The Sirius is outstanding, but getting one for under $6k is a big ask. Compacs would be fine. Precision and Merit excellent for either venue, but expensive and a bit overkill on a 3-mile lake!

Get a boat that points very well: beating up Seneca or Cayuga Lake (40 mi long, 1 mi wide) is hard work. OTOH, prevailing summer southerlies and the lakes' N-S direction means nice long spinnaker runs!

I hope to bring our SJ21 to the Finger Lakes some day -- it would be a marvelous sailing boat on those waters (with the genoa). But the interior verges on useless, the equal of a two-man tent. C22 is only 6" longer but massively bigger below.
 

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Skip Freedoms. I love them, however they are not light wind boats and they don't point well.
 

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I'd also have to lean towards the Precisions. I used to have a Precision 23 and absolutely loved it - it handles great, performs and is comfortable. It's not as comfortable as a Hunter or Catalina of the same size, but I'd take its construction and handling any day. You can find some used at Precision Sailboats - For Sale
 

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Best Trailor-Sailor Value

Dean: As another writer mentioned, the O'Day 23 would be an excellent choice and there should be a few around as the 23 was manufactered for about 8 years (between 1977 and 1985). I would stay away from the O'Day three digit models produced shortly before Lear Seigler shut down operations around 1988-89. The O'Day might be a Chevrolet of production boats however you do get a lot of boat for the money. Although you can trailor the O'Day 26, you would need a substantial truck and it would not be much fun!
 

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Boats to consider.

I would consider a nice little catboat, such as a Compac or a Menger. They may not point quite as high as a sloop, but they come close. What the lose in pointing they make up for in ease of rigging, ease of handling, comfort, space, stability,and they fly off the wind.

If you don't mind a fixed keel, consider a J-22 (kinda Spartan below) or a Beneteau 235. They can still be trailered, but you need a steep ramp for launching and retrieving.

Doug Maass
Sleepy Hollow, NY
 

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We have a Halman 20. Fixed keel, easy to single-hand, especially with the roller furling we installed. She is sturdy and so sweet!! You should be able to find one with trailer for under 6,000. J&J
 

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Flying Scot upgrade

FS,
Another upstater and former Scot sailor here. We bought a Capri 22 and were very happy with it. After 10 years on Skaneateles we went to a 38 footer on Lake Ontario.

The Capri sails well, 2 guys can easily step the mast on the trailer. You can sleep on the boat and it has a great big cockpit. I'd suggest finding one with the race package and non-Catalina sails if you have a choice. Not as fast as a J-22 but a whole lot more comfortable inside. If you're planning to do a lot of overnights you might want to look at a pocket. Typically you give up performance for comfort with say a Precision, or Catalina 22.

Good luck!
Dave
 
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