SailNet Community banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Superior Sailor
Joined
·
1,031 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just got this new (to me) used sail off e-bay, couple hundred bucks but it's a perfect match on luff, leach and foot measurements...

It has a bolt rope in the foot which I need and slugs on the luff which I don't, so I'm in the process of removing the old slugs and replacing them with new slides and shackles...

I get the top eight off relatively easy (they were attached with nylon straps, I cut them off with my hot knife) But I did notice there is no bolt rope in the luff tape, just gromets...

The lower four slugs are short shackled to a rope of some sort and are set up to "slide"...?



What does this system do for sail shape...?

Or is it part of the reefing system...?

Should I add my slides to the short shackles and run the system...?

Or should I cut it all off and use the longer shackles with slides all the way up and down the luff tape...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
Guesses:

The previous boat needed some slack in the lower luff to help with reefing. Or perhaps the sail was made wrong and needed some slack in the lower panel to get some depth. Or some sailors just do truly weird inexplicable things.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,484 Posts
It's a 'jackline'... a way to help get your second reef cringle down to the tack hook when the slugs pile up too high in the track - like so:

 

·
Superior Sailor
Joined
·
1,031 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So it's something I'm going to want to keep...?

How are the reef clew rings rigged then...Two separate lines...?

Right now I have a single line reefing on a single reef sail...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Rig your reefing lines in your usual, preferred way. The jackline allows the reef's tack cringle to lay on top (or at least close to) the boom. After a month or so of use, you will hardly notice the jackline anymore.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,484 Posts
So it's something I'm going to want to keep...?

How are the reef clew rings rigged then...Two separate lines...?

Right now I have a single line reefing on a single reef sail...
This is not a tack reef line... it simply gives you the slack to get the tack reef cringle down to the boom. It certainly doesn't affect how you'd rig the clew reef points, and the reef tack points can be rigged the same as if the jackline wasn't there unless you use tack hooks, but again this line doesn't affect how you rig your reefing system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
A reef jack line? Ok. But seems like the better fix for that is better slides properly (loosely) bound to the luff. A main sail should drop easily, if not all by itself. Too much complexity in an already crowded area at the gooseneck.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,484 Posts
A reef jack line? Ok. But seems like the better fix for that is better slides properly (loosely) bound to the luff. A main sail should drop easily, if not all by itself. Too much complexity in an already crowded area at the gooseneck.
It's not a 'pull down' line..(the sense I get from what you've said)

The issue here is that if the sail track stop is too high above the gooseneck (or the slugs themselves too 'tall') the height of the tightly stacked slugs (usually only an issue for 2nd reefs or above) is too high above the tack for the cringle to actually reach.

The jackline allows the lower luff of the sail to fall away from the slugs and reach further down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
The jackline allows the lower luff of the sail to fall away from the slugs and reach further down.
Gotcha! Thanks. That makes sense. There still might be a better way. Many sails have far more slugs than necessary. Consider leaving some out. Or fit extensions on the reef cringes. The only downside of that is a higher aft end of the boom which doesn't hurt anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,067 Posts
The reefing jackline when not tensioned (the jackline goes slack when the sail is lowered to reef) allows the slugs between the normal tack and the first reefing tack to 'stack' directly on top of one another in the mast slot - allows the reefing cringle to be pulled closer to the gooseneck, etc.. The slack jack line also allow the sail to be rolled (bunted) tighter near the gooseneck, plus the section that is reefed doesnt have to be close to mast the luff in that section can easily be pulled away from the mast (decreasing the 'bulk' near the tack/gooseneck) ... another plus is there will be no horizontal tension from the reefed/bunted sail transmitted to the lower slugs which can easily break them.

Without a reef jackline ... to accomplish the above, one has to open the mast track gate and manually remove all the slugs in the mast track that are between the first reef cringle and the 'normal' sail tack cringle. If you dont remove the slugs in the reefed luff section, they are at high risk of being broken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,067 Posts
Many sails have far more slugs than necessary. Consider leaving some out.
.... and develop longer, deeper and more quickly developed/generated --- radiating, permanently stretched-out creases ('girts') emanating from the slug grommets being used. Total useful sail life is 'shortened' due to the permanent deformation at the slug cringles.
Hell, use only ONE slug between the headboard and tack .... and see what happens to the sail. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
.... and develop longer, deeper and more quickly developed/generated --- radiating, permanently stretched-out creases ('girts') emanating from the slug grommets being used. Total useful sail life is 'shortened' due to the permanent deformation at the slug cringles.
Hell, use only ONE slug between the headboard and tack .... and see what happens to the sail. :)
Relax man ... only having one slug in the middle is not enough. But often there are more than needed. Look around. Some boats have slugs a meter apart, some almost two meters, some less than half a meter. Does not seem to make much difference. Luff slugs are not loaded very hard. The slugs at battens push on the mast rather than pull. A good friend has one slug between each full batten - far more than a meter apart. I thought that was extreme but it works fine.

So if there is a slug that might ease reefing if removed, the OP might try simply skipping it. It's easy to test by simply not engaging it in the slot.
 

·
Superior Sailor
Joined
·
1,031 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The reefing jackline when not tensioned (the jackline goes slack when the sail is lowered to reef) allows the slugs between the normal tack and the first reefing tack to 'stack' directly on top of one another in the mast slot - ....

Without a reef jackline ... to accomplish the above, one has to open the mast track gate and manually remove all the slugs in the mast track that are between the first reef cringle and the 'normal' sail tack cringle. If you dont remove the slugs in the reefed luff section, they are at high risk of being broken.
So the reefing Jack line bitter end will need to be secured to tension the jackline....where is that generally located, a cleat on the boom, thru the tack or tack hook ...?

And how is the luff tensioned...raise the main halyard to tension luff then pull jackline down to tension slides...

So your saying if I remove the jackline and go with all shackles and slides, I may not be able to set my second reef tack (at least not without difficulties)
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,484 Posts
So the reefing Jack line bitter end will need to be secured to tension the jackline....where is that generally located, a cleat on the boom, thru the tack or tack hook ...?

And how is the luff tensioned...raise the main halyard to tension luff then pull jackline down to tension slides...
Tie the jackline onto the tack cringle of the sail.. when properly adjusted, the halyard tension pulls the jackline taut and 'pulls' all the 'jacklined' slug cringles tight to their respective slugs. Once properly set, the jackline is more or less 'self tending' unless the line stretches a bit over time.

So your saying if I remove the jackline and go with all shackles and slides, I may not be able to set my second reef tack (at least not without difficulties)
Correct.. the reef tack cringle will 'hang up' and not reach the tack hook at the gooseneck. Your foot will not be properly set when reefed.

Removing and reinserting slugs during any reefing operation at best a PITA and potentially unsafe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,067 Posts
So the reefing Jack line bitter end will need to be secured to tension the jackline....where is that generally located, a cleat on the boom, thru the tack or tack hook ...?

And how is the luff tensioned...raise the main halyard to tension luff then pull jackline down to tension slides... YES!!!!!!

So your saying if I remove the jackline and go with all shackles and slides, I may not be able to set my second reef tack (at least not without difficulties) Possibly, depends on sail cloth weight and how much bulk 'stacks up' at the tack for the deeper reef ... with the jackline the bulk will be at a minimum, but you may still have to remove some slugs from the track for a 'tight second' reef.
Faster's above answer #14 is a good one.

Ill add when setting up the jackline, set up enough tension in the jackline (tied off at or through the sail's tack cringle, etc.) so that when or if you pull the sail from the leach, that the jackline AT the slugs remains somewhat straight in line with the adjacent shackles/cringles ... and the jackline is mostly parallel along the mast and the sail's boltrope, not loose at the slugs and forming 'bowed' attitude. If during 15-20kts. (on a beat, etc.) with a full up & well drawing sail if the jackline becomes 'scalloped' AT the slugs, consider to 'tighten the line' a wee bit until almost straight (doesnt have to be done 'immediately', soon is OK). This will keep the distance of the boltrope from the mast at approximately the same distance off ... all the way to the head, maybe a few 1/16ths of an inch further off near the jackline.

hope this helps. ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,036 Posts
So it's something I'm going to want to keep...?

How are the reef clew rings rigged then...Two separate lines...?

Right now I have a single line reefing on a single reef sail...
Since the OP have single line reef one could assume that he is not using a tack hook, if so i can't see the need to keep this system.

I have three reefs, fully battened main, mast track all the way to the goose neck, two line reef system and no tack hooks, sail stacks fine on the boom.
 

·
Super Moderator
Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
Joined
·
10,708 Posts
Since the OP have single line reef one could assume that he is not using a tack hook, if so i can't see the need to keep this system.

I have three reefs, fully battened main, mast track all the way to the goose neck, two line reef system and no tack hooks, sail stacks fine on the boom.
When the boat has a fixed gooseneck and a mainsail made for the boat, the sail generally does not need a jackline. A properly designed mainsail is made so that the slugs at the reefs are spaced further apart with the reef cringle at the half way point between the slugs. A good sailmaker will measure the distance between the gooseneck and the top slug when the sail is reefed and space the slugs at the reef twice that distance plus a small amount. That way the reef cringle can reach the gooseneck which is important, unless you want to rig a line around the mast to resist the aftward force exerted by the sail and the reef outhaul.

I should note that this does not work on all boats and all sail configurations. For example it does not work when the slug stop is too far from the gooseneck forcing the space between the lugs at the reef to be too widely spaced for the halyard to prevent scallops. When I bought my boat it had that problem and I had to modify it accordingly. My boat had only used racing mainsails (no slugs) so the slot in the mast was well above the gooseneck and the slug stop was right at the bottom of the slot. At the consultation with the sailmaker, when I put slugs on my mainsail, I built a slot cover that allowed the slugs to pass the slot, and relocated the stop closer to the gooseneck so the slugs could stack closer to to the gooseneck when reefed.

Jacklines are essential on boats with track mounted goosenecks, probably the case on the boat where that mainsail came from, or on sails which are not tailored to the boat.

As my esteemed colleagues Faster and RichH, suggested, the jackline is basically a set it one and leave it item. It does need to be set tight enough to hold the sail close to the mast and should be set tight enough that it is stretched out and under tension when the sail is fully hoisted. RichH's description of this is a good one.

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
Last spring I ordered a new main and genoa...the main came with a jack line for the reef points as has been described above...it does not require any type of setting, or really anything...and you reef the same way you always reef.

I'm not sure I would want to remove any of the slugs on my main simply because they might stack up to high...
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top