[jephotog]

I have done my search here and figure 4200 would be best for bedding all my hardware and other upcoming projects.

As my first project I had drilled a hole below water line and installed a drain plug to clean out the bilge, its a trailerable boat. I have had trouble finding 4200 here in town. I had a huge 10 oz tube of 4200 the only size I could find locally. When reading the back of the tube it said, the tube should be used up within 24 hours of opening. I ended up just applying silicone and using screws to hold the drain, to fill the hole and will do it with an appropriate polyurethane when doing other projects coming up.

As my schedule has me away from home all day only to return late each evening, I was hoping to be able to come home and add install a few items each night if time and energy allows.. At this pace i will have to open a tube of 4200 each night then throw it away.

With this in mind I am looking to order a bunch of small tubes of 4200 to get this project going. I might get one long weekend day to do lots of these things at once but so far the weather has not cooperated and the season is nearing the end.

Is there another product that might be a suitable substitute for my needs say 3m 101 or Life-Calk? Or should I just order lots of small tubes of 4200? Is a primer recommended?

Thanks

 

[CalebD]

Check defender.com for 3M 4200. They sell the smaller tubes. I find that they last quite a long time if properly capped after use. Sometimes you have to puncture the tube to get the stuff out though. For small projects don't get the caulking gun tubes as they're harder to re-seal.
Wipe surfaces with acetone prior to applying - no other primer needed.
Good luck.

 

[speciald]

Use LifeSeal insteadof 4200 or 5200.

 

[jephotog]

Thanks Any idea of shelf life on these two products

I am going to order some of each and perform a test on the two different products. I know for a fact the life-seal has a fairly short expiration date on it in terms of a year or two while still in the tube. Does 4200 suffer this same fate?

If not I will just stock up on 4200.

 

[sailingdog]

I'd recommend you read the primer on marine sealants I wrote a while back. Many sealants are moisture curing and will go bad shortly after being opened.

 

[Maine Sail]

There is no need

There is no need to glue this stuff onto your boat. Adhesive sealants are one of the biggest scams this industry has succumbed to. 5200 is devils glue and 4200 is the devils little brothers glue.

4200 bonds at 300 PSI and can be a bear to remove at a later date. My boat is 30 year sold and was beded at the factory with butyl tape or butyl rubber. Butyl tape has a bond strength of about 10 PSI. 80% of the iofttings on my vessel still DO NOT leak even thirty years later. You do not need a glue..

3M 101 is a polysulfide that only adheres at about 130 PSI, still to much IMHO, and is a far better choice than 4200. EVERYTHING will eventually need to be re-bedded so why make future projects harder than they need to be?

BTW if you seal the tube well 4200 will NOT go bad in 24 hours..

Don't forget to countersink the bolt holes in the deck slightly..

 

[ahab211]

ultraseal by 3M worked well for sealing the windows on my [email protected] 24. I used 5200 with little success. Just a suggestion.

 

[cruisingmom]

I used 3M UV4000

UV4000 is designed to bed metal to fiberglass. Rebedded most of my stanchion bases and deck hardware - no leaking and can be removed at a later date without a blow torch. The tube can be resealed without an issue. Have even used a year later without loss of cure or handling.

Andy

 

[Maine Sail]

UV 4000 is a polyether product which does appear to have quite a long tube life. Though not as UV resistant as I'd like to see, it does seem to last a while in the tube and may be a good choice in the OP's area.

It should be noted that UV 4000 has the same bond strength as 4200 of about 300 PSI. I have seen 4200 tear the gelcoat from the substrate before so do be careful in the event that you do need to remove these products.

The marketers at 3M seem to call anything less strong that 5200 "easy to remove".... I guess when you compare 700 PSI to 300 PSI it does seem "easy"..

 

[xort]

I ended up just applying silicone and using screws to hold the drain, to fill the hole and will do it with an appropriate polyurethane when doing other projects coming up.

Silicone is extremely difficult to remove properly. It leaves a very fine residue that won't come off with acetone or caulk remover. You will have to sand down the areas where you have used silcone. Nothing else seems to work.
I suggest you never use silicone on your boat for anything

 

[sailingdog]

I'd second using Butyl Tape in any application above the waterline that does not require the mechanical adhesive strength of one of the other sealant-adhesives. 4200 and 5200 are adhesives that work as sealants IMHO, not really sealants in and of themselves. Removing anything bedded in either is a PITA and can result in some serious damage to your boat.

 

[jephotog]

Thanks again

Once again, I am glad I asked. After searching the threads for more information I thought I had it covered but came up with some more information with a new thread. I am glad i waited as well as I almost ordered a bunch of smaller tubes of 4200 and life-seal yesterday.

I will see if I can find some butyl tape at a local RV supply place. There are a lot more RV outlets nearby than chandleries in Utah. I will look for some 3m 101 as a secondary option. Any suggestions of where to look for either of these locally. I do have one drainage port I installed below the waterline in the boat that i sealed with silicone just to close it up, for now. Should I go ahead and use 4200 there? There is also a padeye mounted into the bow to attach to the winch for pulling up onto the trailer. It appears to be unsealed and even loose, I suspect the padeye part may be a Home Depot part. When I put a SS padeye there, would this be a good place for 4200 as well?

Also to clarify my plan based on all I have read here on the deck hardware rebedding:
-Pull off all hardware in one location. (I will brake it down to one area at a time, forward of the mas then aft)
-Clean up old sealant.
-Drill out oversized but not to exceed the size of hardware covering it.
tape underside of hole and fill with epoxy to coat and seep in then drain and fill with thickened epoxy
-Use hardware to drill out new holes. Bevel interior of holes.
-Use butyl tape for new bedding
-Mount using SS bolts and SS backing plate inside boat.

Thanks

 

[zeehag]

5200 is NOT a bedding compound. silicone does not work for more than one season and is inappropriate for bedding---read the tube LOL.....i use lifecaulk---liquid for certain things on my formosa and regular for the rest----is an appropriate compound, as is 4200..silkaflex is also good..and some others-----but--if you want to have to redo everything every year, use silicone. if you wish failures, use 5200----that stuff doesnt come off easily either--is a permanent glue for mounting stuff not for bedding things-says so on the label, btw.........

 

[jephotog]

silicone does not work for more than one season and is inappropriate for bedding

Just to clarify, I have no intention of leaving the silicone on the plug. I only used it then as I had a hole in my boat below the waterline and it was the only product I had on hand to temporarily seal the hole, in case I wanted to go sailing before I could get it done right.

 

[zeehag]

Just to clarify, I have no intention of leaving the silicone on the plug. I only used it then as I had a hole in my boat below the waterline and it was the only product I had on hand to temporarily seal the hole, in case I wanted to go sailing before I could get it done right.

i have never tried silicone for that usage---i have used splash zone, but is difficult to remove for temp duties......

 

[Maine Sail]

When I put a SS padeye there, would this be a good place for 4200 as well?

Not really that pad eye will be mechanically fastened and will NOT require a glue. If you feel like using a glue you can but you don't need to.

Also to clarify my plan based on all I have read here on the deck hardware rebedding:
-Pull off all hardware in one location. (I will brake it down to one area at a time, forward of the mas then aft)
-Clean up old sealant.
-Drill out oversized but not to exceed the size of hardware covering it.
tape underside of hole and fill with epoxy to coat and seep in then drain and fill with thickened epoxy
-Use hardware to drill out new holes. Bevel interior of holes.
-Use butyl tape for new bedding
-Mount using SS bolts and SS backing plate inside boat.

Thanks

Feel free to read this article:

Sealing Deck Penetrations to Prevent Core Rot (LINK)

 

[Siamese]

Should you choose to use 3m 4200 or the 5200 for whatever's appropriate, you can put the opened tube in the freezer as soon as you're done. I've found that it thaws out and is like new a few months later.

 

[zeehag]

you might want to place penetrating epoxy into th escrew hole then bed the screws with 4200 then finish.....will never be a problem if you use the epoxy....seals the core and the glass.......just a hint for the wicked....from the wicked---it works well-----i picked this one up from a boatbuilder i knew long ago.......