[lya]

I asked the same question on SA with no luck.

I have years of solo experience sailing my Sunfish. I think I did everything that could be done - and should've never been done - in that sailboat. Now, I want to upgrade to my first keel sailboat - again for solo sailing.

I've possibly checked out all the suitable sailboats in the market, but not being able try them firsthand, I pretty much wasted my time on the Internet. Checking out specs and looking at photos on websites, I'm going nowhere.

This summer, I might dump a whole bunch of money into a sailing club membership and get access to a J/24 fleet. Before I do that, I thought I should stop by here.

Thanks.

 

[Jeff_H]

I will start by saying that how well any given design will work for you will largely depend on what you plan to do with the boat. In other words, a person who only wants to daysail single-hand would probably want a boat that is different from someone who only wants to race single-hand, vs. someone who only wants to overnight single-hand vs someone who only wants to do long voyages solo. Or the most unicorn of them all, a boat that can do all of the above. Some of what will be a good choice for you will also be dependent on your budget, where you sail, athleticism, and your own aesthetic tastes.

But the good news is that there are a lot of good boats out there that can be adapted to single-handed sailing, even if there are very few that left the factory set up to be perfect single-handers.

Without having the kind of information that would be suggested by in my second paragraph, I can only generalize about an ideal single-hander, but the members and i can probably suggest more specific models if you provide some details about how you plan to sail, where you plan to use the boat, and a general budget.

But to provide a quick general set of recommendations: (and I am sure that some experienced short-handers will disagree with some or all of these)

Fin keel​

Counter balanced spade rudder​

Tiller steered if under about 35 feet​

Fractional rigged sloop​

Displacement to Length (D/L) below 170​

Sail Area to Displacement (SA/D) Around 22.​

Ballast ratio larger than around 32% (for a deeper draft fin keel and greater for a shoal draft)​

Overall displacement below 11,000 to 12,000 lbs​

Ideally control lines and reefs run back to the cockpit.​

Beyond that details should be tailored to your sailing needs. I will note that I do a lot of single-handed day-sailing, cruising, and racing and have since the 1960's, so I warn you that some of this reflects my own tastes and how I choose to sail. Your mileage will vary.

Jeff

 

[AndyL]

Check if the sailing club allows single handed sailing with their boats.

 

[lya]

I will start by saying that how well any given design will work for you will largely depend on what you plan to do with the boat. In other words, a person who only wants to daysail single-hand would probably want a boat that is different from someone who only wants to race single-hand, vs. someone who only wants to overnight single-hand vs someone who only wants to do long voyages solo. Or the most unicorn of them all, a boat that can do all of the above. Some of what will be a good choice for you will also be dependent on your budget, where you sail, athleticism, and your own aesthetic tastes.

But the good news is that there are a lot of good boats out there that can be adapted to single-handed sailing, even if there are very few that left the factory set up to be perfect single-handers.

Without having the kind of information that would be suggested by in my second paragraph, I can only generalize about an ideal single-hander, but the members and i can probably suggest more specific models if you provide some details about how you plan to sail, where you plan to use the boat, and a general budget.

But to provide a quick general set of recommendations: (and I am sure that some experienced short-handers will disagree with some or all of these)

Fin keel​

Counter balanced spade rudder​

Tiller steered if under about 35 feet​

Fractional rigged sloop​

Length to displacement (L/D) below 170​

Sail Area to Displacement (L/D)​

Ballast ratio larger than around 32% (for a deeper draft fin keel and greater for a shoal draft)​

Overall displacement below 11,000 to 12,000 lbs​

Ideally control lines and reefs run back to the cockpit.​

Beyond that details should be tailored to your sailing needs. I will note that I do a lot of single-handed day-sailing, cruising, and racing and have since the 1960's, so I warn you that some of this reflects my own tastes and how I choose to sail. Your mileage will vary.

Jeff

I had over a decade of Sunfish sailing fun in the Mediterranean Sea. That was the sailboat that I could get my hands on with my budget, and I did. I fixed it and sailed the heck out of it. I figured out things by myself. I am away from that heaven these days and got the sailing bug again from my old roommate here, far from the sea. The problem is, that's all I know about sailing.

I don't think I am someone who can do long voyages solo - maybe some years later, but certainly, not now.

I said solo as I started solo. I'll possibly be a solo sailor again. If I can meet folks and hang out with them, then why not? I'd say let's keep it solo for now and discover the options.

I'll be by the ocean starting this summer and found a sailing club there. I thought I could learn the ropes like that and what not, but then I realized I am going to be dumping lots of $$s that I could be using differently.

Well, I've never thought of overnight sailing, so I think I am just a solo day sailor. About racing, if there were a race and I were to own a sailboat, then okay, I guess - but I wouldn't buy a boat around the idea of racing. So, just like how I sailed the Sunfish, a casual day sailor is how I can describe myself. I saw the J/24s sailing around the Statue of Liberty and wondered if I could do the same; this should give an idea about where I'll sail - Newyork Harbor and such. The location may change, but I won't be crossing oceans anytime soon.

I'm 40, in good shape. Budget is no issue. I know Saffier 37 is a day sailer, and a beaten up but still sailing J22 is also a day sailer (orange vs apple here - a 37 would be a lot for me anyhow). I think you can guess which one I'll go with - A clue, I am cheap. Nevertheless, I am open for learning about all.

 

[lya]

Check if the sailing club allows single handed sailing with their boats.

Probably, not. If I join the club, I think I'll be part of a team. I wouldn't complain for the learning phase.

 

[lya]

Fin keel​

Counter balanced spade rudder​

Tiller steered if under about 35 feet​

Fractional rigged sloop​

Length to displacement (L/D) below 170​

Sail Area to Displacement (L/D)​

Ballast ratio larger than around 32% (for a deeper draft fin keel and greater for a shoal draft)​

Overall displacement below 11,000 to 12,000 lbs​

Ideally control lines and reefs run back to the cockpit.​

Jeff,

This is a great reference. I'll keep it in reach any time I am in the market. Sail Area to Displacement (L/D) is not there though.

 

[lya]

...about how you plan to sail, where you plan to use the boat
Beyond that details should be tailored to your sailing needs.

The next step from my Sunfish, onto the first keel sailboat. A sailboat with ballast. Simple and... Simple.

 

[SanderO]

I have done thousands of miles single handed coastal and offshore.
Of course you want a strong boat boat which if a "good sailer"... see JeffH's post.
I would also recommend:
roller furling head sail
adjustable pole for genny
fractional rig or ketch
anchor sail
removable inner stay for storm jib
jack lines
anchor locker w/ deck access that is isolated from cabin
spare anchor (or two)
200' chain for anchor
electric windlass w/ foot switches and cockpit remote switches for up and down
solid vang
full battened mainsail w/ Dutchman or lazy jacks
minimum 2 plotters
tablet or laptop
radar
fixed and hand held VHF
SSB radio
below decks autopilot
stowable dink
life raft
dodger and bimini (or cockpit cover when anchored
large batts
alt charging (solar)
wheel steering & emergency tiller
large dry cockpit you can "stretch out" in
galley close to companionway
forward dash mounted instruments
cockpit cushions
lee board(s)
weather clothes for cockpit
extra fuel and water
water maker
refrigeration (I like engine drive reduces the need for lots of solar and wind
Lots of spares: connectors, line, shackles, clamps, impellers, filters, fuses, bulbs, pumps, engine oil
wire, hose,plywood, misc wood etc.
lots of tools and spare tools,
ditch bag

 

[lya]

I have done thousands of miles single handed coastal and offshore.
Of course you want a strong boat boat which if a "good sailer"... see JeffH's post.
I would also recommend:
roller furling head sail
adjustable pole for genny
fractional rig or ketch
anchor sail
removable inner stay for storm jib
jack lines
anchor locker w/ deck access that is isolated from cabin
spare anchor (or two)
200' chain for anchor
electric windlass w/ foot switches and cockpit remote switches for up and down
solid vang
full battened mainsail w/ Dutchman or lazy jacks
minimum 2 plotters
tablet or laptop
radar
fixed and hand held VHF
SSB radio
below decks autopilot
stowable dink
life raft
dodger and bimini (or cockpit cover when anchored
large batts
alt charging (solar)
wheel steering & emergency tiller
large dry cockpit you can "stretch out" in
galley close to companionway
forward dash mounted instruments
cockpit cushions
lee board(s)
weather clothes for cockpit
extra fuel and water
water maker
refrigeration (I like engine drive reduces the need for lots of solar and wind
Lots of spares: connectors, line, shackles, clamps, impellers, filters, fuses, bulbs, pumps, engine oil
wire, hose,plywood, misc wood etc.
lots of tools and spare tools,
ditch bag

This is way advanced for my current sailing abilities. Something tells me, one day, in the far future, I will be searching for this comment though. I'm just trying to figure out my next step after my Sunfish. A Sunfish with ballast let's say .

 

[tempest]

Lya, If you are in the NYC area, the J-24's that you saw, likely either belonged to the NY sailing school/club if they were red hulls, or the True North Sailing school/club ( Jersey City) if they were white hulled. Rick at True North runs a club model, where you pay an annual fee and have access to the boats. ( J-24's ) I'm not sure how NY runs. True North requires that one of the members on board is approved by them to be a " Captain" but everyone gets a turn at the helm. You can work your way up to Captain status by eventually demonstrating your skill level. His boats were usually available to club members after 2 p.m. ( which are when the better winds are anyway)

If I didn't already own a boat, I thought it was a good model for a couple of reasons. 1.) I thought the pricing was decent 2.) you get to learn from experienced captains 3.) you get to meet other sailors. and lastly, The cost of keeping and maintaining your own Keelboat in NY Harbor is going to be much much greater than joining a club. I think it would be a good first step for you just getting back into sailing.

The next suggestion, would be to show up on race nights at a club and see who's looking for crew. Or post a card on a board, that you'd be willing to crew. I'm not sure, what the racing scene is on the Hudson At the moment, Rick could fill you in. You could also grab a ferry over to the Atlantic Highlands where they race every Wednesday night.

Another thing for you to look into, is obtaining a Boating Safety Certificate in your state of residence. I'm not up to speed on NY rules ( they had been pretty lax in the past) N.J. requires the operator possess a Boating Safety Certificate if you operate a motorized vessel ( which the J-24's on the Hudson are) Boat U.S offers an online course, and then you schedule an exam. I'm pretty sure the certificates are reciprocal. NY/NJ

Just a few thoughts for you to ponder.

 

[deniseO30]

You would it not be dumping IE wasting money for a Sailing Club or even sailing lessons.

You will get hundreds of answers here

I'm partial to wheel steering
years ago I had a hunter 23 swing Keel boat tiller steered. TOO small! Then I graduated within a year up to an ODay30. Finn Keel wheel steering.

I now have a hunter 34
Wheel steering fin Keel. not single-handing it hasn't even crossed my mind, However, I'm starting to realize my age is starting to affect my abilities.

Think about what you actually want to do, people sleep in canoes so it isn't about sailing overnight, because most people anchor at night except for the really Hardy and those people that want to sail at night.

Single-handing larger and larger boats is not so much about muscles as it is about logic applied with knowledge and use of mechanical advantage.
And, you already know how to sail, the principles are the same,

 

[deniseO30]

Sometimes watching instead of doing helps

 

[deniseO30]

Here's another little bit more romantic it isn't all about adrenaline

 

[paulk]

Lya. With nothing showing on your profile, we have no idea where you are now or what might be suitable. Are you still in the Med? Spain?... France?... Italy?... Greece?... Turkey?... Israel?... Egypt?... Libya?... Tunisia...? Morocco? It's a big place. What sort of "solo" sailing are you looking to do? Racing? People might point you towards a Finn, though it's not a keelboat. How much do you weigh? Cruising? A Hereshoff Doughdish might be just the thing. But it's not readily available outside of Massachusetts. Or are you planning to go across the Atlantic singlehanded? We need more information in order to be able to be more helpful.

 

[tempest]

I thought he said he would be sailing around NY harbor in the end of post # 4. but, generally pretty vague on details. So who knows.

 

[Arcb]

I would consider most small keel boats to be a down grade in skill level from a Sunfish. Keels on small sailboats are like training wheels on a bicycle. Why go that direction if you already know how to balance without them.

Unless you expect to be spending several nights on board, the best solution might be a more capable dinghy, beach cat or small trimaran.

 

[mstern]

I was in the same boat as you (sorry about that): moving from a Sunny to a keel boat. I wanted to be able to single-hand day sail and take my family and friends out for joy rides. I decided to go with a boat that was between 19 and 24 feet; I wanted the biggest cockpit available, and I liked the idea of a centerboard. And for the Admiral: the head would hopefully be behind a door.

The Oday 23 fit the bill very well: big cockpit, centerboard with a stub keel (no running aground for me!), and big bonus: the head was behind a door, not out in the open cabin.

Except for the head/door issue, there are plenty of boats that fit the bill: the Catalina 22 is at the head of the list; plentiful, cheap, good value, active owner's group, supportive manufacturer, forgiving and fun sailer. Another strong contender for me was the Cape Dory Typhoon. Easily the best looking option; also inexpensive. But not nearly as versatile a sailer; she needs some breeze to get up and go. And very tender; not something the Admiral appreciated. The Oday 22 and 222 are also options, as is the J24.

Whatever you choose, one must-have for the solo sailor: roller furling. I did a few years with my Oday with a hank on jib. But when I installed roller furling, I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made in my confidence and comfort. No more trips to the foredeck while by myself.

If you are in NYC, you should definitely avail yourself of the sailing club. Keeping a boat in the city is just outlandishly expensive. If you have a car, you can drive yourself to City Island, Long Island or NJ where it becomes somewhat less expensive. But that kind of travel has it's own issues.

 

[lya]

Wow! Thanks everyone. Phew!

All I would like to know is what is logically next after a long, long Sunfish phase, and I've realized maybe there is not a definite answer to that query. You gentlemen are right, I should've given more details if I want a solution to my situation.

Without getting into too many specifics, here is where I am lost. At this point of my life, I don't want that much of a wet experience. I am still seeking a small sailboat, so some water here and there splashing on my face or whatnot will happen, but I, at least, don't want to find my lazy middle-aged butt in water every ten to fifteen minutes. So, I want to learn about small simple keel sailboats that can sail at places like Tampa Bay or Biscayne Bay or around NY Harbor. I'm not looking for galleys, inboard diesels, and such. ---- A small keel day sailer, a step up from Sunfish, and that can handle the waters I listed here. This is what I want to learn without getting into too many details. What I know is what I did with my old Sunfish, what I read online, and what my ex-roommate preached at me.

About where I am... I am faraway from ocean nowadays, but I will be in Jersey City in Summer. I don't know if it will be a permanent gig or if I will be able to have a schedule that can fit the yacht clubs' schedules. After summer, what I know is, I will be somehow by the ocean in the East Coast. I gave vague background info as I, myself, don't know what the future holds for me either.

I don't want to respond to everyone who commented, as it'll only complicate the thread. I would like you to know that I read your comments and even conducted a little research about the suggestions you had made.

Jeff, I still am waiting for the Sail Area to Displacement (L/D) value.

Thanks to all.

 

[lya]

If you are in the NYC area, the J-24's that you saw, likely either belonged to the NY sailing school/club if they were red hulls, or the True North Sailing school/club ( Jersey City) if they were white hulled.

Manhattan sailing club, maybe?

 

[lya]

Sometimes watching instead of doing helps

Sorry, but nowhere in the Universe compares to the Mediterranean Sea when it comes to sailing a Sunfish.