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Discussion Starter #1
I think I remember seeing an owner writing about his 1977, but I'm not sure. I don't know when Jack Helms stopped production of the Helms 25. It would be interesting to know, at least to me.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Kevin:
Those two are the oldest and newest I know of. Is yours a 74 or 73 (last number in your serial on the transom). That's a great price for a 79 with a trailer if everything is in good shape. Plus a fresh water boat. I wonder if they were produced into the 80's? I think Jack Helms made his other models into the 80's.
I think I'll kid my wife and tell her I found a 79 Helms 25 and want to upgrade. Road trip! I don't know if you remember, but I drove from Philly to Ill to by KJ. How did you get Craigslist out of your area? Is there a national listing for all states?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Did you see the steering set up on the 76 in Craigslist? He has a connecting rod from the rudder to the aft of the outboard to steer the outboard with the rudder and tiller. I saw this on a boat at the Annapolis Boat Show and is way down on my to do list.
 

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My boat doesn't have a serial number because I believe it was produced prior to 1973, when they were required. The title work says that it's a 1972, which makes it 3 years older than me!

I found the Indy Craigslist H25 by googling, though you can go to any of the national/international Craigslist sites. Unfortunately, CL doesn't have a full system wide search function yet.

The picture in the CL ad isn't sharp enough resolution for me to make out the details of the outboard motor/rudder attachment, but it's an interesting idea. However, I find that my boat steers equally well under power with just the rudder or just the outboard. I prefer to simply use the rudder since the tiller is much more convenient than the outboard's tiller. I'm not sure what the advantage is of attaching the two together.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
western:
Welcome to the Helms site. Sounds like you were or are an owner.
 

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motor to rudder link

Kevin,
I often reach over the transome to manipulate the tiller arm on my outboard in really tight turns. I back into my dock, so the setting sun can shine on Mr. Mildew, just part of my never ending battle. I'm forced to make a 180 deg turn to do this and also must keep my mast out of the trees. At slow speeds and absent of high wind I can make almost "tank-turns" in the narrow waterway. I have unfortunately managed to impact the propeller with the rudder like this, Umm, not good. Backing down the rudder has a lot of force against it, Opps..But other than this I have found leaving the motor locked straight and steering via rudder is fine. It's very evident if the motor is slightly turned, I can't release the tiller for a second.

I wouldn't like the drag/resistance of a permanently attached link of my Honda to the rudder. My rudder is balanced (part of the surface is forward of the vertical axis line) and I "read" the resistance on the tiller by feel to determine if I have encountered shallow water, it kicks up and effort to steer is increased. I think it may also mask the signs of weather helm.

If your engine is tilted and the mount is lifted the prop should be well clear of the water when sailing, no need for full time linkage. I see this rig often on sport fish boats, linking the trolling motor to outdrive so th' Capt' can steer via his wheel.
 

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motor to rudder link

I have to have access to the motor since I don't have remote controls for starting/stopping/shifting or throttle. I often reach over the transom to manipulate the tiller arm on my outboard in really tight turns. I back into my dock, so the setting sun can shine on Mr. Mildew, just part of my never ending battle. I'm forced to make a 180 deg turn to do this and also must keep my mast out of the trees. At slow speeds and absent of high wind I can make almost "tank-turns" in the narrow waterway. I have unfortunately managed to impact the propeller with the rudder like this, Umm, not good. Backing down the rudder has a lot of force against it, Opps..But other than this I have found leaving the motor locked straight and steering via rudder is fine. It's very evident if the motor is slightly turned, I can't release the tiller for a second.


I wouldn't like the drag/resistance of a permanently attached link of my Honda to the rudder. My rudder is balanced (part of the surface is forward of the vertical axis line) and I "read" the resistance on the tiller by feel to determine if I have encountered shallow water, it kicks up and effort to steer is increased. I think it may also mask the signs of weather helm.

If your engine is tilted and the mount is lifted the prop should be well clear of the water when sailing, no need for full time linkage. I see this rig often on sport fish boats, linking the trolling motor to outdrive so th' Capt' can steer via his wheel.
 

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I get what you're saying David. I sometime use the tiller on my outboard to manuever when I'm in a tight marina. However, if it was linked to the rudder I wouldn't be able to turn the outboard nearly as far and I'd lose manueverabilty. My point is, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors by attaching the two.
 

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older Helms better

I have made it a point to continually ask each (interrogate) owners about their Helms. I believe that the oldest or first built Helms boats were build for racing perhaps more than cruising. It's just my belief that Jack (an olympic sailor) built his boats to race, as a builder he was also subject to the pressure of the buyer. The later models included a galley, sometimes a pop-top cabin complete with camping tent and other itmes to make his racer more appealing to the family (read wife) sailor.
The earlier boats (25'ers) drained the cockpit from the front of the cockpit, later drains were located close to the stern. I have located my Helms (75) alongside Odalisque (73) and the hulls appeared to be exactly the same, I only viewed them, I didn't measure them in detail. I know that the Port & Stbd. hull lines of mine aren't exactly mirrored, my lifelines are different lengths, the rubrails are different lengths.
David
 

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Add me to the list. I just bought the 1979 25 that had been listed in the Indy Craigslist.

Hull Number 620 - December 1979

The rod connecting the tiller to the obm is only for use when under motor. It is easily detached when under sail.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
philo13:

Welcome to our Helms site. Almost an "80". We learn a little more about our boats every day. It will be interesting to see what changes were made in the late 70's. Yes, post lots of pictures.
 

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Thanks for the welcome. for this year, at least throught the familiarization phase, the boat will stay at Monroe reservoir south of Bloomington, IN.

I've been reading Kevin's blog, and it looks like I'll want to ttry some "big water" sailing on Lake Michigan eventually, but we're not ready for that yet. As near as I can tell from your pictures, the main change is a shorter v berth and the addition of a head (toilet w/ holding tank and sink) on the port side and a hanging locker opposite on the starboard. The boat is generally in good shape, a little weeping at the junction between the fiberglass and the plastic tube for the swing keel cable (what is this called), and the windows apparently need to be pulled out aand reinstalled to fix the rainwater leaks. Also the motor mount seems a bit wobbly where it attaches to the stern - I may need to beef that up some.

I'll post pictures when I get a chance to take some. We purchased it Tuesday night - dead calm - and had to motor it to our marina. Almost dark by then, and raining ever since.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Philo13:
I think we all have been through the window resealing repair. let us know when your going to do that project and we can tell you what works and what doesn't work.
I looked for some engine bracket pictures. Here is what I could find quickly. It is the original engine mount. I was able to find the original manufacturer and he is still in business. Unfortunately he no longer makes the bracket or has parts for the bracket.








For the cable, there usually is a 1/2" copper or bronze tee fitting glassed into the top of the trunk. The horizontal opening has the sink vinyl tube hose clamped to it. The top opening has the cable coming out of it. There is a short section of 7/8" vinyl hose clamped to that opening and about halfway to the winch there is a piece of 1/2" vinyl hose slid into the 7/8" hose ( pressure fit) and stops at the base of the winch. I'm not sure where your leak is. I don't have any leaks in this area.
 

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I permanently sealed off the sink drain with a rubber cork, 5200 and a copper cap. I didn't like having a possible leak associated with a feature (sink) I wasn't going to use. I removed the sink entirely and turned the space into a storage locker.

My boat only has a single upper vinyl hose, not the two that Wayne described. I also do not have any leaks in this area.
 

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My sink drains to a gollon jug. The sink drain hose on the "T" is just doubled over and tied off. I plan to do away with it. As for the bronze or copper "T" I can't even see it under multiple layers of silicone.

I plan to yank that all off and redo the whole shebang. While silicone makes a good caulk or gasket material, it is a lousy topping material. That's where the leak is. Just a minor weeping where water infiltrates between layers of caulk.

Thanks for the pics of the obm mount. That's the exact one I've got. I don't think I need any replacement parts, I just need to beef up or maybe just tighten the through hull attachment. That is where the play seems to be.

We're still trying to come up with a name - the usual problems, not too goofy and not too common. So far the list of possibles is getting longer not shorter.

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Don't rush into the name. You'll know it's the one when you hear it. Also, imagine calling the CG with the name you choose. I actually saw a boat named Mayday. What was he thinking, or not.

I think the only place for silicone on a boat is around glass or some plastics that aren't compatible with anything else. Since that area has silicone on it, it has contaminated everything it was on, so now nothing will stick to it. You'll have to grind down to some new material to reseal.
 
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