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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm taking my Barient 28 winches off the boat to do some maintenance on them for the first time since I've owned the boat, an Islander 36. They are starting to get a bit stiff and a little noisy.

I've run into an issue on the first winch that I attempted to remove. The gear housing is held to the winch base with four 1/4" allen head cap bolts. Three came out fairly easily, the forth looks like the attached. It has splits in the bolt and a 1/4" allen wrench would not fit in it. A 7/16" will fit but when turning the wrench, the nut opens up at the splits and fails to turn the bolt.

Any ideas what this is, and how to get it out?



 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Now that I look at it on the computer screen, is that a Torx? Still unsure why it would open at those splits. :eek:

In that second picture you can see three tabs at the bottom of the socket that move when the bolt splits open. Not sure what that does.
 

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Remember you're a womble
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You don't normally have to take them off to service them, just take the drum off to expose the gubbins, clean, re-lube, done.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
In order to get to the gears, I have to remove the drum from the housing and the housing from the base. Then flip over for further tear down. That screw is holding the gear housing to the base.

Base of starboard winch.



I'm anal enough that I need to clean the junk out from under the winch housing anyway. :puke
 

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Generally I would assume that this bolt would be the same configuration as the other bolts you already removed.
There is a tamper proof bolt head that has 3 slots that are off center and don't meet in the exact center but why would anyone use a tamperproof bolt in this application ?
I would get a dental pick and try to clean up all the crud to get a clearer picture of what is there. For all you know, someone stripped the hole and stuck an expanding lead anchor or similar in there just to grab something.
Good luck!
 

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Taking it day by day
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I'm not sure if it's supposed to open up, looks more like it's corroded and cracked. You might have to carefully drill it out.
As above, I've had Allen Head bolt's fail like this on a number of occasions in various applications......and they have had to be drilled and pulled with an easy out, or completely drilled out and helicoil insert fitted or even drilled and tapped up to the next size bolt.....whichever way I would say the bolt will have to be drilled out....

How available are replacement bases? it could be the easiest way out....
 

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If you have to drill it out, I would get a new base, if available. I like Time-serts over Helicoil, but I don't think I would trust either to the loads on a winch.

If you try an ez-out, be sure to use a ton of penetrating oil to loosen it up and do not force it. Break off an ez-out in the bolt and you have a near nightmare. BTDT
 

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Taking it day by day
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If you have to drill it out, I would get a new base, if available. I like Time-serts over Helicoil, but I don't think I would trust either to the loads on a winch. BTDT
Agreed, I prefer Time-serts over helicoil in some applications, but it may interest you to know that when I was building top fuel engines for drag cars all the threads between the heads and block are drilled and helicoiled, by doing this the threads are 2.5 stronger than original, and no winch on any boat goes through the load that a 2500hp nitro engine puts out....;)

But I agree, a new winch base would be my preference...:)
 

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Per Barient schematic -

5/16" UNC x 1" stainless steel cap screw (one of four)
Base is Barient P/N 11746 - Aluminum (same for self tailing model)

The bolt is not the issue, the damage caused to remove from base is. Replace base if possible, you may need to hunt for a used one to canabalize. Alternative (if you have access below) is bore all 4 through the base so you can thru-bolt through the combing.

Anal about full tear down, cleaning out the schmegma, getting it back to reliable - check

I have a bunch of Barient schematics, PM if needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks guys, all great suggestions. I'm thinking of soaking it in PB blaster and trying to get something on that to back it out. If not, drilling it is.

I know Minny's sells used Barients, I'll see if they have base to buy. Funny, as boats go anyway. If I get that far to pulling the base, I should just replace them with nice Self Tailers. :p
 

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Learning the HARD way...
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I had a similar issue with my mast mounted Barlow winch. The winch was mounted to an aluminum mast plate, and 1 of the 5 stainless screws removed with a generous application of torque. Two were a nightmare, as the heads snapped off. I was afraid that the last two heads were going to snap off as well, until I applied heat from a butane torch, followed by PB-Blaster, then heat again. I was able to back the last two screws out. I then grabbed the remnants of the two snapped screws with a pair of vice grips, and managed to back them out. In my situation, I believe that the heat did the trick.
 
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.....it may interest you to know that when I was building top fuel engines for drag cars all the threads between the heads and block are drilled and helicoiled, by doing this the threads are 2.5 stronger than original, and no winch on any boat goes through the load that a 2500hp nitro engine puts out....;)
Yup, depending on the threads and material, the inserts can be stronger. It wasn't the linear load that I was concerned over, as much as the side loads and twisting that a winch is subject to.
 

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Thanks guys, all great suggestions. I'm thinking of soaking it in PB blaster and trying to get something on that to back it out. If not, drilling it is.

I know Minny's sells used Barients, I'll see if they have base to buy. Funny, as boats go anyway. If I get that far to pulling the base, I should just replace them with nice Self Tailers. :p
Now your thinking! As satisfying as it is to solve these little problems economically, sometimes you just have to take it as a sign that it is time to upgrade! New ST winches are something you will appreciate every time you go sailing. If you've got the money it is money well spent!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I ended up drilling the bolt out. Couldn't get it off the base though. It moves but just too tight. Heat is the key as suggested above.

Never fails, needed the little blue bottle for the torch. Found out the GF "borrowed" it the other day for the BBQ. I wondered why she didn't have the little green squat bottle on the grill. :hothead

It got too late with the short day so I'll try to hit it tomorrow. I did tear apart the other winch, I'll post a pick with another question.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
A better view of the pawl edge. The one on the right in this pic has a groove worn in the back edge. Can't figure out what that was from. Don't think it would bother the function of it though?



I'll prob. just replace them anyway. New springs too? or?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The Start, I heard there was a grease shortage after the last guy rebuilt these.



 
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