[rjppunk]

Recently I just repaired my swimming ladder after 3/4 rungs snapped in two. I ended up using cherry to replace the plastic rungs, and to replace the wooden side rails ( build/pics shown here Restoring a 1970's Sailboat)

For something that's only in the water for maybe an hour or two at a time I wasn't too worried about wood selection. I only knew I wanted a hardwood to support my weight (210 lbs), and I didn't want to buy teak or mahogany because it's pricey.

Conveniently my families all have their land logged and we have a few thousand feet of cherry at my grandfathers woodshop, so that pretty much decided what I used.

Now for actual stuff on my boat, is there a larger guide to wood selection outside of teak/mahogany or I suppose red cedar? Any reason not to use cherry, maple, or oak? Salt is not an issue where I live.

Also what to never use is handy.

 

[miatapaul]

I have only ever heard of cherry being used on interiors. Very popular now that teak prices have gone through the roof, and actually one of favorite choices left natural. Oak has been used for boats for generations as planking and framing. I believe it is white oak is better rot resistance than red. Never heard of maple being used much. Locust is also very good, not sure if you have any of that available. It is often used in fences and was very commonly used in the past.

I am sure Denise will jump in she is one of resident wood experts.

That said, if you give it a good soaking in epoxy (thinned down to be well absorbed by the wood) then put varnish over that to protect from UV you can likely use just about anything.

Salt is normally good for the wood, and helps prevent rot. A wooden boat I volunteer on once and a while they put salt into the river water in big barrels on deck, then use that to scrub down the decks, and they throw salt in the bilge as well.

 

[PorFin]

Welcome aboard!

Here's a couple of links to useful sites:
Woodfinder's Wood Library

The Wood Database

Species that have good durability ratings are preferred.

Stay away from red oak -- really poor choice for anything on a boat.

For structural members, white oak and black locust are great choices.

For a decent wood that performs similar to teak for less cost, check out Ipe (pronounced "ee-pay") or Cumaru.

 

[bobmcgov]

Cherry has moderate resistance to rot and adequate weathering properties (different metrics, there). It's a better outdoor wood than generally thought. White oak, by comparison has excellent rot resistance but poor weathering characteristics (prone to checking and raised late wood.) Red oak is awful in both categories. Maples contain too much sugar & have no native rot resistance; they weather surprising well, tho. Still not a good choice for exposed locations.

For items like swim steps, I'd go with any of the tropical hardwoods. No wait -- I'd go with plastic or metal. But if you must choose wood, there's a good chance the stuff that can survive in a cloud forest will do well outdoors. Most of the tropicals are hard and brutal to work with; most are somewhat to moderately expensive; many are prone to end-checking with moisture cycles; and some may cause staining or skin rashes. Jatoba (Brazilian cherry), Ipe, and cocobolo have long histories aboard ships. Mahoganies (New World and African) are not bad: easy to work, rot resistant, moderately priced. Spanish cedar (not a cedar, but a close mahogany relative) is soft and a weak but incredibly rot & mildew resistant and among the most stable woods anywhere. Mesquite is prone to inclusions and wild grain, but it too has amazing properties. Several ornamentals, notably Osage Orange (aka hedge apple) are utterly rot-proof and very strong.

As Miata mentions, the two common locust species are hugely underutilized marine woods. Honey locust (gladitsia) is slightly easier to work and closely resembles teak. Black locust (robinia pseudoacacia)is a brutal wood, the toughest domestic hardwood, but even more resistant to rot and weathering than honey locust. It's a brilliant outdoor wood. But partly because it is so hard on tools (and vaguely unattractive, and has wicked thorns), it is difficult to find outside firewood piles. Central Atlantic states are your best bet. It is not widely sold as lumber.

 

[rjppunk]

We have black locust up my way, but I've only ever seen it used as pegs for timberframing. Most "exotic" woods are either out of my price range or a pain to get up this way (making them even more out of my price range.) Which would make me question putting them on a 28' 1976 boat restoration project. However, good points as I'm sure other people have bigger/better restoration projects in mind.

I also can't make anything large with my 3D printer plastic wise, so cherry was the way to go for repairing my ladder. Still cheaper than buying anything and IMO better looking for the money I put into it.

 

[mike dryver]

Locust is the cats meow. I used it to make a new stem for a Lightning. Locust is actually a eucalyptus. It is what was here from when the continents were all connected. It is very rot resistant, easy to work, and not as heavy oaks etc. It holds a finish well, or can be left natural. It has oil similar to teak in it, which helps to protect it!

 

[bobmcgov]

Locust is actually a eucalyptus. it!

Heh? Nooooo. Locust is a legume, a member of the highly diverse pea & bean order and family (Fabaceae).

Fabaceae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Black and honey belong to a different genus, but the same family -- which family includes everything from locust and carob trees to caragana hedges to vetch & clover ground covers to kudzu vines.

Eucalyptus is related to the myrtle: order myrtales, family myrtaceae. Native range of eucalypts is restricted to Austrailia, PNG, and that neighborhood. To call locust 'a kind of eucalyptus' is like calling humans 'a kind of bear.' :laugher They're both mammals, but that's about as far as it goes.

Never heard anyone call locust 'easy to work', either. Locust is as heavy as white oak (SG=0.69 to oak's 0.67), slightly harder than shagbark hickory, and highly abrasive to cutting tools. Neither wood is oily in the way teak or rosewood is oily; honey locust possesses a hardening sap and black locust loads of waxy tyloses which provide their good rot resistance. Some black locust exhibits interlocked grain which can make working with hand or machine tools challenging; honey locust is more uniform.

 

[Waterrat]

I would say black cherry is as good or better then mahogany, even without considering price. It is an excellent wood for both interior and exterior use on boats. Cherry is not as hard as white oak but otherwise very similar. It is dimensionally much more stable then white oak and just as rot resistant. Additional woods to consider are Black Walnut, Bald Cypress, Rock Elm, White Ash, Sitka spruce, all cedars, and Osage orange. One of my favorites is Red Mulberry very hard to find, beautiful, strong, rot resistant but heavy. It all depends on where and what you want to use it for. Your huge pile of black cherry is one of the best boat woods you can get.

 

[Waterrat]

By the way nice work on the ladder. Looks good.

 

[VallelyJ]

Black locust is rot-resistant, but quite brittle. It's got open pores, splits easily and would probably be kind of splintery. White oak, as someone else mentioned, is very rot-resistant. The passages that would allow water to soak into the end grain are naturally sealed off, unlike red oak, which rots fairly readily. There's a long history of using white oak on boats. Never heard of anyone using locust, but maybe others have. It wouldn't be my first choice, though locust fence posts last centuries. Good for firewood too.
Red cedar heartwood is rot-resistant but is hard to get now that old-growth wood is gone. The stuff you get today, I'm told, is often sapwood, and it doesn't last nearly as long on roofs as the old stuff does. This I heard from someone who restores historic buildings, which often had red cedar shingles and clapboards. A new red cedar roof on a barn near me hasn't lasted much more than 15 years.
I'd go with white oak, if you can find it. PVC would be my first choice, though.

 

[funjohnson]

Awesome info. We are redoing the interior of a boat and going with cherry furniture, but kind of stuck on what to use for the sole. We want something light colored for that euro two tone look, but most options seem to be too soft/ or rot. Any suggestions for something hard Maple colored, but with better rot resistance? Price is a consideration of course

Doesn't white oak discolor easy?


Matt

 

[VallelyJ]

I don't have an opinion re light-colored species for the sole, but you'll want a surface that isn't going to be smooth and slippery when it's wet.

 

[bobmcgov]

Awesome info. We are redoing the interior of a boat and going with cherry furniture, but kind of stuck on what to use for the sole. We want something light colored for that euro two tone look, but most options seem to be too soft/ or rot. Any suggestions for something hard Maple colored, but with better rot resistance? Price is a consideration of course

Doesn't white oak discolor easy?

Matt

Lonwood. Or one of the other sheet/strip-laid alternatives. I adore wood -- make my living with wood -- but I don't especially want it for the cabin sole of a sailboat. Better uses for my time than sanding and varnishing the floor. Anyone wants to get on their hands and knees and say, "Hey -- this floor is vinyl!", I'll respond, "Yeah -- and the boat is plastic and the sails are polyester and you didn't even need to remove your shoes when you came aboard. Isn't that nice?"

 

[JimMcGee]

Awesome info. We are redoing the interior of a boat and going with cherry furniture, but kind of stuck on what to use for the sole. We want something light colored for that euro two tone look, but most options seem to be too soft/ or rot. Any suggestions for something hard Maple colored, but with better rot resistance? Price is a consideration of course

Doesn't white oak discolor easy?

Matt

If you're doing the cabin sole maple would be fine. After all it's in an enclosed space. I had some hard maple on a sawhorse jig that sat outdoors for years. It went silver gray but didn't rot so it should be fine for an interior floor, especially if it's sealed with a finish.

Just keep in mind the color of maple can vary quite a bit from almost as white as holly to yellow or even light brown.

 

[funjohnson]

If you're doing the cabin sole maple would be fine. After all it's in an enclosed space. I had some hard maple on a sawhorse jig that sat outdoors for years. It went silver gray but didn't rot so it should be fine for an interior floor, especially if it's sealed with a finish.

Just keep in mind the color of maple can vary quite a bit from almost as white as holly to yellow or even light brown.

Thanks for the suggestion. We are planning on 1/2" ply underlay with 1/4" hardwood planks on top (sole has a lot of support) all coated with penetrating epoxy. It should be well protected, but I didn't want the base wood to have any inherent weakness from the start.

 

[bobmcgov]

*shrug* Good luck. Hope your bilges are really dry. Cuz maple (esp. hard maple) is prone to rot, mildew, and insect attack in damp locations. From the Purdue University Extension, one of the most respected authorities on wood:

Decay Resistance: The wood has no resistance to decay.

From the Wood Database:

Rot Resistance: Rated as non-durable to perishable, and susceptible to insect attack.

American Hardwood Export Council:

Durability: Rated as slightly or non-resistant to heartwood decay.

MatWeb:

Resistance to fungal decay (Heartwood in ground contact): Non-durable (5 to 10 years)
Resistance to penetration by preservatives: Resistant

R. Bruce Hoadley, who literally wrote the book(s) on wood species and their uses, ranks maples in the "Slightly or nonresistant" to decay column (Understanding Wood, p.36) alongside the poplars (true and yellow), willows, and alder.

Maple is a pretty wood, but I would not use it anywhere persistent moisture might even conceivably be present.