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People don’t take the law seriously. They are looking for a workaround and don’t think anything will happen to them. Or they look for loopholes to circumvent the law by looking at the social separation as an arguable point against the actual statement Stay in Place.

You see it in posts here. Some people think that they can determine on their own they are 6 ft from another and that’s the law. But it isn’t. It’s stay in place except for Essential Travel. Every state is different however on the East Coast they are Stay in Place laws.

It’s a difficult sh.t sandwich we have. All of us. We all need to pull in the same direction.
These are not laws. Laws are passed by the legislature. These are executive orders, and are vaguely worded without clarification, and different from state to state, and in my state where every town has its own police force, interpretation and enforcement are highly variable.

What, exactly, is "stay in place"? Stay in your chair and don't get up? Stay in one room of your house? Stay anywhere in your house? Stay in your yard? Stay in your town? Stay in your county? Can you walk the dog around town? Can you walk to the park? Can you drive to the park? Can you drive to the grocery store? Can you stop at the boat on the way to the grocery store? Can you drive to get carry out? If not, why are the carry out restaurants allowed to open?

These executive orders are unprecedented actions by our government. I support them due the importance of the situation. But I will continue to walk my dog. (He does not like treadmills.) And I will continue to check on my boat once a week, generally while on a grocery trip. It is totally sensible, and creates zero additional risk of transmission as long as I'm 50+ feet away from anyone else while at the boat.
 
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People don’t take the law seriously. They are looking for a workaround and don’t think anything will happen to them. Or they look for loopholes to circumvent the law by looking at the social separation as an arguable point against the actual statement Stay in Place.

You see it in posts here. Some people think that they can determine on their own they are 6 ft from another and that’s the law. But it isn’t. It’s stay in place except for Essential Travel. Every state is different however on the East Coast they are Stay in Place laws.

It’s a difficult sh.t sandwich we have. All of us. We all need to pull in the same direction.
Dave... there are some confusing messages I hear/see/read...

go out and exercise and stay away from others - social distancing
Use PPE when out... gloves and masks
Some business are "essential" (essential to what?)
you HAVE to go out to get groceries (sort of breaks the stay in place meme)

I am not sure what people are doing outside... going to visit friends? Surely not to dine out...

Is it ok to do gardening? mow the lawn? Wash the car? get supplies at the hardware or lumber yard? or paint store? Walk the dog?

I see very few people on the streets where I live, but saw many in the Bronx last week. Social distancing on a NYC street is pretty difficult.

What I would like to understand better is how this thing is spreading? In more detail.

If masks and gloves protect people do they likely end up with virus on them? How do you dispose of them with getting exposed? Why do we see some many gloves in the streets?

If Joe has the virus and sneezes and expels virus and it lands on the street... how long does it stay alive? Is it being tracked into people homes?
 

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I don’t need a lesson in civics or need to word dawdle. One of my two masters degrees is in political science.
I understand they are executive orders from the governor.
What difference does it mean in the meaning Of what’s being done by calling it a law or executive order?

I have actually attached it to a post in one of my threads. It carries a penalty . You may want to quibble about who put it in place, but it carries the weight of punishment if not followed. I will repost the link in case you have not read it😀

https://governor.maryland.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Gatherings-FOURTH-AMENDED-3.30.20.pdf

People want to argue like amateur lawyers about what it mean, because they are trying to find a way of getting around it. That’s how our society is in today’s world. Somehow working on or joy riding in a boat is more important than the good of the members of society. He took a measured approach leading up to the exec order.
People did heed his pleas.

Extraordinary times call for extraordinary means, extraordinary laws / executive orders ( happy?), and extraordinary sacrifice and effort from the population. Are you watching the news....the heartbreaking pleas from medical professionals including nurses and doctors to stay home . The heartbreaking pleas from people who have sick friends and relatives to stay home. Surely that means something.

Sacrificing a couple of weeks working on the boat or going out to stop the momentum of the virus isn’t a big ask.
The big ask/ sacrifice is asking nurses and doctors to go to work and deal with the monster every day.

Dr. Faulci today was ADAMANT and repeated 12 times the need and effect of staying put.

Equivocating or trying to find the workaround is an affront to all the other people who are sacrificing.

It is different orders in different states, but in Maryland that is the way it is. If you don’t like it keep you boat somewhere else . ( NJ has a similar strict law / executive order)
 

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Dave... there are some confusing messages I hear/see/read...

go out and exercise and stay away from others - social distancing
Use PPE when out... gloves and masks
Some business are "essential" (essential to what?)
you HAVE to go out to get groceries (sort of breaks the stay in place meme)

I am not sure what people are doing outside... going to visit friends? Surely not to dine out...

Is it ok to do gardening? mow the lawn? Wash the car? get supplies at the hardware or lumber yard? or paint store? Walk the dog?

I see very few people on the streets where I live, but saw many in the Bronx last week. Social distancing on a NYC street is pretty difficult.

What I would like to understand better is how this thing is spreading? In more detail.

If masks and gloves protect people do they likely end up with virus on them? How do you dispose of them with getting exposed? Why do we see some many gloves in the streets?

If Joe has the virus and sneezes and expels virus and it lands on the street... how long does it stay alive? Is it being tracked into people homes?
So I assume you are on quarantine for 14 days for visiting NY. In Maryland you would be. It’s on the overhead road signs.

I share you questions. I would like the answers. It’s still early in the game.
It seems like it’s been a long time but really it only been 3-4 weeks.
More and more will get known. Scientists all over are working feverishly .
So many rumors....so many hyped news reporting....a President telling people to take a drug that may cause more harm with no promise of good.

It’s a tough time. .people don’t do well unless they have answers and a direction to proceed. There are no answers yet. Things change daily. Error on the side of caution.
 

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Dave, you still provide no definition of "stay put". Do you leave your house to walk around your neighborhood?

I am not looking to circumvent anything. I am following Governor Wolf's stay-at-home directive, and making appropriate use of the exceptions that he spells out. The nearly full tank of gas in my car is evidence that I have modified my behavior greatly. We have no intention of entering Maryland by car or boat until it is clear that we would be welcomed there without quarantine.
 

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get supplies at the hardware or lumber yard? or paint store?
No, unless the repairs are essential to the public interest. Certainly not just getting work done on your property that can be delayed a few weeks or months.

Really, it isn't hard dude!

Willful ignorance, obfuscation justification argumentation - I'll say it again you are part of the problem.

Stay in Place - means in your home. Includes your yard, yes whatever hobbies or maintenance, on YOUR property.

Walking for exercise in the neighborhood is OK in some places, where it is easy to stay away from others. Call town hall to clarify about parks etc.

But NOT driving around!

Unless

1. Buying required food or medicine other necessities, like your required substances if an addict e.g. alcoholics.

**for your own household** or vulnerable neighbors

NOT diving an hour away to visit family or friends, under cover of delivering **their** necessities.

Life saving emergencies excepted.

2. Going to work at your job in an essential operation allowed to remain operating.

There is a list for your jurisdiction.

In France this included florists.

It is **not** appropriate to sputter "that's ridiculous!" take it up at an appropriate time and place with the relevant authorities.

3. Life threatening, medical etc emergencies excepted of course.

> What I would like to understand better is how this thing is spreading? In more detail.

It's all out there, do your research. Not from rightwing crackpots like on Fox of course.
 

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The virus particles are protein with a fatty protective coating. Soap with warm water penetrates the protective coating and destroys the virus. >70% Alcohol (IPA, ethanol) does too.

Gloves can make it worse if not used properly. It's hard to take them off without touching infected areas. Personally, I wash them with soapy water, just like I would with bare hands, then take them off. I've never seen this recommended, so YMMV. But if the soap destroys the virus on skin, it would destroy it on gloves, so that's what I do.

Your observation about the Bronx is scary. I never see population density like that anywhere near me. Around me (and most suburban areas), it's very easy to walk around your neighborhood and stay 10+ feet away from everyone.

The virus is destroyed by UV (sunlight). This, plus low population density and constantly moving air, makes it very unlikely to get infected outside, including from shoes on the ground. That's my OPINION, but I'm glad you brought this possibility up. It is worth checking into. We do not wear shoes in the house, and this is one good reason for that. Our dog, on the other hand, doesn't wear shoes anywhere, so might track something in.

Maybe this will help. It's been circulated around the internet attributed to Johns Hopkins Hospital, though I have not been able to find a JH website that actually has this text, so take it with a grain of salt:

I’ve been trained by food sanitation experts as well as my wife ( a nurse who wears multiple gloves daily.

There is a way to remove gloves without touching the infected area. It is necessary to do this as you don’t want to wear the gloves you had on say to get groceries and touching the cart, and then touch the steering wheel with them.

Take them off correctly, and either 1 use sanitizer when in the car, or 2 immediately was with soap for 20 seconds

Here’s a good video on the proper technique

 

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Dave, you still provide no definition of "stay put". Do you leave your house to walk around your neighborhood?

I am not looking to circumvent anything. I am following Governor Wolf's stay-at-home directive, and making appropriate use of the exceptions that he spells out. The nearly full tank of gas in my car is evidence that I have modified my behavior greatly. We have no intention of entering Maryland by car or boat until it is clear that we would be welcomed there without quarantine.
The governors executive order is clear you can walk around you neighborhood maintaining the 6 ft distance.

Now it looks like you should have a face covering on to prevent your droplets from getting on things accord to Dr Faulci. No using N95 masks

Knowing you the little I do I have no doubt you are compliant. 😀But you want real answers...like I do...I think they will come in time
 

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The virus particles are protein with a fatty protective coating. Soap with warm water penetrates the protective coating and destroys the virus. >70% Alcohol (IPA, ethanol) does too.

Gloves can make it worse if not used properly. It's hard to take them off without touching infected areas. Personally, I wash them with soapy water, just like I would with bare hands, then take them off. I've never seen this recommended, so YMMV. But if the soap destroys the virus on skin, it would destroy it on gloves, so that's what I do.

Your observation about the Bronx is scary. I never see population density like that anywhere near me. Around me (and most suburban areas), it's very easy to walk around your neighborhood and stay 10+ feet away from everyone.

The virus is destroyed by UV (sunlight). This, plus low population density and constantly moving air, makes it very unlikely to get infected outside, including from shoes on the ground. That's my OPINION, but I'm glad you brought this possibility up. It is worth checking into. We do not wear shoes in the house, and this is one good reason for that. Our dog, on the other hand, doesn't wear shoes anywhere, so might track something in.

Maybe this will help. It's been circulated around the internet attributed to Johns Hopkins Hospital, though I have not been able to find a JH website that actually has this text, so take it with a grain of salt:
Good explaining the soaps relationship.
Soap works best in water 120 but will still work in less.

https://www.berkeleywellness.com/self-care/preventive-care/article/handwashing-does-water-temperature-matter
 

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For those who use CPaps , don’t forget to really clean daily. This is critical

Mines a nose pillow but also those who have mask...soap and hot water
Water resevoir- soap and hot water
head Tube - soup and hot water
Heated tubing - soap and hot water.

I’m not sure the machines that self clean use soap as I don’t have one.
 

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We wear masks in any public building, like grocery stores. We have not started wearing them outside in the neighborhood. I have an inventory of ~30 masks purchased months ago for use while mowing the lawn to minimize inhaling pollen. They are not surgical grade (so can't be donated), but we're going to make bandana masks because I don't want to get dirty looks from people.

We just sent 10 of our masks (plus 5 bandanas) to my son who is visiting his girlfriend's family in Nassau county and now can't come home. I have one used N95 and one brand new one, and I'm hanging on to those because at some point I am going to have no choice but to fly back to Milwaukee since I am considered an essential employee. I've managed to stay home for the last 3 weeks, but there is hands-on lab work that cannot be delayed beyond mid-April.
 

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I wash the gloves as would wash my hands in hot water with soap. Then I remove and wash my hands.

Elsie wipes the door handle with alcohol. regularly after we return to the apartment. We don't treat the groceries as if they are contaminated. But of course products could have virus on them. Same with delivered packages.

She takes a shower upon entering the house. We take out street clothes off in the front hall, our shows and coats of course.

I would like to see the super wiping down the elevator and building door handles. I will out some signs in the elevator... occupancy by no more than 2 people and of the same family. We have to elevator cabs and if there one comes and is occupied I don't take it.

Our area is medium density.. low rise apartment bldgs and private homes. There are few people on the street but the Korean market is usually full of people. I am not going there because line is too long as well. I'll have to begin shopping at 7am.

Food shopping should be at designated hours ...whether by age, or birth date... divided into 6 shopping times. 7-9, 9-11, 11-1, 1-3, 3-5, 5-7, then 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 perhaps. Or days of the week. No hoarding permitted.

We need more compliance and cooperation.
 

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The virus particles are protein with a fatty protective coating. Soap with warm water penetrates the protective coating and destroys the virus. >70% Alcohol (IPA, ethanol) does too.

Gloves can make it worse if not used properly. It's hard to take them off without touching infected areas. Personally, I wash them with soapy water, just like I would with bare hands, then take them off. I've never seen this recommended, so YMMV. But if the soap destroys the virus on skin, it would destroy it on gloves, so that's what I do.

Your observation about the Bronx is scary. I never see population density like that anywhere near me. Around me (and most suburban areas), it's very easy to walk around your neighborhood and stay 10+ feet away from everyone.

The virus is destroyed by UV (sunlight). This, plus low population density and constantly moving air, makes it very unlikely to get infected outside, including from shoes on the ground. That's my OPINION, but I'm glad you brought this possibility up. It is worth checking into. We do not wear shoes in the house, and this is one good reason for that. Our dog, on the other hand, doesn't wear shoes anywhere, so might track something in.

Maybe this will help. It's been circulated around the internet attributed to Johns Hopkins Hospital, though I have not been able to find a JH website that actually has this text, so take it with a grain of salt:
See here: https://www.sailnet.com/forums/2051662006-post567.html

And here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/johns-hopkins-covid-summary/

Mark
 

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The virus particles are protein with a fatty protective coating. Soap with warm water penetrates the protective coating and destroys the virus. >70% Alcohol (IPA, ethanol) does too.



Gloves can make it worse if not used properly. It's hard to take them off without touching infected areas. Personally, I wash them with soapy water, just like I would with bare hands, then take them off. I've never seen this recommended, so YMMV. But if the soap destroys the virus on skin, it would destroy it on gloves, so that's what I do.



Your observation about the Bronx is scary. I never see population density like that anywhere near me. Around me (and most suburban areas), it's very easy to walk around your neighborhood and stay 10+ feet away from everyone.



The virus is destroyed by UV (sunlight). This, plus low population density and constantly moving air, makes it very unlikely to get infected outside, including from shoes on the ground. That's my OPINION, but I'm glad you brought this possibility up. It is worth checking into. We do not wear shoes in the house, and this is one good reason for that. Our dog, on the other hand, doesn't wear shoes anywhere, so might track something in.



Maybe this will help. It's been circulated around the internet attributed to Johns Hopkins Hospital, though I have not been able to find a JH website that actually has this text, so take it with a grain of salt:
Careful....this quote DID NOT originate from John's Hopkins, and they issued a statement saying that it was full of misinformation. For example Listerine is NOT effective against the virus.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
 

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Careful....this quote DID NOT originate from John's Hopkins, and they issued a statement saying that it was full of misinformation. For example Listerine is NOT effective against the virus.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
Not to mention sunlight does NOT kill this virus, and it is very easy to contact it from infected surfaces outdoors for quite a long time after infection.

The virus has a RNA core, not a protein one, and nucleic acids are not proteins. The virus does not change one's cells genetic code. Lots of the description of the virus itself is incorrect.

Mark
 

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Careful....this quote DID NOT originate from John's Hopkins, and they issued a statement saying that it was full of misinformation. For example Listerine is NOT effective against the virus.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
When I first saw the recommendations a week ago I searched fact checking websites and JHU website, and could not confirm or refute its authenticity. Since then, Snopes and JHU have apparently renounced it. (FWIW, Snopes called it misattributed, not false.)

I had posted a warning that I had been unable to verify it. Out of an abundance of caution, I have now deleted my post.
 
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