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Mike,

Sure no problem. (HA!) 2,000 mile straight shot. I’m out of country so I will be repatriating, my understanding is that, by international law (not that it will come to that) they are required to repatriate me and my next of kin. PROVIDED it don’t stop at Bermuda, St Pierre, or elsewhere. So I figure I would stop at Grand Banks, they should have customs due to the Ferry to St Pierre. I can’t imagine that shut down. From Grand Banks I can make my way around. I would have more than my 14 days quarantine in passage.

That’s about plan F or G. We are working on C now. LOL!!!!!

FWIW it seems Canada is making great efforts to bring folks home, chartering special flights and such. Reassuring.
 

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I think you've got it wrong on prisons. With the privatization of prisons the whole footing of our justice system has become big business, and all about money, not justice. Who do you think own the private prisons? Our legislators, just like they owned the drug testing labs when that system was instituted and, I imagine, the TSA schools and uniform/equipment suppliers.
That a bunch of schlubs get employment out of it is just a by-product of the wealthy getting wealthier.
Capta,

This is one of those areas where my economic theory has departed near Earth orbit. I do believe I’m correct but it takes a hell of a lot of explaining, not really for a internet thread. Below is a brief attempt.

In the first place I completely agree with everything you have said above.

There is a story about some famous economist attending a NYC black tie dinner. He is trying to describe how the economy works. In a fit he grabs a clean, folded napkin from a waiter. “See this napkin, it has no value to the economy. It is clean and neat, perfect. It requires nothing.” He throws it on the floor and stomps on it wrinkling and soiling it. “Now THIS napkin is of value, it needs to be cleaned and folded and put back into service. It will generate work and the flow of money.”

Consider this:
We live in a CONSUMER society.
The prisoners are like the dirty napkin, they need things.
And because they need things they generate work and the flow of money.
Prisoners are valuable to the economy as “Perfect Consumers.” They consume and generate work for others.
Their JOB is to create work for others, to stimulate money flow.

How many jobs?
Construction
Guards
Maintenance
Food service
Social services
Health (funny prisoners get socialized health care!)
The Courts
Their lawyers
And probably a bunch I can’t think of now.

2.3 MILLION prisoners.

I did public sector consulting, transit. In some cases I saw a LOT of useless employees. Do nothings collecting a check. Vastly over inflated work forces. I call that kind of thing “Workfare”. Or “Unemployment with dignity.” Why do we tolerate such lack of efficiency? Because it circulates money. Prisoners are no different, they stimulate the flow of money in the system.

The only difference between that and a Guaranteed Income is the fig leaf that we get a valuable service in return.

Now I’m not arguing absolutes, some folks need to be locked up, hell I’ll even stipulate to a certain amount of airport security work being necessary. But the difference between what is efficient and needed and what exists is astounding.

So I looked at it from a backward Darwinian perspective. If a bird species has a crossed bill what is the reason? Oh it’s for pine nuts!!! We have a grossly bloated prison system, what is the reason? And here I am.
 

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I don't want to get on a rant about airport security. Suffice it to say I'm no fan of this security theatre we're all subjected to. And I also think it's a good example of the authoritarian outcomes which I am increasingly concerned about in this time of whoa.
Typo or intentional pun? :grin
 

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Off topic:

We know a fellow who works at a major US airport in TSA security. Bombs are in fact intercepted on a regular basis, they just don’t make the news for obvious reasons. I’m OK with having increased airport security.
Statement with no evidence... this is irresponsible. Hearsay rubbish.
I think it would deserve one of those half true monikers, from various rating sites. The TSA routinely finds what appear to be bombs or bomb making materials, which will evacuate the screening location for hours. Typically, they turn out to be inert, but look like explosives, such as a dummy grenade or a prop.

What they do find are more than 300 loaded firearms in carry on luggage per month!! About another 50 per month, unloaded.

Yes, we need airport security. I don't believe each one is intended to be used aboard, but WTF? I'm pro-2nd, but only if you follow the rules. These idiots should pay.
 

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The Israelis EL has the best security. It’s a shame the US doesn’t follow their protocols.

I have no doubt Minnie is right about how many weapons have been found trying to get aboard. He would have knowledge. The pilots, airline employees , and passengers have a right to stay safe.

Taking an airplane is not a right protected by the Constitution. I don’t care if they search every passenger with a proctoscope to insure there are no weapons or contraband. If you don’t want to be examined the solution is simple....don’t fly.

I am not commenting whether TSA does a good job....that’s a different issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
The Israelis EL has the best security. It’s a shame the US doesn’t follow their protocols..
Back when I was flying a lot, El Al had a separate entrance for the pilots and no access to the cabin from the flight deck. They had a flight engineer in the cabin for mechanical emergencies, but there was no reason to hijack a plane since you couldn't get to the pilots.
I was told the pilots were under orders to fly to their destination no matter what was going on in the cabin. At that time, and maybe still, they'd never had a hijacking.
Perfectly simple solution to the problem. The bad guys could blow the plane up, but they couldn't hijack it and use it for their purposes.
 
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S2 7.9 Bear Lake, UT
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Based on my financial adviser's advice we had been selling off stocks the last year. 50% of my worth is liquid and I only lost 10% of my value in this last drop. The plan is to buy back into the market on an equal amount over the next 3 years. My degree is in economics so I can understand how he rationalizes this all and makes his decisions, but I rely on him to make the calls, as he knows a lot more about this than I, and his track record and my frugal nature has allowed me to retire early.

He sees the market bottoming out and turning back up in the next 3 years based on historical norms. I am a little more pessimistic and think too many things are unpredictable, we still have no idea when we can come out of our caves and the world economy can restart.
 

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Half the US population doesn't have the stomach for El Al's security protocols. They do not treat everyone fairly, nor randomly pat down limping 80 year old women to try and prove otherwise. Our TSA deserves criticism, but the stupid rules they are required to follow imparts a sense of uselessness on them. They know they are being told to waste their time. Imagine how jaded a security guard would become if they were told you can't diligently watch the unlocked front door, you have to spend half your time on the locked door on the roof, that no one can get to, so the front doors feel this is fair. I'm encouraged to read there are some who support a better system.
 

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Security at airports etc. is off topic. I think the problem is the TSA is a hammer and everyone one becomes a nail. They really need to do some sort of sensible "profiling". Of course anyone can be a terrorist. But the data shows who are the people committing acts of terrorism. It's not old ladies and old men... or young children... or families traveling.

We now go through xray and metal detection to enter many buildings... all gov buildings in NYC (not the DMV in Yonkers) but YES at the Department of Buildings in NYC. I would imagine more people are pissed at the DMV than at the DOB! :wink

TSA is very annoying and I am sure their workers are not loving their work.

The world has changed so much in my lifetime... lots for the better but as I say...

you get what you want but loose what you had...

Leave it to Beaver :laugh

:ship-captain:
 

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Let’s not get side tracked on TSA. It came up only as an example of how we invent unnecessary jobs. TSA is like many other organizations, they have a purpose but they get expanded beyond credulity. I will give a different example for illustration.

In the Dominican Republic you need to check in with 7 (SEVEN) different agencies. Some guys just come out to the boat with the Navy for the walk. One guy actually came on the boat, the Navy guy told him to not touch anything. Then on shore it took us 2 days to find the guy who took our couple of bucks for garbage collection. In the French islands you go to a computer in some shop or restaurant and check yourself in, giving the proprietary a few euros for the counter space used. The USA lies somewhere in the middle. I check into Canada over the phone.

Those 7 folks in the DR all have government sponsored jobs. You don’t need a separate person to collect and record the garbage fee. His total time involved over a week is likely less than 4 hours. The job exists so that the government has a way of giving out money and collecting allegiance. In short it is “Unemployment with Dignity.” The difference between it and “Guaranteed Minimum Income” is psychological.

And this kind of thing exists throughout the USA. Maybe not quite so blatant but it is there none the less. That you may not have come across it in your personal experience does not mean it does not exist. I’m kind of an efficiency nut so I am “triggered” (to use a current phrase) by examples. Also I worked in and later with public agencies, some of which are bloated, to paralyzation, with excess staff.

But why listen to me when it has been explained with much more skill by an eminent mathematician and philosopher. I go again back to Bertrand Russel’s fine essay “In Praise of Idleness”. In short he points out that in WWI UK, with every available working man in France, UK production ROSE. Clearly there was then great excess human capacity. And how could it be less now?

So use my self-famous reverese Darwinian analysis and ask: if such is so, it must serve a purpose, what is that purpose? If we are so tolerant of inefficiency in our work places, it must serve a purpose, what is that purpose?

The next time you are standing in some line or hanging on a phone to argue a medical insurance claim, use your time efficiently and ponder that question.

If we are so tolerant of inefficiency in our work places, it must serve a purpose, what is that purpose?

https://libcom.org/files/Bertrand Russell - In Praise of Idleness.pdf
 

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... The job exists so that the government has a way of giving out money and collecting allegiance. In short it is “Unemployment with Dignity.” The difference between it and “Guaranteed Minimum Income” is psychological.
I agree, it is psychological, but it is to placate those that believe giving people access to resources they need (money) is somehow morally wrong. Not the other way around.

... sure hope we can both get back to Lewisporte this season. So many beers to consume, so much to discuss :).
 

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I agree, it is psychological, but it is to placate those that believe giving people access to resources they need (money) is somehow morally wrong. Not the other way around.

... sure hope we can both get back to Lewisporte this season. So many beers to consume, so much to discuss :).
Sure that side of the equation is valid. Let’s not quibble over the percent split ala “Nature v Nurture.” We agree in large on the event if not the intentions.

(And then to argue) it is important that people have some way to fit and contribute. Just providing money doesn’t work. And it seems folks need some kind of direction. OK, fine, give them direction. Make a list of “jobs” and dole them out. Make patches like they do in the Navy to provide rating/job description. They can put the patch on a baseball cap or sash or broach. I know it sounds silly but I truly think there is something to it. AND then when folks say “Where is my money going?” You have something to point to.

Roadside recycling engineer - pick up litter
Human support person - go talk to a depressed person
Highway signage enhancer- cut the brush from in front of signs
Animal support person - provide affection to unwanted dogs and cat ... (if my FB is any indication that itself would involve half the population)
Gardener - garden
Flowerer - grow flowers for public spaces and offices

Beer - down here they have MaKeesons, a bit sweeter and heavier than Guinness. I’m always amazed that Guinness is
Lite beer!
 

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He sees the market bottoming out and turning back up in the next 3 years based on historical norms.
I'm not going to argue against a financial advisor with more knowledge and education in this than me, but 3 years to hit bottom and begin to come back up seems very pessimistic.

Unlike previous times, the economy went from full employment and output to a complete stop in essentially a day. There were no supply outstripping demand, entire industries under pressure, entire productions made obsolete, non-tangiable asset bubbles popping, wars, etc like what has caused all previous recessions and depressions.

Just resupplying our consumption during this stop will make the economy take off again when the stops are withdrawn.

So I personally think we haven't reached the bottom yet, but it won't take three years to do so. When we do reach bottom, I think recovery will be quick and 3 years from now it will be just an economic memory and an example in textbooks.

And I'm pessimistic about this.

Mark
 

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Just resupplying our consumption during this stop will make the economy take off again when the stops are withdrawn.
I have zero predictions about this but I think you are forgetting that some outrageous percentage of the population runs their finances on a check to check basis. Here in Alberta the government is struggling (not really since they are way right leaning) to decide whether to support the individuals so they don't go bankrupt, small business so they can survive at all or big business so they will still be able to employ workers after it is all over. Problem is there isn't enough money to prop everyone up so they have to make their best guess. They've chosen big business which is ok I guess, but life isn't going to be the same when all is said and done for all the individuals who are weekly falling behind on utilities, rent/mortgages, credit card bills etc. It's going to take months/years for them to crawl out from under that.

I figure no matter what choices the governments make there is going to be some real long-term effects.
 

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Seems to me... what do I know... that there is lots of work in the States... especially in and around urban centers:

Upgrade infrastructure - roads, bridges, walks, bike paths, parks, water and sewage systems, existing rail systems, stations for rail an buses, upgrading docks and waterfronts, re-purposing power stations to cleaner energy, green refits for existing buildings - residential, educational and commercial, historic restorations.

New infrastructure - high speed rail, solar farms, wind farms, new recylcing facilities, factories for batteries, solar cells. green housing inventory, clean energy mass transit

Planting millions of trees

Cleaning... Lots of cleaning to do in some places.
 

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I think the market will turn and have recovered within 3-4 months after the virus restrictions end. Maybe not to the crazy high of Jan, but to where if you draw a line on the graph from the ramp up from last Fall it will line up when you disregard the up and down spike.

What is comes to is:
- you ate in the market for growth
- you have decided you have enough and getting out to “lock in”

In order words, nothing really has changed.
 

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S2 7.9 Bear Lake, UT
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New infrastructure - high speed rail, solar farms, wind farms, new recylcing facilities, factories for batteries, solar cells. green housing inventory, clean energy mass transit

Planting millions of trees

Cleaning... Lots of cleaning to do in some places.
We will need a new administration before any of those projects will be prioritized.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/27/trump-pollution-laws-epa-allows-companies-pollute-without-penalty-during-coronavirus
 
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