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yeah that was a funny comment(second to last)

I am NOT of the opinion that you are safe size when people comment on the size of your anchor and admire its grandness...thats like compensating for something...

its not the size its how you use it! jajaja

and that brings brains into the equation...

I can say that I have had small anchors dig in down here(sand mud and daily tides) that could not be recovered and had to be cut...

having a bigger one would simply mean you are losing more money...

anchors are like oil threads but there are great anchors for specific bottom types and some that are better than others and some that are basically just a dead weight

I have used dead weights as anchors too...jajaja

in any case

safe sailing....

ps...If I cant manhandle my anchor and rode without a windlass then ID rather downsize the boat...

but thats me

so that puts me at a max 45lber anchor give or take and 100 feet of chain...

I used to have an all chain rode on my last cruising boat but it was smaller so it could be done BUT I was also a lot younger

NOW having said that I had some really really rough haul ups a couple of times

once in panama when you get those massive micro burst windshifts that makes you change from on side of flamingo anchorage to the other and the chop was just too much

and then a couple of times down here fighting a massive ebb around 6 knots or so during the rainy season...and the water level was really really high almost flooding the estuary homes and such.

in any case

safe anchoring
 

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I am very happy with a Manson Supreme correctly sized for the boat. Of equal importance is the length of chain. For a 29 foot boat I carry 150 feet of chain, plus another 150 feet of nylon warp. Anchored out in a storm strong enough to make that lot drag would probably break deck fittings or sink the boat first, so I don't plan on being there anyway!
For kedging, another old Bruce with 30 feet of chain plus short warp and a spare CQR lives in the stern locker. Any more ground tackle would be too heavy and upset the trim.
on my old heavy wooden ketch(11lbs or so loaded up for cruising) we used 200 feet of chain and about 50 feet emergency extra rode

roughly 250feet of rode

most anchorage for our cruising area that time were in the 10-25feet meaning we always had PLENTY of scope of need be

the weight of the oversize chain(yes the chain was oversize not the anchor) also lessened the blow a lot if you will by acting like a catenary

in fact id guess in 80 percent of our anchoring scenarios(I like to anchor away from boats cause I like more scope) we never actually pulled on the anchor but simply relied on the weight of the chain to keep us in place if you will

we usually used 6 to 1 or more just for peace of mind

in tight anchorages we just moved and didnt like to be the guy with more scope than the rest when every body else was 3 to 1 or 4 to 1

I knew plenty of folks on bigger boats who had that mentality

Oh my anchor is really big...I have a windlass and Im good to go dropping 45 feet of chain in 15 feet of water

they also said something to the likes of since I have a windlass its so easy to relocate and drop the anchor somewhere else

jajajaja
 

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FOr those of you thinking ALL chain is best.....it is in DEEPER water per the recent number of test by the monthly rags. Otherwise, if in less than about 30' IIRC, an all chain with 5-1 vs a boatlength and 7-1, found both setups on the anchor only in about 20-25knots of wind.
What seems to be the issue, is as noted, a combo of wt and size of flukes for best holding power! Chain or rope is irrelevant to a degree. Yes more chain is better in coral or rocky situations, but clay or sand, a larger faced anchor is best.

Generally speaking, from what I have seen from anchor manufactures, 40 knots seems to be the max recommended for the std anchor recommendation. If you go up to a hurricane, you need to upsize 1-3 sizes depending upon the boat wt, shape, frontal area/wind resistance of the boat to get the proper size to hold in higher winds.

Some sites like a danforth, you can find the lbs of holding power of ea anchor, so if you can figure out how much the approx force your boat will do in say std wind range up to 20 knots if that is common for you, you want a smaller anchor as you race ready to deploy per the rules, you can figure out the smaller anchor you need to meet rules, anchor if need be etc. Hence why I have a 9 lb fast set in the front of my boat ALL the time. It will not hold me in a hurricane, but will if I want to set it in less than 10-15 kntos of wind, or hold me if I am going backwards due to tide, and the wind has died and I can not use the motor racing.....

On the other hand I have a 16lb "BRUCE" that came with the boat, 15' of 1/4HT chain and 250' of 9/16" three strand, the previous owner used to sail and anchor all over the salish sea, spending the night etc. I have yet to have issues with this in upwards of 35-40 knot gusts in 3-4' waves with 7-1.

If I was going to be anchoring potentially in a hurricane, I could see a 30-40 lbs anchor, at least twice the chain and a size or two up and enough rode to get me to the 10-1 range. This is for a 30' 7K lb boat mind you that is fairly wind resistant. Unlike say a PH, DS or CC style. OR a catamaran, some power boats are also more likely to have to also deal with windage pushing them, so a size larger or two for the same winds will be needed.

Reality as said by many, there is not a right or wrong per say, but if the emanual winch can not get it up off the sea floor, it is too big for my back per say. With my small boat, an all chain is not going to be what I use, I'll stick to a boat length max of chain, decent sized anchor as needed, and plenty of rope road to keep the pull as level as need be on the anchor.

marty
 

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on my current boat and because if the local bottom sand mud I have switched to around 25 feet of chain or so and nylon rode...one for ease of handling and the other reasons cause of what you say too

its a great combo for our areas...
 

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The only way your anchor can be too big is if the windlass can't handle it. If you anchor a lot, in varied conditions, your ground tackle is the difference between sleeping soundly or waking in the middle of the night banging on a reef, rock or someone else's boat. Why would you "cheap out" on such an important bit of equipment? I really do not understand your point; why wouldn't you move up a size or two if you could afford it? What is the negative side to a larger anchor?
Though if you are living on $500.00 a month, and you need to justify having an anchor that barely does the job, then of course, someone who has an oversize anchor would seem to have "a lot of rampant paranoia".
I personally have a a 24 ft boat weights in at 4800 plus gear my primary is an s 1300 Danforth with 30 ft of chain for primary supposedly good for 36 ft vessel an my storm anchor I a 27 lb fortress with 30 ft of 5/8 Chain rated for a 40 ft vessel I paid 20 bucks for the fortress before I purchased the fortress I tested a larger one and had some issues with setting it wit my engine the 27 was the largest I could set with confidence consistently the biggest problem I ad was recovery after a big storm I had to use my sheet winch to recover it out of the bottom
 

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i am sooooo glad you all approve of the anchor which has served me so well over the past 3000 miles/3 years of cruising in areas requiring tough tackle.
yes my chain IS too small..i actually should be using 3/8, but it wouldnt fit my windlasses. so i use 5/16.
i anchor in deep as well as shallow water. our shallow water has poooorest ever holding, so 160 feet on bottom doesnt drag, as does 120 and 75 and other more appropriate numbers. some here use a kellet instead of extra chain. here is an example of where NOT to use a delta anchor, as cruisers who used those have dragged anchor.
all chain in mandatory in areas wherein sand or mud are only part of the bottom configuration. we have rocks with some sand.. here is silt with some lotta sand.
i watched as the short scope boats went sailing as fast as the wind here, and in only 15-20 kts. my set up , which is 30 KG bruce, original, thankyou , ray, and 160 ft on bottom of 5/16 chain. i have held in 40+ kts of winds here with the foul bottom. knocking wood hard as i typo here....
what i have to say is--FORGET THE PRINTED BS. go with your gutz. if your instincts say drop more chain..DO IT. if your instincts say to use bigger anchor or use different type of anchor... go with what your gutz tell you to do .otherwise you , too, will meet stuff you dont wanna meet, and have to do the kedging off a beach...
AND, NEVER EVER anchor with anchor towards beach unless you want to live on that beach forever. drags you into beach.,you want to drag into deeper water so no damage to boat. it is easier to get a ride to a self sailing boat than it is to restore it after rocky coast has damaged it. drop anchor in 25 ft water, back it down with your transom facing beach. we on lee shores know this .

i can barely lift my bruce, but with help of manual windlass and line to mast winch, i can do it...have done this sola. is not a speed race situation. in emergency, drop my cqr and sort it out tomorrow.

as for setting a heavy anchor..it essentially will set itself. there are situations wherein backing down on you r tackle to set it will only bring it up for dragging anchor..i am in one of those lagoons in which this happens frequently. a cqr, in particular, is one which will UN set when backing down on it. is why no one likes em.. set them correctly and they are golden.
i prefer 30 kg over 45 pounds, so i use my bruce.
what i do is i drop my heavy anchor. it penetrates the hardpan.. go figger... and then wind sets me. anchor in 20 kts for best results. let out your chain away from anchor.
.another mistake others do is dump it on top of anchor so shank is befouled and there is a dragging situation just waiting for some wind.

anchor tests are done in and under controlled situations.... beware these do not include those in which you are now setting yours..lol
 

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Jon- I'm not pissing down your back when I tell you I have the utmost respect for your experience and intelligence but on this one respectfully disagree. As explained before there is little question physics suggest the larger a well found boat is the safer it is. We agree there is a limit where single source failures make a boat to large to be safe for the average cruiser. I think that's around 40-50' if proper forethought has been applied. We agree that single source failures that can present a major safety risk should be avoided. Things like failure of a mandrel in an in mast or in boom main furle, or dependence on powered winches and the like. However with ground tackle you rapidly come to a point where dependence on power is required. Even on my little PSC34 I would have put in a powered windlass if I was to hold on to the boat.
Admittedly the prudent mariner uses the windlass to pick up the chain when it's "up and down" and the engine to move the boat forward in to position. Admittedly the same mariner uses wave action and boat motion to break the anchor free. Still chain weighs and chain is safer than rode. See the letters to editor in the most recent Practical Sailor for a very cogent exposition of why using chain and a lot of it is as important as a heavy anchor. In the trade off of bigger boat resulting in heavier chain/anchor it seems clear we will have a situation that in any reasonably sized cruiser a powered windlass will be required. Yes you can create redundancy. I have powered winches. With a rolling hitch, a rug on the side deck I can still get the anchor up. Yes I'll need a functioning electrical system. But when considering getting the anchor down and boat secure is usually more important than getting it up and at an extreme can still put a winch handle into the windlass I still go with moderate sized boat, lots of chain and big anchor.
My concern in this thread is the increasing practice of folks routinely using 5 to 1 or less with the new series of anchors.
I don't disagree with any of that. I think perhaps you might misunderstand what I mean by a 'larger boat", however :)

Your Outbound might be a bit larger than I'd ever be comfortable owning, but it's not of a size that really makes me nervous... In very broad terms, anything much more than 50' starts giving me pause, and 55' or above is pushing it, in terms of my comfort level of taking offshore... I've singlehanded Trintella 47s and a 50 quite a bit, and despite their massive and very powerful rigs, they're not that much of an handfull (As long as all the buttons work when you press them, of course)... Still, pretty much at the limit of what I'd want to sail alone...

But back to anchor size, I'd always want to be able to move the anchor around the boat by myself... For instance, if you're looking at a long passage with the potential for some rough or upwind sailing, it can be really nice to get the anchor(s) off the bow, and stowed away from the ends of the boat... More importantly, I'd never want to be unable to move a storm anchor on deck and over the side by myself. On MORGAN'S CLOUD, John Harries' Big Bertha is a 150 lb fisherman... No thank you, I can't imagine having to deal with such an unwieldy anchor of that size...

Another important parameter for me regarding boat size, is mast height. this is where my wimpiness really comes into play :) I believe any cruiser really going places should be able to get himself to the top of the rig, unassisted... Your boat is right at the upper limit for me, the 80' stick on a Trintella 50, fuggedabouddit...

Not sure what I would die of first - exhaustion, or fright :)


 

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Well it is 4 am, it is blowing 50 knots, it is pitch black AND it is raining.
Does anybody say I want a smaller anchor - NOT ME!
What a wonderful post. I'm still laughing! Now I can't wait for hurricane season so I can run up to the foredeck at the height of the blow and yell, "I wish I had a smaller anchor." just like you (I know you said you don't say that, but I know you secretly want to).
Thanks for the great mental picture. Anybody on here a cartoonist?
 

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Thanks Jon . Is that trinella aluminum ? Sure is pretty. Make you feel any better my wife at 110 lbs is the stick monkey. She actually likes going up there. First day we had the boat she went up to the mast head" I want to look around" I'm keeping her fuggettabotit
 

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I thought the general rule of rum for sailor is always go 1 size up, that is, if 28footer is good, 30 is better, if 35lbs anchor is ok, go for 45, if Lewmar 16 will do the job, 30 it is. Why go less when you can easily go more and large and heavier? ;)
 

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Understanding that we live on the hook at least 350 days out of the year, having an oversize anchor makes the first mate sleep well at night. In the beginning she wasn't happy unless I put out both our anchors until we got caught in a 70mph storm and held with one anchor.
It was/is very nice not pulling up 2 anchors everyday.
 

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I thought the general rule of rum for sailor is always go 1 size up, that is, if 28footer is good, 30 is better, if 35lbs anchor is ok, go for 45, if Lewmar 16 will do the job, 30 it is. Why go less when you can easily go more and large and heavier? ;)

like extra mega super sizing your macdonalds combo?
 
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