looking at a 1981 Morgan Outislander ketch 41.5, would this be a hand full for a novice sailor who wants to spend the next 5 yrs. sailing in the Caribbean? Then who knows? I would start out alone. I intend to hone my skills for the next 6 months, chartering a boat twice a month in Galveston Bay. Or, should I set my sights on something smaller, say in the low 30's? What would be a good choice in that size? I'm OK up to about $80,000 that is what I have saved for this venture, after $80000 I would seriously look at a new Catalina 315. I would prefer a strong hull so as not to sink if I hit something, I believe through reading this site that older boats are more robust. Not interested in refurbishing a boat, I'm qualified but have no desire, looking for something turnkey. I'm seeking a balance (a complete package, boat design, electronics, rigging, etc all areas that make up a good sailing boat) that only wisdom can provide so I look to you, you seasoned veterans who seen an accomplished what I am dreaming about... thanks augie
your thoughts for a new sailor
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The "art" of single handing a boat is more about logic and layout of lines and gear. I'd not be afraid to SH and 41ft boat but Know it would be more work with more sails then a sloop rig.
When I made the decision to get a sail boat. I was talked into getting smaller when I knew I wanted 30ft + I sold the 23 ft for and went for a 30. Now that seems small.
Fiberglass boats don't do well when they hit things like cargo containers floating around the gulf (don't know how true that is) New or old.. Steel is about the only material that people take out with the idea it will survive hitting things. Proper and well maintained survival gear would be a wise approach rather then think you can get a boat that will not sink from "user error"
Welcome to SailNet!
When I made the decision to get a sail boat. I was talked into getting smaller when I knew I wanted 30ft + I sold the 23 ft for and went for a 30. Now that seems small.
Fiberglass boats don't do well when they hit things like cargo containers floating around the gulf (don't know how true that is) New or old.. Steel is about the only material that people take out with the idea it will survive hitting things. Proper and well maintained survival gear would be a wise approach rather then think you can get a boat that will not sink from "user error"
Welcome to SailNet!
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712 Posts
Do the "learning part" first. It is human nature to look at a "wish book" and visualize yourself on the deck of your 41 footer, only to realize later you've got about 10' more boat than you can handle safely by yourself and have fun doing it. Sure, look around while your getting your experience, but put more emphisis on the later. My .02.
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These days many people get their feet wet , so to speak, by buying a large cruiser. I would suggest that you get some experience with a small day sailor. If you are lucky , maybe get to crew on a small racing day sailor such as a Lightning. You will learn faster and better IMHO. Get to know how to set the sails for various wind conditions, read the wind etc.. Once you have experience in a small boat, moving up to a larger boat will be easier and more satisfying.
As to an Out Island ketch, I would opt for a sloop. The extra expense of another mast, sails etc.. is not outweighed by the advantages. When those Morgans were built, roller furlers were not as popular as today. Are they more robust, i.e. thicker hulls would be the main advantage. Initially they were built for the charter trade and not the best sailing boat but do have large interiors. There are so many options out there if you have 80k to spend. Figure on spending half of that on a boat and the balance bringing the boat up to snuff and future maintenance unless you are very lucky and do find a turn key boat.
In any case, I wish you the best in your pursuit. I am sure you will get many differing opinions as how to get started but the sport (lifestyle) is well worth the effort.
As to an Out Island ketch, I would opt for a sloop. The extra expense of another mast, sails etc.. is not outweighed by the advantages. When those Morgans were built, roller furlers were not as popular as today. Are they more robust, i.e. thicker hulls would be the main advantage. Initially they were built for the charter trade and not the best sailing boat but do have large interiors. There are so many options out there if you have 80k to spend. Figure on spending half of that on a boat and the balance bringing the boat up to snuff and future maintenance unless you are very lucky and do find a turn key boat.
In any case, I wish you the best in your pursuit. I am sure you will get many differing opinions as how to get started but the sport (lifestyle) is well worth the effort.
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A fellow SailNetter bought this same boat (maybe different year), she single hands it, seems to feel it is comfortable for her. We've been on it a couple times. I still can't get over the manual bilge pump being in the engine compartment. Maybe someday I will but it seems odd to me.
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With the budget you are talking about you could do much better than an Out Islander. If you don't know how and why it is time to do a lot more research. The boat below is probably not the ideal but it is much better for what you are talking about, including the bit about going beyond the Caribbean possibly. This boat is $50k which is a lot more than many other CS 36Ts. No idea if this means it is cherry or just over-priced. This boat would sail better and be much tougher than a new 31' Catalina.
1982 Canadian Sailcraft Traditional Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
1982 Canadian Sailcraft Traditional Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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9,011 Posts
Sailing just isn't rocket science. It's not usually the sailing part where people get into trouble. I'm quite sure with a good boat and a few good books (Royce's Sailing Illustrated is by far my favorite), one could become a successful cruiser. Stay away from any book that implies that their way is the best or only way to do something; there are as many good ways to do most things aboard a boat, as there are sailors.
Choosing the right boat is only a matter of deciding what you want, need and will settle for, and go find the one that comes closest. Deciding what you want, need and what you will settle for is the rub. It takes sailing time on many boats. Instead of chartering, sail on other people's boats; as many different kinds of boats as you possibly can.
Of course, when I began sailing, there just weren't very many choices in boats. They were all pretty much heavy, ponderous, safe vessels of traditional design and most bought one of these, a book on celestial navigation, another on sailing and sailed over the horizon, gaining experience as they went.
So you could buy your OI 41 and sail over the horizon and probably do just fine. Or your charter idea would work, too. Or as I suggested, sail OPB's for half a year.
It's all about having fun and being safe, so choose the path that suits you best and Nikki and I will buy you a beverage when you sail into our anchorage on some magic isle, far away.
Choosing the right boat is only a matter of deciding what you want, need and will settle for, and go find the one that comes closest. Deciding what you want, need and what you will settle for is the rub. It takes sailing time on many boats. Instead of chartering, sail on other people's boats; as many different kinds of boats as you possibly can.
Of course, when I began sailing, there just weren't very many choices in boats. They were all pretty much heavy, ponderous, safe vessels of traditional design and most bought one of these, a book on celestial navigation, another on sailing and sailed over the horizon, gaining experience as they went.
So you could buy your OI 41 and sail over the horizon and probably do just fine. Or your charter idea would work, too. Or as I suggested, sail OPB's for half a year.
It's all about having fun and being safe, so choose the path that suits you best and Nikki and I will buy you a beverage when you sail into our anchorage on some magic isle, far away.
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257 Posts
If it were me and I had an 80k budget, I would spend a couple grand on a small 20-22 trailer sailor. Small enough to learn on, yet big enough to overnight/weekend on. Maybe take a year to learn how to sail, and enjoy some time on the water.....then....move up. But hey that's me, and what the hell do I know?
Augie - if you're looking to cruise, you may want to think about finding a boat somewhere in the 32-37 foot range that is in good shape, which you should be able to find great ones for less than $50k. The CS 36 noted above is a great example of that kind if boat.
Use the balance of your $80k for food, diesel, and rum and go cruising!
Here are some links to blogs of people who are cruising comfortably and safely on boats like this:
LAHOWIND | Sailing Blog | LAHOWIND | Sailing Blog | Welcome to our sailing blog! Get to know us, Jereme+Kim+Oliver the dog, as we attempt to navigate a whole new world of sailing!
KATIE & JESSIE on a boat | aboard lovely Louise?
Matt & Jessica's Sailing Page | Experiencing the world while it's still large
Rode Trip | We'll figure it out!
(Rode Trip is for sale, by the way)
Enjoy the search, and keep asking questions!
Also - the Morgan OI is a great boat, and it was design for sailing the Bahamas and Caribbean, so that wouldn't be a terrible choice. They can be single-handed, and it would give you room to host a significant number of guests and travelling companions. You can have a freakin' barn dance on the deck of an OI 41!
It is hard to find one in really good shape these days, though, and as others have said a larger boat will be much more expensive to maintain and operate than a smaller boat. It's not exponential, but there is definitely a non-liner relationship between the increasing size of a boat and the related expenses.
It is hard to find one in really good shape these days, though, and as others have said a larger boat will be much more expensive to maintain and operate than a smaller boat. It's not exponential, but there is definitely a non-liner relationship between the increasing size of a boat and the related expenses.
I was concerned about Alzheimer's but with all your replies and the shear content on your site you seasoned sailors will keep me on my toes, thanks. I have been spending inordinate amounts of my time looking at boats on-line, to the point where its becoming a blur, but a couple of Captains at the sailing school instructed me to start searching for a boat "after you pass ASA101", so that's what I've been doing. I've had my Baptism of Fire sailing mentor in Gal Bay in a squall, my solo in 19knt winds and 4 to 5's in the Gulf, so I have had a very small taste of the sea. As I stated I will hone my skills before attempting any long range sail and with your help will narrow my boat search and zero in on the "right one" thanks augie
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7,571 Posts
Everyone has their own idea and if you take the summation of all the advice here you eill see theres many avenues.
For $80,000 i would look for an all plastic ex-charter boat in the Caribbean. You will start your cruising immediately and maintenance would be low compared to a 30 year old boat.
$80k will give you a 40 footer less than 10 years old.
Mark
For $80,000 i would look for an all plastic ex-charter boat in the Caribbean. You will start your cruising immediately and maintenance would be low compared to a 30 year old boat.
$80k will give you a 40 footer less than 10 years old.
Mark
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3,488 Posts
Mark, Mark, MARK! What you say is true but if he takes your suggestion, the poor sod will likely end up with a Beneteau, maybe a 393, and then his life will REALLY be in danger. How could you, of all people, offer such bloody advise!!!
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9,011 Posts
What's wrong with you people? The guy's got 80g's for a boat and you want him to go camping? No shower, no stand up head room, crappy galley and most likely no refrigeration on a boat that certainly wouldn't be comfortable, let alone fun, crossing the channels between islands in the Caribbean, never mind sailing to the Caribbean. I just don't get it. You guys are nuts, or you've no idea what Caribbean sailing is like. It isn't flat (lake, harbor or bay) sailing, or even flat, calm anchorages, on a 20 to 30 footer, that's for sure. And the idea that he might want to trailer his boat to the Caribbean? Please! I suppose you think there's a dam* bridge between the states and the Caribbean? Guess what fellas, there ain't!
An OI 41 may not be a modern, go fast cruising boat, but it would be an infinitely more comfortable cruising home than some of your less thoughtful (helpful) suggestions.
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3,506 Posts
About as good as advice for a corinthian sailor to go out and buy the 40 footer, with little or no sailing experience. Just going to clog up another marina/boatyard in the field of broken dreams.
so forget the Beneteau! I was checking them out last night
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4,181 Posts
We are all different, but I would not get a 40 footer as my first boat. For 80G you can get a very nice sailboat in the 30-35 foot range that is fully prepared for extended cruising. It will be easier to handle and still provide plenty of room and comfort.
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4,181 Posts
Here is an awesome Baba35, in Texas.
1982 Tashing BABA 35 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
These are truly one of the best boats for what you want to do in your price range. Great design, safe, sails well, and this particular one comes very well equipped.
1982 Tashing BABA 35 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
These are truly one of the best boats for what you want to do in your price range. Great design, safe, sails well, and this particular one comes very well equipped.
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