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Wood, Diesel or propane bulkhead heating stove?

92K views 180 replies 63 participants last post by  Andrew65 
#1 · (Edited)
I like the look of the bulkhead stoves I've been seeing at West Marine and around the internet. I think one would be a great addition to the cabin. I would be interested to hear how people have fared with different types of stoves, particularly different fuel types. Also am looking for feedback from a fire hazard perspective.

Wood seems the lowest tech - pro: could picture rounding up firewood on a beach at an anchorage for fuel. con: How much space would a woodpile take up compared to a jerry can of diesel or propane? Then again a woodpile might be safer then propane. Also what about the smoke will it discolour sails and deposit soot about the decks?

I like the window on the propane models I've seen that simulate a fireplace - won't have quite the good smell and charm of real wood and costs more then wood.

The diesels seem the least charming of the lot aesthetically but could be quite practical as the jerry can of diesel would already be aboard as reserve fuel. Might be kind of smelly and same question about soot?

Thanks in advance for all input...

Voyages of the Fibonacci
 
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#2 · (Edited)
personally propane is nice for instant pretty safe heat, but it gets used pretty quick. its some where around 20k btu per pound.

i like the idea of wood a lot because its free, and i love a real wood fire.

diesel i like because it is safe, easy to store has decent btu per pound.

if i had a boat that had storage space wood would be a no brainer for me, but it will probably be diesel if i ever need heat

edit wood has around 9k btu per pound, diesel is around 25k. so diesel will give the most heat per pound. a 20 lb propane bottle is around 4 gallons, and it will cost 13 to 20 per fill. the same heat from diesel will take about 3 gallons, and cost around 10. i can get would for 5 bucks per 20 lbs or so if i buy the bundles, or free from the woods. if i needed to heat my boat a lot and had the space i can put a 100 lbs of wood for free, vrs 80 bucks or so for propane and 60 for diesel. all about the same heat value
 
#3 · (Edited)
My boat came with a Webasto diesel heater (cold Swedish summers, I guess). It burns the fuel pretty thoroughly - so there is no smoke, or soot and only the slightest smell of diesel at the exhaust port. Having it connected to the engine fuel tank spares us from having to carry separate fuel, or for that matter monitor a heater tank level. Most all diesel heaters eventually foul their fuel nozzle from the particulates in diesel. Once a year it is a good idea to run it on kerosene to clean the fuel nozzle (according to the Webasto rep.)

I have no reason to think that this solution is any better than the other heating choices you list, but if you do go this way, there is no reason to worry soot or the stench of diesel. Ours got a pretty good workout on the Bay of Fundy in August!

Wayne
 
#4 ·
Wood burning stoves are the worst from a fuel perspective. The fuel takes up a lot of space and provides relatively little heat for the amount stored. It has the lowest energy density, and is also the messiest to clean up. Have you ever emptied the ashes out of a fire pit...now imagine trying to do that on a boat without getting ash all over the interior.

Diesel is nice, since it poses the least risk from an explosion/fuel leak point of view. However, it does have the strong potential to coat the sails and rigging with soot. It is probably the safest of the three fuels to use in some ways. It is probably the least expensive of the fuels as well.

Propane is probably the most convenient of the three fuels. A propane powered heater generally doesn't require the coddling and maintenance of a diesel powered one nor the clean up of wood burning one. However, propane has the highest potential for an explosion. Given modern safety systems, like a fume detector and cutoff solenoid-these concerns can be handled and a properly installed system is going to be fairly safe. The exhaust from a propane powered appliance is going to be the cleanest of the three.

You will really want to get a vented heater or fireplace, since propane or diesel will add a lot of moisture to the cabin otherwise. If you get an unvented heater, mold and mildew will become more problematic due to condensation from the exhaust.

A vented heater is also less likely to exhaust carbon monoxide into the cabin. However, it would be a good idea to have and use a CO detector.

I like the look of the bulkhead stoves I've been seeing at West Marine and around the internet. I think one would be a great addition to the cabin. I would be interested to hear how people have fared with different types of stoves, particularly different fuel types. Also am looking for feedback from a fire hazard perspective.

Wood seems the lowest tech - pro: could picture rounding up firewood on a beach at an anchorage for fuel. con: How much space would a woodpile take up compared to a jerry can of diesel or propane? Then again a woodpile might be safer then propane. Also what about the smoke will it discolour sails and deposit soot about the decks?

I like the window on the propane models I've seen that simulate a fireplace - won't have quite the good smell and charm of real wood and costs more then wood.

The diesels seem the least charming of the lot aesthetically but could be quite practical as the jerry can of diesel would already be aboard as reserve fuel. Might be kind of smelly and same question about soot?

Thanks in advance for all input...
 
#5 ·
I have a wood stove that came with my boat, nothing beter than a wood fire on a cold rainy day at anker. Wood buring has many down sides; its messy, storeage is a pain, keeping an even temp means tending the fire offen, it's nice and worm when you go to bed and in the morning the fire is out and its 50F. I'm changing to diesel this spring....
 
#6 ·
I have used all three although I haven't used propane much. For me, it comes down to how you use the boat. If you are sailing around the world, it would be diesel for me. If you went out on weekends, it would be wood. I can't see any scenario that I would prefer a propane heater over one of the other options.

It should be noted that most "wood" stoves actually burn wood pellets or charcoal. There are some stoves that are made to burn good old wood. The problem with collecting driftwood is that the shape is really weird and it is very hard to store. Storing nicely chopped wood or pellets isn't too bad if you are going out for a few days at a time. It should be noted that wood takes a lot more human input. It is harder to light (your fuel can get wet), you need to stoke it, and you need to dump the ashes. If you want something that you can leave on overnight, diesel is probably better.

I have a lot of experience with the Refleks heaters which are essentially diesel pan heaters. They will stink a tiny bit when lighting and shutting down but once you get good at it, it is hardly noticeable. I have actually never had to fix anything on one of these stoves. The schooner that I used to work on had one that also ran 3 radiators throughout the boat and that was really nice.

I don't really like propane because it is harder to refuel, you can't get the fuel anywhere, you need more safety devices and I like to have as many things be diesel as possible(one fuel is great).
 
#7 ·
I like the look of the bulkhead stoves I've been seeing at West Marine and around the internet. I think one would be a great addition to the cabin. I would be interested to hear how people have fared with different types of stoves, particularly different fuel types. Also am looking for feedback from a fire hazard perspective.

Wood seems the lowest tech - pro: could picture rounding up firewood on a beach at an anchorage for fuel. con: How much space would a woodpile take up compared to a jerry can of diesel or propane? Then again a woodpile might be safer then propane. Also what about the smoke will it discolour sails and deposit soot about the decks?

I like the window on the propane models I've seen that simulate a fireplace - won't have quite the good smell and charm of real wood and costs more then wood.

The diesels seem the least charming of the lot aesthetically but could be quite practical as the jerry can of diesel would already be aboard as reserve fuel. Might be kind of smelly and same question about soot?

Thanks in advance for all input...
Bulkhead heaters are easiest to install but you have to cut a hole in the deck and have a stack on deck, yet something else to trip over or get a line caught on.

I think wood is actually the cheapest, at least in the Pacific Northwest. Just go ashore and collect it for free. But wood stinks.

Propane is the cleanest but most expensive to operate. I would get one for weekend use or light heating needs.

Did I mention about the hole in the deck? I don't like that.

So I went with a hydronic system, diesel. The exhaust is out the side, or in my case the stern. No hole in the deck, I like that.

But a proper stack has advantages. A proper stack does not care which way the wind is blowing it will always exhaust properly. With the exhaust out the side you have to pay more attention to wind direction. CO kills and the exhaust is much cleaner than the engine, you may not smell it if gets in the boat which it can do if you are tied to the dock and the wind is just right.

Nothing a couple CO detectors and paranoia can't take care of but still something to be aware of. Can be a problem with a stack as well but less so I would think.

So the answer to which heater is best is, like boats, different for each person. Which one is right for you I don't know but wouldn't recommend a hydronic system unless you have lots of money for the project or are planning to do lots of cold sailing or really do not want to put a hole in the deck.
 
#8 ·
When I was considering the various fuel sources for the Dickinson Newport bulkhead heaters, I contacted them directly and discussed options with one of their techs. I was intrigued by the solid fuel (wood, briquets, pellets, etc) heater. However, I was advised by Dickinson that this version is not recommended for serious heating of a cabin. It's intended more to take a slight chill off, and for ambiance.

For true heating purposes they recommended the diesel or propane version.

We went with propane, for a variety of reasons. Be advised that the diesel installation can be trickier, since the flue length needs to be greater to achieve proper draft. In most installations on mid-size boats, this effectively means the flue will protrude higher above the deck.

Some discussions of heaters here:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/pacific-seacraft/57167-cabin-heater-type-arrangement.html

I'll try to find some more links of earlier discussions, too.
 
#9 ·
Like others have said, I think it depends ...

If you're one of those "just do it" types then I think diesel is your answer, you just install the thing right, get your diesel fuel which you probably already have for the motor anyway, and you're in business. Do some maintenance on occasion, install safety devices like CO detector, etc.

For me I see heating and cooling in a few more shades of gray than some ...

Some conditions just call for warmer clothing, extra blankets at night. Especially in September, but also through October and even some days in November, all you really need is to get bundled up in some cloth, I kind of think too much warmth on a cool September morning almost ruins it. Come late March, April, into May again you can be content with clothing and blankets, cup of hot chocolate or coffee to get going.

Some conditions call for Sarahfinadh's oil lamp approach. Having used oil lamps quite a bit this year I can say that if all you need to do is take the edge off, oil lamps are a very good option. They are warm, use simple easy to find fuel (and not much of it), and I think a good solution for preparing the space for going to sleep, just warm it up, blow out the flame, and get in under the blankets. Relighting the oil lamps in the morning along with cooking a bit of breakfast warms the place right back up, don't forget your slippers!

The above two things and a few other tricks can take you most of the way, but of course then from about late December through February you get real winter, actual cold (at this latitude, YMMV). When it gets really cold I prefer wood heat.

I think choosing wood heat really depends a lot on how you live. If you don't live on the boat all the time it probably doesn't matter much, but if you are on the boat all the time I think it matters much more. There are downsides, some written about above, others less obvious such as having to stay on the boat if you want to keep it from freezing because the fire has to be tended. Choosing wood is kind of like choosing to be without a watermaker, or a refrigerator, it is committing to a little extra effort every day or every week. With wood you really will have to clean it out sometimes, and you'll have to go ashore for wood, and store the wood, and all the rest. Without a watermaker you have similar kinds of chores, you'll have to get water. Without refrigeration you'll have to break out the pressure canner sometimes and can some meat, etc. All of those things are a bit of trouble, but if you're on the boat all the time, living on it, retired, isn't that part of the charm of it all ?
 
#14 · (Edited)
Windy,

There's some merit to what you say. We used these methods for years to take the chill off during the shoulder seasons, and got along alright.

That said, now having sailed for a few years with the real cabin heater -- I would NEVER go back. The difference in comfort level so is so stark that it's really beyond comparison. It's almost like the difference between sleeping in a tent and staying in a hotel (slight exaggeration). Our early and late season forays are much more enjoyable now. Of all the "comfort" investments we've made, that cabin heater was some of the best spent money.

Fuel choice is always debatable. As I've said in other threads, if we were long-term voyagers/live-aboards, I'd certainly give serious thought to the Webasto/Espar forced hot air diesel heaters. I've experienced those and they are wonderful units. But for our kind of sailing it's more difficult to justify that expense -- something like 10-15 times as costly.

Wood is tricky for a lot of reasons, but if that's what you prefer so be it. However, I would not recommend the Dickinson Newport wood heater for serious cabin heating, based on my conversation with them. Instead, if I was going with wood, I'd look at something more along these lines:

Navigator Stoves

Wouldn't it be cool to have one of those in an old wooden schooner?:)
 
#10 ·
I just went through this decision process and decided on the propane bulkhead heater in my case, but I can certainly understand why other choices would make sense in other cases; there's some pretty decent products out there for each of the different fuel types.

A few factors that swayed me . . .
1) I have a propane locker in the back of a canoe stern boat and since it's advised to vent a diesel exhaust where there's no risk of it being below the waterline when heeled over, such as on the stern centerline, I couldn't run a hot exhaust pipe through the propane locker, so this was problematic.
2) For long range crusing, I didn't want to draw off the my diesel supply in case it's needed for running the engine. I can use 2 20lb propane tanks on my boat so I can use the LPG for heating / stove and reserve diesel for the engine.
3) I like propane for the reasons stated by others above, but also agree that the precautions mentioned are really important, such as having a fume detector and a CO detector, and also performing the leak checks frequently.
4) The cost of the propane bulkhead heater is significantly less than forced air diesel heaters.
5) The forced air diesel heaters use a bit more battery to run the blower.
6) The simulated fireplace is a nice touch.

These were some of my reasons, but I agree there's some offsetting benefits for some of the other options that can make another choice better depending on the boat, user requirements, and budget.

I agree the duel intake / exhaust pipe is a real plus for the bulkhead heaters, so there's little risk of consuming all the oxygen in the boat and/or having the exhaust become a problem inside.

I share the concern about the 3" hole required in the deck. I'm considering installing a larger deck place first, and installing the intake/exhaust pipe into that, so if I were ever in really dangerous seas, I'd have the option to remove the pipe and substitue the deck plate lid. I haven't thought this one all the way through yet though, so I'd be interested in any feedback anyone might have on a better approach. The concern about getting lines tangled around it can often be mitigated by a guard the vendor offers.
 
#16 · (Edited)
My experience with propane.



I did an install of Dixon P-9000and you are invited to read my post:
Sail Delmarva: Search results for heat propane

3" hole in the deck.
No troubles yet, and I had 30 inches of melting snow at one point! Do seal the cuts with epoxy. The stack came with a good gasket and I added 3M 4200 for luck. the stack had no trouble melting a hole through the snow, though I did check on it now and then.

Heat on the deck.
I can only speak for the Dixson. Because of the double wall pipe, the external pipe is only about 140F where it aproaches the underside of the deck. The sleave that touches the deck is only warm to the touch - you can hold it.

Wind.
The Dixson design seems impervious. I have had 45 knots without trouble. Lighting in those conditions is a bit more touchy - close the door fast - but not difficult. I also added a solid spray guard forward to deflect green water.

Capacity.
Try electric heaters first, to be certain how much heat you need. I am an engineer and know how to calculate heat loss... but how do I know for sure what is in the walls and where the leaks are? I prefer test data.

Line snagging.
I made a custom guard that does fine. It also keeps lines away from the hot areas (would'nt want to damage a line). Do pick a deck location that is not underfoot. There should be a no-snag cure for any stack.

Power draw.
There is a fan, it's noisy on high, and so I generally turn it down. I only need high to warm the cabin, after which I turn the gas and the fan lower. The power draw is about the same as an anchor light. It will run without the fan, but the fan really helps spread the heat.

Heat distribution.
I have a cat and this is a real problem. I use fans to chase it around, but the sleeping cabins are aft, around a corner, and stay like ice. Some boats really need central heat, particularly for live-aboards. I think cabin heaters are for occational cruisers, like me.

Safety.
I added a CO monitor and it has never chirped. I have fume detectors and all of the standard propane safeguards. I like the fact that the Dixson is sealed from the cabin, further reducing potencial hazards.

Efficiency.
The stack temperature when at full load is 310F with 6% O2 in the stack, giving an efficiency of 85%. That is as good or better than most boilers, better than most all small heaters, and as good as you are going to get shrot of and ultra-high efficiency condensing system, not available on boats. I have heard some coment that the Dixson design is wastefull because it does not give heat from the stack. Not true; the combustion air is pre-heated and no cold air is pulled in under the door. All good, because propane is ~ $12/20 pounds for me.

Fire place look.
Nice. My daughter has used it for marshmallows!
 
#11 ·
i wonder if someone lived on the boat and used a lot of heat, ie not electric heaters what it would cost to heat a 30ish foot boat for a normal east coast winter ( say new york to va area ). i dont mean heating for a weekend i mean for a winter. this alone could be a problem for those who run diesel heaters, as its kind of hard to run to the fuel dock when its closed or across a solid harbor.

this could also be a propane advantage as home depot sells propane year round. but i am sure a 5 gallon jug of diesel will last days too.

my cheapskate butt still like wood as its basicly free
 
#17 · (Edited)
i wonder if someone lived on the boat and used a lot of heat, ie not electric heaters what it would cost to heat a 30ish foot boat for a normal east coast winter ( say new york to va area ). i dont mean heating for a weekend i mean for a winter.
Scott,

Here is some data from experience to help with your question: over to you to "do the math". One gallon of diesel will run a Webasto 3500, 12,000 BTU (furnace type) heater for about 10-11 hours. This is from personal experience that also happens to match the manufacturer's claim.

That furnace is perhaps a bit larger than a 30-ft boat might need - a Webasto 2000, 7,000 BTU heater has a manufacturer's claim of 20 Hr per gallon. Based on experience with the 3500 - I have no reason to doubt the latter claim. The forced air nature of these heaters of course also requires a fan and the attendant electrical draw. There is nothing "cozy" about these things. They mount in the engine space and are designed to get as much heat from fuel as physics (and technology) will allow. No marshmallows!

In really cold Wx, I would expect a duty cycle of 75%, maybe more unless you have a well insulated boat.

s/v Auspicious - if you are out there - weigh in please. Dave has "wintered" in Annapolis harbor using (I presume) one of these.

Wayne
 
#12 ·
Here's my buddy Here's my pal.
 

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#13 ·
Hey Still—

You're looking a bit aged there... :)
 
#26 · (Edited)
I've owned and used all systems except the hydronic heat. I've used that one on other people's boats. I'd say I have to agree with most of what everyone here says.

1. Hydronic heat is the safest, easiest, most efficient and DEFINATELY the most expensive. This is what I'd choose if I were to sail high latitudes year round and had the cash.

2. Diesel drip pot (dickenson) type. Second easiest, second safest. I have slept with these running at night, but don't really like to. I've also seen people get creative with copper tubing around the stack and a pump and make their own hydronic type system. These are a really good option all around IMHO and some of the models have a window to watch the flame.

3. Propane. Propane heat sucks unless you're a weekend sailor. We have a wall mounted propane stove currently and it will NOT really heat up the boat in modest cold. It also cooks through a heap of propane in doing so and finding a place to fill those heavy bottles is much more hassle than dealing with the other fuels.

4. Wood heat. Ahhhh.... I love wood heat. Much messier, less efficient lb for lb, more effort, less safe than diesel (arguably more or less safe than propane). The reward in romance is incalculable though. It's also a really nice dry heat and contrary to what dickenson says you can REALLY put our a lot of heat if you want to. I had the "cole stove" which is basically dickenson's solid fuel stove. It was nice because you could view the flame but it was not airtight. This is a key point because it decreases your ability to control the flame and you can not easily extinguish the flame either. The only true efficient, safe and controllable stoves are airtight. I wouldn't sleep with my dickenson style wood stove burning, but I would with a controlled flame in an airtight stove. I'm currently looking for a wood stove for my new boat which is both airtight and has a window for viewing the flame. So far I haven't found any, though I may see if I can get this guy to make me one. Traditional Cast Iron Marine Stoves by Navigator Stove Works,Inc.

I tried EVERY type of fuel that you could possibly burn in my wood stove. I never did get pellets to burn very well, and try I did. Charcoal works fine but is messy. The best fuel by far, from my perspective, was the duraflame 2hr fire-logs. They burn cooler than wood (but plenty hot enough) and are consistant. I would cut a log in thirds and each third would burn 2 hours and make my 31ft boat 80-90deg. If you find them on sale they're dead cheap and since they're made of mostly wax they don't mind being stored in a wet bilge. Regular wood burned too hot for me, required much more sawing and re-adding of fuel and driftwood, while free and attractive has such a high salt content that unless you have a 316 stainless stove the salt and heat will soon put holes in your stove.

I absolutely want to pitch my propane stove overboard and go with wood. It's not entirely for rational reasons, but I'm wiling to put up with the extra effort for that nice dry, radiant, romantic heat. It's also a heck of a lot more fun to light than a webasto. :hothead

MedSailor

EDIT YIIPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! The awesome cast iron stove maker I referenced above is now making glass panels for his stoves!!! I[ve seen these stoves and they're fantastic! Some are even EPA certified (ie less soot) and you can even get drop-in cooking burners for them. Finally the wood stove I've been waiting for!! :) :) :) Before next winter I will have a wood stove again. YAY!
 
#30 ·
I am debating wethet to make my own wood stove for my Cat 30. It would be easy enough and I have the tooling to make a nice stainless one here at my house. I would (wood) want it for the off season months as well and do not live aboard or anything. I know much about wood burning as it is my primary heat sorce in my 3500 sq ft home (with oil as a backup) and just love the radiant heat!

josh
 
#31 ·
This is exactly what I have been thinking about doing for quite some time. A liveaboard neighbor of mine enrolled in a community college "intro to welding course". As their end of class project they had to make something. He made his stove. It turned out quite well, not an art piece, but very functional. In total it cost him about $250 in tuition and special matereals (like the glass and gasket) and he got to use all their tools equipment etc. Also at the end of all of it he ended up with a useful skill.

Another type of heat I have been dreaming up when the engineering part of my mind is bored is a hydronic system with circulating hot water and radiators just like a webasto system, except instead of a webasto generating the heat, what about using a small diesel genset? This would of course take up far more space than a webasto and likely use more fuel, and be louder, but if your boat has large power demands, or if you already have a genset, you could use it's coolant to heat your boat. There is lots of existing hardware out there to convert engine coolant into heat, such as red-dot heaters or even car heater parts.

MedSailor
 
#33 ·
I looked at that but here is the catch. Venting removes the heat.

So you want to put something over the burners that is going to be heated and then radiates that heat.

I did a quick design and ended up with something that was quite sizable, had some weight to it and some complexity as I didn't want to use cabin air for combustion air.

I decided to go with hydronic but I'm not sure why there are not more heat adapters out there other than they do have to be custom fitted and of course like all heaters make a mistake and everyone in the cabin dies....
 
#40 ·
Is anyone familiar with these? I have seen them on a couple Friendship Sloops (my "someday..." boat). Cropped this image from an ad.

I like how they look classic.. I'm wondering if they work well to take the edge off of a chill.

 
#41 · (Edited)
That stove is the "Pet". It's a great stove, by the same people that make the "Tiny Tot".
http://www.fatscostoves.com/images/StovePictures/PetFront.jpg
Fatsco Stoves

They're tiny, airtight (a must for wood stoves) and affordable. I've seen them up close and they're quite a nice stove. The only reason I don't have one already is that they don't have a window. :rolleyes: They would DEFINATELY take the chill off your boat, and actually could heat it quite well. Wood heat is not lacking in it's ability to warm an area, quite the opposite actually as I spent my time looking for a fuel that didn't burn as hot. Duraflame 2hr firelogs were what I found worked best, with charcoal working nearly as well, but messier.

To illustrate the point I once decided to take my dickinson pacific stove and put wood in the part where diesel is supposed to go. Actually it worked like a charm except for the fact that it burned so hot that the heat proof paint on the exhaust stack (that had withstood years of usage as a diesel stove) began to bubble and blister.

As for the flower pot idea on the stove top or in the oven I've had it suggested by many a salt, but never actually tried it. If you do, remember that a 500deg flower pot looks EXACTLY like a cold one. Use mitts.

John, I suspected that my stove sucked,;) and that propane might have some redeeming features in other models. Still, while my BTU rating is tragically low and inadequate to heat half my boat, it still cooks through a 5gal bottle in 5 days or less. If I were to use the dickinson with twice the BTU wouldn't I be going through 3 (heavy) propane bottles a week? Also since my overpriced stove burner IS vented I don't get the rainforest effect, though that is it's only advantage over running the stove.

MedSailor
 
#42 ·
Just in case anyone is crazy enough to try this. Here is a great website to help you DIY a heater install. It's actually a computer cooling enthusiast site, but the principles are exactly the same. Instead of robbing heat from a CPU and distributing it to the air, you rob it from your engine's or genset's coolant, or from copper pipe run around the exhaust stack of your diesel, wood, or propane stove and distribute it to the air.

Radiator - Review Tom's Hardware : DIY Water Cooling 101

Basically this is how to build a red-dot heater, or replace one of these (bottom right of the page)
DickinsonMarine.com - Alternative Heating

for a fraction of the cost.

MedSailor
 
#43 · (Edited)
Arch, I don't think mine would need to be that complicated. The flame in the bottom of the oven would provide heat. Like any oven, that vents out of the burner opening on top. If I cover two and vent one I should be ok. That would also let me cook on top.
While I don't want to fog the cabin, condensation is unlikely. My hull is 1.25" thick wood, which is an excellent insulator. She also has ceiling inside the planking.
I have used the Aladdin Lamp for heat, it does help.
Many people love wood burners, plenty of traditional boats have them. i was aboard a 40' last October that had a coal stove. It was lovely.
 
#47 ·
John,

Thanks for defending the cause of propane. I'm enjoying this discussion and learning a lot. When I said "propane sucks unless you're a weekend sailor" I hope that still reads that is is a viable option for a weekender. Also, I later said "I suspected my stove sucks" after learning a little more about the issue. Indeed, after your last post I did more research and found that MY stove's propane consumption is 3.3hrs/lb (66hrs per 20lb bottle)at 6,500BTU whereas the dickinson ones consumes approximately HALF as much propane for the same BTU!! My stove does suck! My recommendations against propane for serious heating were based on my personal experience and I didn't have reason to believe (until your posts) that the other stoves would be dramatically different.

Armed with this new information I will seriously consider putting a dickinson propane fireplace up front in the V-berth where the salon wood stove's heat will not likely reach. The small diameter vent is also easier to install up forward where there is more stuff in the way and I am more likely to have water on deck.

To address your question about Lb usage of fuel for the solid fuel stove, I did warn folks that my reasons for loving wood stoves were not entirely rational/practical. It's hard to beat a diesel stove (of either type) for that. To answer your question though I use the duraflame type firelogs which are 3 lbs. I cut them in thirds and they run for 2 hrs per chunk. Wikipedia says they are 8,500btu/lb so that should mean it is a 8,500 btu stove that requires one lb of fuel per hour. Looks like the larger dickinson propane stove would run 5hrs on a lb of fuel. So, not rational/practical at all, but those aren't the only criteria for my decision making.

An example of the joy I derive from my stove, even when my stove hasn't seen use in a month, is in though the look on people's faces as they were imagining my suffering as a liveaboard and then I tell them I had a fireplace on my boat. I would then joke that having a wooden boat meant I will never run out of fuel.:eek: It's also much more effective to invite a companion over to enjoy some wine on the boat in front of the fire than to invite a companion over to enjoy your forced air central heat. :p

In defense of my insanity, I put it to you that EVERYTHING about sailboat ownership is grounded in insanity rather than rationality. After all it's the romance of it all that we're after, not the fastest or most efficient way to get to our destination, otherwise we would buy plane tickets. The wood burning stove adds more romance and joy to my boat than anything else on board that I am not married to. :)

Stay warm!
MedSailor
 
#48 ·
Med,

There's much to agree with in what you say. And some good humor too. :D :D Thanks for the chuckles.:)

I cannot fault anyone's preference for wood. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread how I'd love to own one of those little Navigator stoves. In fact, my wife and I have even considered finding a place to put one in our house -- just because. Maybe someday we'd be fortunate enough to have a boat where it could serve.

But I think if I owned a boat as large as yours, for serious heating requirements or voyaging far afield, I'd be looking at diesel forced air. The bulkhead heaters are great, but once you get to a size where two are necessary, then the cost comparison changes quite a bit. Of course, there goes your ambiance.;)

Anyway, this has been a good discussion all around. Hopefully the O.P. found it helpful. We've had some similar threads here on Sailnet over the years, but the search function is so decrepit it's been tough locating them. I'm almost inclined to make this one a sticky, so others can find it in the future for reference....
 
#49 · (Edited)
One more quick propane question regarding the dickinson stoves.
If:
1 gallon of Propane ~= 4.23 lbs ~= 91690 Btus
1 lbs of Propane ~=21,676 Btus
20 lb tank of propane holds approx 4.73 gallons of propane (433,694 BTUs)

Then for the dickinson 9000model if you run it at 5500btu/hr you should only get 78.9 hours of usage (433,694/5500 ~= 78.9) yet the dickinson website claims 140hrs at this rate.

For the high setting of 7500btu they claim 100hrs though 433,694/7500 yields 57.8hrs by my math.

What gives? Surely a pound of propane can't produce more than 22000 btu. So does the stove not run as long as they say, does it not put out quite as many btu as they claim, or am I missing something else? I'm hoping that I'm missing something as I'm actually sold on the idea of a dickenson 9000 for a forepeak heater on my boat if their numbers are indeed correct.

MedSailor
 
#50 · (Edited)
Yup, I agree with your math....



... and it matches my expereince. Of course, if you turn the heater off now and then, which you will, it runs much longer.

My installation notes:
Sail Delmarva: Search results for "let there be heat"

The fan is a bit loud on high, but it doesn't need to be on high. You will need a rope deflector/cap guard.
 
#52 ·
Another Option?

Last night I remembered another heating option that is available to boaters. This was mentioned by a Sailnet member in one of those other boat-heater threads that I can't find (d!*# search function!)

I don't have any experience with or direct knowledge of these devices (frankly, it seems almost like black magic to me:D ), but the member reported good results and they are also used widely in RVs. Maybe worth a look?

THE PLATINUM CAT -- Propane/Natural Gas Catalytic Heaters
 
#53 ·
Yes, but these will add a lot of moisture to the boat's interior.

Last night I remembered another heating option that is available to boaters. This was mentioned by a Sailnet member in one of those other boat-heater threads that I can't find (d!*# search function!)

I don't have any experience with or direct knowledge of these devices (frankly, it seems almost like black magic to me:D ), but the member reported good results and they are also used widely in RVs. Maybe worth a look?

THE PLATINUM CAT -- Propane/Natural Gas Catalytic Heaters
 
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