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Boat Angel

50K views 83 replies 34 participants last post by  dixiedawg  
#1 ·
Has anyone bought a boat from eBay from boat angel? What was the experience like?
I posted on another thread my experience which is summarized as follows:
Buyer won the bid and had to pay before getting the address to see the boat. Buyer was too far away so I visited the boat for him. The boat had no interior, engine or sails so it was not worth transporting.
The buyer abandoned the boat lost his payment and luckily was not sued by the original owner to remove his boat.
The rule that you have to bid on a boat and pay in full without seeing it first makes it a very tough deal so I wonder if anyone has been a happy buyer.
 
#2 ·
Generally, buying a boat unseen is unwise at best. I'd imagine that one or two have been lucky and gotten a decent boat, but I'd bet that the majority of buyers are not so lucky.
 
#3 ·
Whatever you do, don't give the seller money until you are comfortable with the purchase. It really doesn't matter that they set purchasing criteria in the ad -- must send full purchase price in 48 hours for example. Just don't do it until you and your surveyor have the opportunity to check the boat. You risk a negative mark and/or you might decide to pay the seller's fee if the deal falls through. If the boat was misrepresented, just walk away.
 
#7 ·
Coulod you explain your basis for this. I would suspect you are confusing state car lemon laws with a boat purchase. I believe actually in most states, certainly MA, you sign a contract to buy, and after any continguies expire, you own it. Especially once the seller rhas your money.
 
#5 ·
Boat Angel is selling low cost donated boats. Expecting to get a good boat that is not in need of major work is not realistic. Their ads set forth their policies very clearly, if you bid you may win and you have now bought a boat. This is not a normal yacht purchase where you submit an offer subject to conditions is not part of the deal. They offer some boats that are well worth their selling price but it is certainly not a risk free situation. Their boats are sold very clearly on an as-is/where-is basis.
 
#13 ·
Sorry, but I'm with Boatsmith on this one. BoatAngel is very clear in their conditions, and if you're expecting a "charity boat" to be in great shape, then you have totally unrealistic expecations.

When I was boat shopping, I looked at some of their ads. I refused to consider any boat that wasn't geographically close enough to go and inspect.

In the end, I chose another boat being sold privately. Due to the economic downturn, there are oodles of "fixer-uppers" being sold privately that the sellers would be glad to have you aboard for an inspection, and that would likely be geographically near the buyer.
 
#6 ·
Before doing business with them, I suggest that you see where the money goes by looking here.

I would also suggest reading about who they are by brushing up on their constitution, available here.

When you win an auction for one of their boats,
AN ADDITIONAL $169.00 (processing fee) is added to the final bid price.
Items are sold "As Is Where Is" which is defined as follows;
What does it mean?

We are miles away from our donations. The donors send us all paperwork by mail, including an information sheet which they sign the form with a Power of Attorney giving us and the people we sell them to Power to Transfer the ownership and move the items.

Oftentimes the sheet is filled out by wives, widows, parents, etc. Some of these are people who have not used the boat or car in a long time and they are occasionally mistaken about years and models (normally on older items) and sometimes the mistakes are even on the titles of the items themselves. You can call us and ask us about that.

At other times the information sheet is filled out and the donors themselves have moved and the boat, trailers, cars, rv's, motorcycles, vans, trucks, sailboats, canoes, or mopeds are still in storage.

We describe "Where Is": It means that when you pick up the item that is where it is. We are not making a guarantee that the item is at a specific location. We will furnish you the address the donor gives us and you will get the item in the photos. We cannot promise you that the item has not been moved from one area to another (generally the distances are quite short.) You are buying something where it is.

If there is no item: If you make an effort to pick up the item after the auction (call the donor and pick up in 4 days) and the item is simply not there (towed off, stolen or missing) then we will not keep your funds. If you make arrangements to leave it there longer with the donor, the storage yard, or the marina, then you are doing so at your own risk; you are the new owner--the obligations for insuring and securing your item are yours, we will not assume them. We do not guarantee that if you leave your item at someone else's house, storage area, marina, storage yard, or slip, that they will keep it indefinitely. It is just like parking on the street. You take the risk that it can be moved.

"AS-IS" is a phrase taken from the UCC commercial code which governs sales in the United States. (It means, As it is) There is no guarantee that the item is in any condition whatsoever. It can beautiful on the outside and need work on the inside. The ad can describe "Donor says it is running" but the donor may not have used it for 3 years or longer. We do not claim or guarantee anything excepting the item is "AS-IS." Some items need no work at all, other items will need a lot of work put in. Those are the conditions you are assuming in an "AS-IS" sale. It is an online auction conducted under the rules of EBAY. The prices are low and you need to reserve funds for moving and repairs. To get the items into tip top shape most require some work. We publish the photos given us and you can see online the date they were developed.

Once the auction is over and you have paid, we will send you the original donor form so you can see the description the donor gave us. We do our best to disclose everything on the form, but we cannot guarantee that occasionally we won't miss a donor comment. Due to poor handwriting or perhaps a comment unseen on the back of the form we have missed a few. We list about 140 items per month and it is a fairly grueling task for our listing agent. Each listing takes about 15 minutes to upload and prepare as Ebay has about 4 fields that need to be filled out.

Regarding Title Changes of Ownership: Our donors claim to own the items they donate. Sometimes they are the original owners, sometimes they purchased them used. Each state has different rules and some states do not have titles. Some states (currently 50 states in the USA, all with different regulations) have no titles for trailers or titles for certain years, and then some of those states have registration-only rules. You can find out online what your state regulations are quite easily. Some states need titles for engines. The buyer needs to know the rules of their state.*

In the case of defaced, lost or missing titles we will pay for notary services, registered mail, and lost title fees if the item is not listed "Sold on Bill of Sale Only." If it is listed, "Sold on Bill of Sale Only," we are announcing to you that the item is donated with no title from the donor. This does not mean we will pay for your new title or pay for your boat registration as those are your responsibility. We will cover only the "lost title fee" of covering the title that the donor lost. The registered mail fees back and forth we will also reimburse. If the donor has made mistakes on the title we will furnish Statement of Error Forms or new Power of Attorney Forms for the donor to notarize giving you the right to apply for a missing document or make corrections to a document with an error. If the donor has not properly transferred the titles we will cover (within reason) their cost of doing so. While this is being done it is still your responsibility to safeguard and protect your purchase. it is best to get those issues settled prior to rebuilding an engine or putting additional work into the boat.

We do not claim ownership of the donations just the right to sell them granted by the donors who have claimed to be the rightful owner. We have been granted power of attorney by our donor and the right to sell/transfer their items and for the monies received to go to our charity. You are getting the item from our donors directly with the funds going to us.

In short, we will do the best job we can to insure that you can legally use your item and enjoy it for years to come.

Thank You,
Boat Angel Outreach Center Team
Note that I am neither promoting nor critiquing them, just suggesting that you be aware of with whom you may be doing business.
 
#8 ·
I believe that most if not all states allow you to change your mind on real estate purchases within 72 hours or some such. I don't think that will apply to boats but check your state laws.

I will reiterate that you should determine the conditions with which you are comfortable. Fine, if you win you have agreed to the contract they specified. Big deal. Sure, if they are in the same town, maybe you could be sued but even then you can only be sued for damages. They can not force you to buy the boat. The only damages that I see would be the Ebay fees and I'm not sure how many apply for a relisting.

If you are the winning bidder, tell them what you are willing to do. For example, arrange for a local survey ASAP and then you will make a decision. If that is unacceptable, then they can list it again or try the next highest bidder. You should pay the fees that they incur.

Frankly, if they will not agree to a local survey done within the week, then you should walk regardless.
 
#16 ·
BOAT ANGLE does not sell anything, yo Will get a BOS from the one that donates the boat and you will get a receipt from BOAT ANGLE for the Fund you give them for "said" boat, but "said" boat will never be in the name of BOAT ANGLE.

I was on Ebay and bid $794.87 on a 1972 Westerly, was just being A$$ seeing the $1.01 to $1.02 bidding at the time, yes i paid them thee bid price the boat was in Brick NJ, she was sailable and she was worth the price and more, but she was never in the name of BOAT ANGLE, there misleading and hard to get more info from, so i don't even look at there boats any more.
 
#18 ·
BOAT ANGLE does not sell anything, yo Will get a BOS from the one that donates the boat and you will get a receipt from BOAT ANGLE for the Fund you give them for "said" boat, but "said" boat will never be in the name of BOAT ANGLE.

I was on Ebay and bid $794.87 on a 1972 Westerly, was just being A$$ seeing the $1.01 to $1.02 bidding at the time, yes i paid them thee bid price the boat was in Brick NJ, she was sailable and she was worth the price and more, but she was never in the name of BOAT ANGLE, there misleading and hard to get more info from, so i don't even look at there boats any more.
Did you take possession of the boat?
Am I correct in that you had to pay the full amount bid plus 169 before you got the address to see the boat?
 
#17 ·
Yes, I have purchased houses in Texas (1978), Missouri (1984 and 1990) and California (2000). I have a high credit score and a 468 on Ebay at 100% (Chatmanx). I have also bought and sold lots of cars, all for cash -- it's a hobby. I'm not suggesting that anyone screw anyone over. I'm just trying to help a possible Ebay buyer understand their legal and practical options. Especially their responsibility for "real damages" if the deal falls through.

And yes, I am probably especially pessimistic about the "power" of contracts today. I was in Yolo Superior Court this morning to set a trial date. The attorneys of both parties created a contract in mediation that the other party has decided to ignore. So, we are suing them at our financial loss to enforce a contract that they signed in mediation. The mediation, of course, occurred because the other party ignored an earlier contractual agreement.

If you have been in this type of situation, then you know that contracts are not what you first thought they were when you, as an honest person, signed your name as an adult to a long list of promises. I think that is especially true with Ebay because the buyer is the one person on the entire planet most interested in the product -- highest bidder. As the only person bringing cash into the transaction and the one person willing to bring the most cash into the transaction, the buyer has a great deal of power and the seller has a huge reason to make the deal happen.

The bottom-line is do not lay your money down if you're not satisfied with the deal -- ever. You have legal and practical options. That's all.
 
#19 ·
The buyer is at significant risk if they have to pay before seeing the boat.
What may not be really evident is that the seller is probably at significant risk also.
The reason BA give a free depth finder or whatever other little gadget is not out the generosity of their heart.
They are interpreting the donation laws and sort of saying that because they are a charity and substantially upgraded the vehicle the seller can take the full book value of the vehicle as a deduction rather than the sale price.
They also say that they are not accountants and their paperwork will be legal which I suspect it is and only reflect the sale price and if you take the higher deduction you are on your own.

Then chances of the IRS demanding the list of sellers every 6.5 years and contacting them all is probably going to depend on how much money the IRS thinks it can make by going through the trouble.
 
#20 ·
I bought my Catalina 27 off ebay. I found out where the boat was located, I called the yard owner and asked if I could look at it. So I had the opportunity to scope the vessel out before I bid on it. I ended up getting the boat for $1300 and some back storage fees. What was listed in the auction wasn't accurate - so I talked with the Boat Angel people to get the price down a bit. This is probably a rare case for these, the boat was in pretty decent shape and it turned out to be a great cruising boat. The real key is trying to do some investigative work before bidding.
 
#22 ·
boat angel

I bought a Columbia 29 from b a back in 04. Had the dickins getting paperwork so I could register it because the donor didn't give them any. Finally had to demand they give me papers or my money back. Finally they got the donor to send the paperwork. I think they want papers before they will accept a donation now. BTW, the boat needed fixing up a little but the A4 ran good, had good sails and the price was right. I bought a pig in a poke but it turned out ok. Don't know if I'd do it again tho.
 
#23 ·
Here were the before pics:
Catalina 27

These are the result after a few months work and a couple grand:
http://www.opus45.com/c27_pics/

The ebay listing for the boat showed the city it was sitting. I found there were only a couple of marinas in that city. Took a drive out and checked it out. I lucked out on this one as the boat was pretty well taken care of, and the owner was careful about storing the boat. All the sails, cushions, electronics etc were at his home. There were other boats on the lot that were left to rot full of water, sails on board - just nothing left to salvage.

Derek.-
 
#24 · (Edited)
I just started working with these guys so I wanted to comment. They keep the locations secret so people are not stealing things off the boats. If you want to view an item, you simply email brian through the auction and he will show the boat. They require all paperwork before they take a vessel, maybe that's new but they do it now. Untill they got me they only had the owners word to go by, most boats and jetski's "only need a battery" but have fried electrics or a ceased motor. I am a certified marine mechanic with over 10 years experence and I check out the mechanical condition of the boats now. They operate on a shoe string budget and do the best they can. If you have a question about a vessel just email them and they will anwer it, or show you the boat!
 
#30 ·
Boatangel has been a great and reasonable site for looking for fixer-uppers. But latley the boats are getting rougher and the increase in the processing fee is ridiculous. I've been following you dailey, and bought several boats, since you came to Ebay which I believe was in 2002. With the new $249.00 processing fee it's time to take Boatangels off the favorite list.
 
#31 ·
Boatangel has been a great and reasonable site for looking for fixer-uppers. But latley the boats are getting rougher and the increase in the processing fee is ridiculous. I've been following you dailey, and bought several boats, since you came to Ebay which I believe was in 2002. With the new $249.00 processing fee it's time to take Boatangels off the favorite list.
 
#32 ·
I did the Boat Angel this one time, and i will never work with them again they dint put the donations in there name and the BOS is BA, but if there is a title it is from and in the name of the Donner and made me pull my hair out seeing as my home state wanted the title from BA, and my home state does not title boats.

The people i talked with where Kids and i mean 12 years old and they didn't know what was going on the only adult in the place, See i stooped in at there AZ office to get the papers and pay them there Graft, The only Adult there was not forth coming at all with the information they calmed at the time they would provide.

After all the Trouble and misleading not to mention the Pure Bull Dung i got from them i will never again have any dealings with them.
 
#33 ·
I bought my boat from them. With a little detective work, I found out where the boat was stored and talked to the marina owner. The description was dead on and I knew what I was getting into. Bought the 1977, 8.3 Columbia for $550. I live in Canada so I expect there was some additional risk for something to go wrong. When it came time to pay, Angel told me there was an additonal $500 owing for storage due to the marina, which was not indicated in the listing. When I objected they offered to negate the deal or drop their $169 fee. I agreed to the cancellation of the fee and payed angel the $550. As it turns out the owners paid the fee themselves and I ended up getting the boat for the ebay bid price. No trouble getting the title. Everything went smooth, even met the previous owners. I have now invested about $6000 in material and shipping and God knows how much in labour but I have a good solid boat which I know intimately, perhaps more intimate than I wanted. Took two years to get her launched and I feel I have a $10k boat . That's my experience and I would use them again.
 
#34 ·
Well, there's no ebay seller listed today under the names "boat angel" or "boatangel".

Tacking on a processing fee outside of the auction price should be against ebay rules, maybe that got them canned.

And not passing the title on to the "charity" and passing it through them, probably would violate IRS rules as well. Which generally require the valuation of a vehicle to be made after the charity has sold it--and the charity has been paid for it, not the donor.

Always so nice to read half a story.
 
#37 · (Edited)
It works out fine in some cases, and not so fine in others. The problem being that it's difficult to tell whether one is buying a pig in a poke. And the "good folks" at Boat Angel (along with their legal advisors) have made sure that there is little or no recourse for a buyer who feels burned once the money has changed hands. It reminds me a bit of people hawking "brand new TVs, still in the box" out of a van or off the back of a truck.