[flyingpumpkin]

the patent you mentioned is actually Barrett industries. They were sued by ez2cy so this is not the same method. the story is here : (with a movie) The e2cy patent is mentioned just as “Inventor” I assume to make it harder to find. I’m sure we can find it either through the patent for the company, founder or lawsuit. Even if patented that doesn’t preclude hobbyists it only means you can’t sell product and Go into business - which I am not. 4U2SEA Enclosure History

inventor.​
1999:	​	Inventor files patent infringement case against Barrett Enclosures to protect patent and his licensed dealers. After making attornies wealthy, the suit is settled out of court nearly 3 years later with inventor receiving check and future royalties.​
2002-03-26:	​	Jeff receives official trademark registration #2551456 for the mark EZ2CY and now can use the revered ®.​
2008-12-12:	​	Jeff Smith ceased to have involvement with the operation of EZ2CY Enclosures when In December of 2008, EZ2CY, Inc. purchased from MAL-MAK CORP. various assets.​

Duracote ———————- Are we going to learn how acrilic is bonded to sunbrella or not? there is a course on boatcanvasuniversity.com that has it as a single course (owner teases that there is an adhesive he will tell you the name of in the course) im not planning on enrolling in a $3000 course for learning how to become a canvas making company. Best of luck to those that do. I’m sure there is value in signing up for the other hundreds of videos and courses. If anyone has taken the course or knows someone who has please post it here. i have has good luck riveting sunbrella to Makrolon with a very think aluminum backing plate Or washer. I used aluminum rivets and it is quite east. I put in a layer of butyl tape. I would like to try VHb tape but not on a large scale until I see others

I worked for a ez2cy franchise for several years. I have a canvas bussiness. Do not use vhb it will lose adhesion in the heat. One would use different adhesives for stamoid and sunbrella. The acrylic is very expensive, you have to buy 3k at a time. Goto Cavco canvas university in maryland for basic n rigid . 3,600 $ . Not including air,hotel,n rental car . Worth twice as much.

In making windows in enclosures and dodgers

 

[flyingpumpkin]

I’ve been looking into this. Evidently EZ2CY “patents” are on the bend-ability and framing of the acrylic not the adhesion method they tout in “patent #5,121,703”. Jeff smith the founder was suing other companies based on this and writing in their page suggests it is the bonding method. It is NOT. What a scam.
Patent just describes flexible framing with his specific brand of plexiglas. There is Nothing about bonding in their much advertised “patent”

glue is mentioned exactly once in the patent as an option. I can’t believe they sued Barrett pretending like there was something significant or relevant here. Litigious guy I guess. They settled rather than pay lawyer fees

To think this guy was bludgeoning folks with nonsense lawsuit and couldn’t tolerate fair competition.

totally useless advertised ez2cy patent 5,121,703 here:

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/5121703

If I can’t find what adhesive they used I’ll use the Barrett method. Also patented …and relevant to this discussion.

 

[tellicocanvas]

It would be interesting to try it out. My guess is that the solvent would damage the Sunbrella. Now that I come to think of it, I believe the glue I found earlier is designed to glue acrylic to soft vinyl, not Sunbrella. I was trying to find the relevant website just now, but couldn't. I like the idea of using VHB, though, that would be so much easier. Something to think about when I design my next dodger.

Have you tried using the VHB yet with sunbrella ?

 

[pdqaltair]

I've always wondered about installing the windows somehow with Velcro so that they were simple to replace if they get scratched. Probably a sandwich method similar to the first post. Cutting a rectangle and replacing it would be dead simple.

 

[beentwiceiraq]

H-66 is the glue of choice.

 

[beentwiceiraq]

H-66 is the glue of choice.

HH-66

 

[pdqaltair]

BTW, I have used VHB tape to bond windows (vinyl and polycarbonate) into fabric with no problems. The trick is not sticking the VHB tape to the window, it is getting the VHB tape to bond to the fabric. Either epoxy or contact cement will do that job (the 3M bonding primer for VHB tape is basically thinned contact cement).

The fabric bond will always be the problem. Bonding to acrylic and polycarbonate is easy with many products.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to work out a quick-replace mount for the windows on my next dodger. probably Velcro.

 

[flee27]

I am questioning the statement about the VHB failing in the heat. VHB is a know and proven way to install port lights. Why would the bond fail because of heat in this scenario. From my experience using VHB if you prep properly, use adhesion promoter/primer, the VHB will not come lose. It will tear part but the 2 halves will still be stuck to the substrate.

This assumes the substrate is a good surface for the VHB. Hence the use of creating a epoxy bed for the VHB.

Definitely interesting and hopefully we will get some real life, long term results.

Best
Foster

 

[jtsailjt]

The canvas shop I use has a machine that bonds stamoid to acrylic but I asked them to sew the acrylic instead because once they are bonded they can’t be unbonded. No doubt it’s a very neat looking border but a problem when the acrylic needs to be replaced.

 

[Ilir Topalli]

It would be interesting to try it out. My guess is that the solvent would damage the Sunbrella. Now that I come to think of it, I believe the glue I found earlier is designed to glue acrylic to soft vinyl, not Sunbrella. I was trying to find the relevant website just now, but couldn't. I like the idea of using VHB, though, that would be so much easier. Something to think about when I design my next dodger.

I tried the weld on and l think you’d have to abrade the strip of plexiglass. But more to the point I’d prefer to impregnate one side of the sunbrella with do-100 or a flexible epoxy and then tape it. For this reason I’m switching from Sunbrella to Stamoid vinyl trim as it takes the tape very well with zero prep.

 

[Ilir Topalli]

This is very helpful. I am using a fabric called Aqualon. It is a Vinyl Resin Top Coated fabric. My client wants me to use plexiglass instead of strataglass. Plexiglass is what was on his stamoid top. The original top had the plexiglass adhered with VBH tape. Do you think I can follow the same procedure to adhere the plexiglass to Aqualon?

Yes. The procedure for VHB will work with any pvc vinyl or any plastic

I am using the Barret patent method now with 3M 4945 VHB tape.

 

[Ilir Topalli]

H-66 is the glue of choice.

H-66

H-66 is the glue of choice.

h-66 is only for vinyl-to-vinyl. It will not work on anything else such as acrylic

 

[wrwakefield]

BTW, I have used VHB tape to bond windows (vinyl and polycarbonate) into fabric with no problems. The trick is not sticking the VHB tape to the window, it is getting the VHB tape to bond to the fabric. Either epoxy or contact cement will do that job (the 3M bonding primer for VHB tape is basically thinned contact cement).

The fabric bond will always be the problem. Bonding to acrylic and polycarbonate is easy with many products.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to work out a quick-replace mount for the windows on my next dodger. probably Velcro.

PDQaltair,

We are also getting ready to try ‘Velcro’ fastener tape [e.g., 3M™ Dual Lock™ Low Profile Reclosable Fastener SJ4580] for our Makrolon [optical grade polycarbonate] dodger, bimini, and full enclosure inserts.

Historically we have always sewn in 40 mil Makrolon, but our retrofits will incorporate ‘Velcro’ style attachments- starting with replacing the optically wavy Eisenglas in our removable side curtains with Makrolon.

Our current thinking- using a ‘low profile’ 3M VHB Dual-Lock reclosable fastener tape [low profile is 1/8” thick when mated closed; almost half the thickness of their regular Dual-Lock tape products] is to glue the tape to both sides of the polycarbonate, and glue and sew it to the dual fabric interface.

All 3M Dual-lock tape will be under fabric cover limiting UV exposure.

Hopefully this will end up being easier than sewing the Makrolon in place, and of course make replacing clear panels somewhat easier in the future.

The remaining issue is sourcing the desired 3M tape product in less than 50 yard rolls for our experiment.

In case this is useful, and spawns any better ideas.

Cheers, Bill

 

[The Varnish dude]

The canvas shop I use has a machine that bonds stamoid to acrylic but I asked them to sew the acrylic instead because once they are bonded they can’t be unbonded. No doubt it’s a very neat looking border but a problem when the acrylic needs to be replaced.

Your not gonna sew through acrylic , plain and simple.

 

[jcapo]

Your not gonna sew through acrylic , plain and simple.

Agreed. Makrolon is sewable but I was not able to force a needle through it by hand. I was not willing to feed it to my Sailrite.

Rhino and maybe any CA glue will bond (melt) Sunbrella to acrylic nicely.