Hint: Most forum search engines are flawed. Try Google with "sailnet composting head" and you find many.

 

I looked up the article you referenced and found this quote:

"Hill believes one of the problems is that liquid and solid waste are not separated at source. As a result of mixing the two before the urine is screened out, he says ammonia in the feces rises to levels that cannot support the micro-organisms needed for the composting process."

This makes total sense in a public park where there is no chance of teaching people how to use the facilities.

In your own boat if you are a guy you have to sit so your pee stream goes in the pee bottle.
The boat devices are designed for separation, that is what makes them work.

I have no personal experience, a little more searching will net you many commends from people that love them and hate them.

Pros: Simple and saves space.
Most people say the odor is less than with a holding tank even though a perfectly operating tank has no odor either.
I think the concept is that

Cons: You are dealing with a pee bottle every couple of days, most people just dump it overboard.
They sit a little higher
You have to have someplace to keep a spare 5gal pail of stuff to age before you dump it.
You have to have peat or other stuff to mix in.

In short is is very different. Neither solutions is without issues.
Hoses, pumpouts, joker valves, clogs etc
vs.
peatmoss, pee bucket, aging bucket, bucket disposal.

Many people that have the nature type heads love them, a few do not.
Pooping seems to be a personal issue in more than one way.

If you over use it it, more than the number of people expected it can be a real mess.
Over using a holding tank means you have to pump more often which can be a mess if you forget, don't ask how I know.

In any event any issues in a public park have no bearing at all on your 27' boat.

 

The search trick is to in google start like this:
site:www.sailnet.com the words I want to search on

 

Thanks! I learn something every day. Unfortunatly I forget two....

 

Maybe I should sell parks Canada a separator seat-bowl, so theirs will work. Maybe I should suggest they take a mold off mine, and make their own.
A footrest in the right place deals with the extra height issue.
I have been using a separator seat- composting head for several years now, and, like most people using them, I would never put a conventional head and holding tank in my boat.

 

I am thinking of going that route. what brand do you have?

 

I was sort of leaning that way after reading the article. I feel that the lower maintenance and fewer parts would be a real bonus for a composting toilet.

(Also, thanks for the search tips!)

Does anyone know if you have to buy one or can you make your own?

 

Does anyone know if you have to buy one or can you make your own?

Buying options people usually get is Natures Head, Airhead, or C-head. Building your own, I think a lot of people just use a 5-gal bucket in a box and add a seat to it.

I'm looking at going with either Natures Head or Airhead but want to see one first which I plan to do at Annapolis in a couple weeks. Then, I'll have to figure out how to take the head/holding tank out of the boat.

 

We installed a new composting head (Nature's Head) this season. Love it. It's perfect for a two-person full-time crew. Simple. Space saving. Safer. Will never go back.

There is a learning curve. It is different than a standard marine head. But on the scale of plusses vs minuses, a composting head wins hands down for us.

 

Good to know, Mike. What do you do to dispose of the waste?

 

Urine goes over the side, every couple of days. We carry two bottles, so never a problem. Waste bucket gets dumped in the bush. Our anchorages are remote and pretty wild -- much like the PNW. If I was out to sea (we're on the Great Lakes), I'd dump over the side out past the 3 nm limit. In urban areas you could take it into a public toilet I suppose. So far, no problem.

 

After Reading Breaking Seas and Mr. Damato's experience with a composting head I was discouraged from installing one.

The other consideration is that if and when I sell my boat, the targeted buyer's are most likely going to want a traditional holding tank system and will see a composting head as a con.

 

After Reading Breaking Seas and Mr. Damato's experience with a composting head I was discouraged from installing one.

That was one of the funniest, grossest things I have ever read.

 

I just wanted to add another voice for the composting heads. Bought a Nature's Head earlier this year, and have absolutely loved it. Saved space with no holding tank, fewer holes in the boat, the head does not smell AT ALL, and its so much simpler than a traditional head. We had one issue with small gnats, which we quickly remedied by sprinkling diatomaceous earth in the composting chamber. Never had problems with gnats again.
My girlfriend was a big skeptic at first, and she has also been won over. We are soon going to outfit a boat for a Pacific circumnavigation, and will definitely be replacing any traditional head/holding tank with a composting head.
cheers
greg

 

Don't mean any disrespect to SN, but there's a lot of good info about this topic that I was JUST reading about on Cruisers Forum. You can find it by doing a Google search on "cruisersforum composting toilet nature's head". After the research I've done so far and from reading those posts, I'm ready to take the plunge...so to speak.

 

Either a holding tank or a composting head will work. Question is which one will work best for you and you are going about finding out in the right way.

Personally I have nothing but praise for my C-head. I am glad I didn't reinstall a marine head/holding/plumbing system when I tore the old one out. The only thing that would make me go back to a traditional marine head would be a change in the law.

 

I'm thinking you won't throw too many parties aboard a C27. However, one downside to a composter is instructing a guest to use it, particulalrly a landlubber. 99% will find it gross.

The irony to me is I don't find them all that more environmentally friendly. Tossing partially decomposed turds in the dumpster doesn't seem right to me and pouring urine overboard is simply illegal in non-discharge areas.

The advantage is getting a bit more usage between emptying than what would be necessary for the fairly small holding tank that would fit on a 27 ft boat.

 

I'm thinking you won't throw too many parties aboard a C27. However, one downside to a composter is instructing a guest to use it, particulalrly a landlubber. 99% will find it gross.

Hmmm, not sure what you mean Minn. Have you used one? There's nothing very odd or gross about it. The only real difference is men have to sit. And you have to open the trap door. Everything else happens as-per normal.

The irony to me is I don't find them all that more environmentally friendly. Tossing partially decomposed turds in the dumpster doesn't seem right to me and pouring urine overboard is simply illegal in non-discharge areas.

Absolutely agree! Raw excrement should never end up in the landfill, and that includes all those people who dump filled diapers, or dog crap into the garbage stream. If you can't fully compost the waste (which takes ~3 months I've read) then it should be dumped out at sea, just like a normal marine head (once you're out past legal limit). Either that or should be dumped on land away from human activity, buried in a shallow hole.

 

Anybody who thinks that rotting meat belongs in a landfill and soiled diapers do not, knows nothing about biological processes and risks they carry. There is no restrictions on diapers being placed in landfills.

 

Quite right, there are no restrictions. That doesn't mean it's a good idea (speaking as someone who knows a bit about biological processes and risk ). There's lots of research available. Here's a nice summary from a WHO study on groundwater risks:

"An analysis of household waste in the UK showed that over 4 per cent of the waste comprised disposable nappies (diapers) of which about one-third may be soiled with faeces. Domestic waste also contains bloodstained materials, such as sanitary pads, tampons and discarded wound dressings and animal wastes, such as dog faeces and soiled cat litter. The potential for pathogens within this mixture of sources is extremely high. ... The fate of pathogens in landfill sites is not understood. Although it is generally assumed that most are rapidly inactivated by the conditions that prevail in the landfill environment, the potential of leachate and run-off from landfill sites to transport pathogens into local water resources should be addressed in situation assessment."

 

One other issue, I am looking to live aboard in a marina that has no pump out service in the winter (it is located at the fuel dock) so the ability to empty without a pump out is essential to me. I honestly don't know what the other boats do, as I have not been there in winter but the thought of walking up a cold and icy dock at 2:00 AM on Wednesday night when nature calls is not a good one!

 

Getting back to the original poster . . . we installed a Natures Head in our Catalina 27 before our two-month live aboard trip in the Bahamas.

Bottom line - it worked GREAT. A few bits of strangeness to get used to: guys gotta sit down to pee (hey, we are actually able to do this), remember to empty the pee bucket before it's 100% full.

Absolutely no smell on board.

We had to "change" to new peat moss after about a month and a half of full time aboard living (two adults).

This was a HUGE improvement over the messing around with vacuum extracting the tank, leaking pipes, plugged macerator pump, and the smell permeating the plumbing (after a few years).

They seem ridiculously expensive, but well built and solid. Good quality stainless fittings.

 

.

[

COLOR="LightBlue"]Absolutely agree! Raw excrement should never end up in the landfill, and that includes all those people who dump filled diapers, or dog crap into the garbage stream. If you can't fully compost the waste (which takes ~3 months I've read) then it should be dumped out at sea, just like a normal marine head (once you're out past legal limit). Either that or should be dumped on land away from human activity, buried in a shallow hole.

[/quote][/COLOR]
There was quite an extensive thread on this topic a while ago, and, again, the need to dispose of "material" before it is fully decomposed (e.g. the 3 months+) defeats the purpose for me. You would have to be able to transfer the holding tank (and use a new one in the interim) to a location where it can "finish the job". Just how many tanks you'd end up with - and how to securely maintain the ones on shore - adds up to logistics that tell me: stop at the pump-out, once a week or when necessary, and let the marina or municipal sewage system take care of it.

Now, on a 27' boat, there is not a lot of room... but since you are talking "live aboard", you may spend most of your time in the marina, anyway, and make use of on shore facilities much of the time...

 

I don't think it is a no brainer at all.

Wet plumbing systems are complicated, and sometimes messy. Also, as mentioned just a post or two up, pump outs often close in the cold seasons (and too often just seem to break and be out of service for extended periods). It has also been quite well reported that heavy rains frequently cause an overflow of the treatment plants (often discussed in other waste threads) dumping large quantities of untreated sewage into public waters. Plus, as noted in your summary above, a large percentage of soiled 'naps' are already heading into the landfill, and that kind of thing should be planned for. Your summary also mentions that the general assumption is that the waste is quickly deactivated. Besides, unless you are going to stop all diapers, tampons (I've seen signs in MENS rooms warning not to dump tampons in the toilet), dog waste, kitty litter, baby wipes (don't flush them, either) and everything else from making it into the landfill, I would think stopping every boat with a composting head from trashing their waste (maybe three gallons worth of partially composted material every few months) is extremely unlikely to produce any kind of measurable result. I suspect that if we all started burying our poop in shallow holes, there would be an awful lot of shallow holes scattered around (I'm guessing that this is illegal, too).

Everything in life is compromise. While landfilling waste might not be a perfect solution, it is no where near clear to me that it isn't amongst the best of many bad choices.

 

For what it is worth, I switched to a Nature's Head after not paying attention and overfilling my old holding tank with rather unpleasant and unsanitary results. It scarred me and I swore "Never Again!"

It took a long while to pull out the old system. There is a lot of stuff that goes along with it, jammed into all sorts of unlikely spaces. The new unit is self contained, is simple, with practically nothing to break (the fan is probably the weakest link), and just works. The girlfriend was probably a little skeptical at first (I think she spent a couple days holding "it"); but is now fully onboard (provided I do the pee bottle dumping). The bonus is I now have the room for a new 20 gallon water tank, which will happily double my capacity. Score!

[The waste disposal issue is still a concern, and I'm not feeling terribly guilty at this point, especially since dumping once, maybe twice a year might be enough]

 

Any thoughts on Lectra San?

 

It sounds to me about as close to the perfect solution as you can find. Except I don't believe you can use it in zero discharge waters.

 

You could be right about the functional impact. I haven't done or seen an analysis that would answer the question if which is the least damaging. It will be small, either way.

Where I cruise there's lots of opportunity for the shallow hole solution, but I grant that is not always possible. Hopefully in those urban areas people can head out to sea for a standard dump.

 

We’ve had a composting head for three years now. We wanted very much to like it – and in fact did love it for the first year or so. At first having to constantly empty the liquid container seemed a small price to pay for not having to deal with holding tanks and pump-outs, but now we’re much less convinced. After another recent infestation, we’ve come very close to deciding to remove the composter and to reinstall a conventional marine head and holding tank. We’ve had fruit fly and fungus infestations intermittently and when they occur it’s an absolutely disgusting cleanup job. I think the medium was getting and staying too damp and we've rectified that to some degree (part of which means not using the toilet on port tack!), but the next time I find fungus or fruit flies - I'm done!

As for the LectraSan, I've heard them pretty widely praised for areas that aren't NDZ. If you're going into NDZ areas you have to keep the regular holding tank in parallel, which takes up a lot of space. They're also very expensive.

 

We've had a composting head for three years now. We wanted very much to like it - and in fact did love it for the first year or so. At first having to constantly empty the liquid container seemed a small price to pay for not having to deal with holding tanks and pump-outs, but now we're much less convinced. After another recent infestation, we've come very close to deciding to remove the composter and to reinstall a conventional marine head and holding tank. We've had fruit fly and fungus infestations intermittently and when they occur it's an absolutely disgusting cleanup job. I think the medium was getting and staying too damp and we've rectified that to some degree (part of which means not using the toilet on port tack!), but the next time I find fungus or fruit flies - I'm done!

Put a half cup of diatomaceous earth in the bucket with each new "charge" of peat moss. It will eliminate all insect larvae. Available at any big box garden shop.

 

To the OP: You have received a great deal of information and links to previous threads where this has been discussed at length. Those who have composting heads seem generally pleased with them. Remember though, that this is not a random sampling by any means and the reality is that probably 99.9 % of all boats out there that have a head do have some sort of holding tank system. The marine head/holding tank system works acceptably well for the vast majority of boaters, and as has been mentioned before, a composting system not going to be a plus when it comes time to sell your present boat.

 

My complaint is that composting heads simply aren't doing any composting, and if the folks who make a product need to misrepresent it in order to sell it...I don't want any part of it.

Sell 'em as "waterless heads" or "dessicating heads" or whatever, and let the customers know up front that they are NOT going to make nice harmless beneficial compost in any way at any time, and I wouldn't object.

But these heads produce sewage, not compost. And sewage brings sanitary risks. And since there are no conventions or standards for getting the "dry" sewage into the sanitary sewage system...I can see that being problematic. After all, Typhoid Mary knew she wasn't the problem.

As to the feces from baby diapers, I'd have to expect that an infant has a fairly low risk of passing on typhoid or polio or other infectious diseases, simply because they haven't been on the planet long enough to be exposed to most of these problems. As opposed to adult feces, where the donor has had many years in which to be exposed to many risks from many partners. Likewise, dogs and cats simply don't carry the same diseases that humans do.

No, I think I want a genset and an Incinolet. If I'm going to use a bucket and bags...I can use a bucket and bags. That's called a commode, and no one pretends it makes nice tasty beneficial compost.

 

All feces carries pathogens, but human feces carries pathogens of paricular concern to humans. It's dangerous stuff.

I did not know that. I thought only crap from sick people had the pathogens and while all crap was full of bacteria it wasn't necessarily harmful.

I read an article that some folks take poop pills to reintroduce beneficial bacteria back into their gut.

 

Asians have been fertilizing rice patties with human feces for centuries. I don't seem to notice their populations being decimated by feces born pathogens.

 

Skid marks? Use a bigger bowl under the seat, or larger coffee filters. Isn't that why they use them?

Actually ToTo, a major Japanese supplier of toilets, invested a lot of money into special porcelain surfacing so that nothing sticks to their bowls. There are indeed folks who spend all of their time working on these issues.