Sorry for all of this, it sounds like a big disaster to be honest. But I don't know what to suggest other than...

1) a belt sander for the big stuff. If it clogs the paper then gets an eraser and just keep at it. Go with a heavy grit and just stay away from the edges.

2) for the edges you need a more delicate tool. A dremmel with a sanding blade, do it by hand, it's going to suck.

3) when you get most of it off and are back to a scuffed, dinged gelcoat... don't even bother to try and fix it. You put this stuff on because your old non-skid was toast anyway right? Just buy some Hydroturf (with the 3m adhesive glue), cut patterns to fit the deck, and stick the turf down.

Alternatively you could try just knocking off the worst of what you have and putting the hydroturf on top of the residue. It might stick, it might release, I have no idea. But it would be a lot less work.

I would recommend the 2mm stuff for the general deck, and 5mm in the cockpit. It's a very high density foam, that is pretty much impervious to water and chemicals so it will last pretty well, and is reasonably cheap ($100/32ft^2). It is also by far the best non-skid I have ever used, and because it is a foam, it's very comfortable to lay on and isn't uncomfortable on knees and elbows like sand/aggregate non-skid is.

Below you can see it applies to the cockpit of a VXOne.

 

Sorry for all of this, it sounds like a big disaster to be honest. But I don't know what to suggest other than...

1) a belt sander for the big stuff. If it clogs the paper then gets an eraser and just keep at it. Go with a heavy grit and just stay away from the edges.

2) for the edges you need a more delicate tool. A dremmel with a sanding blade, do it by hand, it's going to suck.

3) when you get most of it off and are back to a scuffed, dinged gelcoat... don't even bother to try and fix it. You put this stuff on because your old non-skid was toast anyway right? Just buy some Hydroturf (with the 3m adhesive glue), cut patterns to fit the deck, and stick the turf down.

Alternatively you could try just knocking off the worst of what you have and putting the hydroturf on top of the residue. It might stick, it might release, I have no idea. But it would be a lot less work.

I would recommend the 2mm stuff for the general deck, and 5mm in the cockpit. It's a very high density foam, that is pretty much impervious to water and chemicals so it will last pretty well, and is reasonably cheap ($100/32ft^2). It is also by far the best non-skid I have ever used, and because it is a foam, it's very comfortable to lay on and isn't uncomfortable on knees and elbows like sand/aggregate non-skid is.

Below you can see it applies to the cockpit of a VXOne.

Yes, doing several HUNDREDS of linear feet with a dremel sander is going to suck. Big time!

I had not heard about hydroturf before. The picture looks good and it sounds interesting but I am not too keen on trying another 'unconventional' product. Some googling brought out some people that swear by it but others say, e.g. "My HydroTurf is breaking down badly on my skiff after less than a year. Admittedly it's uncovered a lot but heck it's flaking apart. I'm pretty discouraged." (this is from Seadek or Hydro Turf - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum).

So, I am thinking something more like KiwiGrip about which I have only heard good things.

Once I get this stupid Durabak contamination off my deck!!!

 

Sorry to hear this. I shake my head at Practical Sailor studies now. I really don't think they are always very scientific. I hope not to offend one of their test engineers, who I know posts here, but I think they recognize some shortfalls in several tests. The Mantus chain hook test, for example, was highly criticized for mismatching the recommended chain size. The running rigging test compared different brand lines, but used inconsistent line diameters and hand feel was one of the comparatives.....duh. I don't trust PS much anymore and it's really too bad, because the industry would benefit from a more reliable testing company.

How about an oscillating tool, like a Fein multimaster, with a scraper or saw blade? You might have to go back and clean little bits up with a sander. I wouldn't be too worried about the gelcoat, unless you dig through. You'll probably have to fair it all out anyway and then apply a new non-skid, so you'll never see the mess. Lots of work though.

I'm guessing ultra violet light did it in. Did PS consider that in their study of outdoor non-skid? I let my subscription expire.

 

Yeah, I agree that PS might have had some egg on their face in some cases (btw it was me who brought the PS test of the Mantus hook to Sailnet) . But this is not one of them, I feel.

They tested the product, it came out very well initially (as it did on my deck), and they recommended it based on the data they had. It turns out that after 2 or 3 years that Durabak is actually cr*p (at least for this application). But should they wait for every product for N years until they publish their test? For some items, you can simulate ageing (like keeping electronics at high temperature, in a salt mist etc) but that is not really practical for non skid on a boat deck.

PS did not specifically mention UV light.You would guess (and they probably expected) that something made for the bed of a pickup truck should be able to stand up to sunlight for a while. We don't know if that is what did in the coating, it could be exposure to salt, perhaps different expansion characteristics on a boat deck than on a metal substrate, or who knows what. I have to say that now, as I am looking for ways to get rid of the stuff in the car/truck groups, I am reading about A LOT of bad experiences with Durabak. Even in their main target market there are at lot of people that hate the stuff, after having applied it and having seen it fail catastrophically. Maybe PS could be faulted for not having paid enough attention to what is known about this product whose features turns out to be really controversial, to put it mildly.

Anyway, I don't blame PS, they did what they could within the means they have. And they are man enough to fess up and downgrade the product drastically.

Where I see the fault is with the manufacturer. First selling a sh*tty product, and then completely ignoring customers when they ask for help, just to get this contamination off their property.

 

Google didn't reveal much for boats....but jeep and truck guys know more about removal

Durabak Sprinke Removal on Paint. - JeepForum.com

durabak | ECJ5

I don't know what brake fluid, aircraft stripper or xylene would do to your boat surface though.

 

I used Xylene on my gelcoat when preparing for the Durabak application. It did no damage, at least not during the wiping that the application requires. Xylene is the solvent used to thin it but I believe, it does not dissolve cured Durabak.

Durabak is a polyurethane DURABAK Spec Sheet. I don't know what specifically removes this, without eating my boat. They claim (in the link above) that it is "Resistant to acid, chemicals, UV exposure, salt water". Would be nice if they were a bit more specific in what they mean by 'chemicals.'

 

Yup. Google around the off-road forums. Herculiner is the exact same product, you may get more hits using Herculiner as the search term. IIRC, there's a few threads on Pirate4x4 that mention brake fluid as dissolving it, or wire wheel it off. (Pirate is the SA of the off-road world)

You'll also likely find the very famous "Herculiner on the Hootus" thread. There are places you should never get bedliner.

 

Hey,

Sorry, man, sounds like a bit of a mess and some work ahead...

I think it's a combination of a multi-tool with scraper blade to lift off most of it won't grind off with a circular sander (for large areas), then a random orbital sander, then go with repainting your deck. To me, the first challenge is figuring out whether it will scrape off or, as you've pointed out, will it clog a circular sander...you may need to go down to like 40 grit or maybe even 36 to get it to "cut"...Be careful on the curvy places!!! You'll have to take it all the way down I suspect (at least in the non-skid areas will need to be sanded flat). Probably treat it as if you have just re-cored your deck and are now ready to tape off/paint/non-skid.

Dunno if it's in the budget to hire folks who fair stuff everyday to at least do the "heavy lifting"

 

I second the use of a scraper to avoid clogging hundreds of sandpaper belts. Maybe some kind of paint stripper or heat prior to scraping?

Interesting how the real world conditions products face stymie the best intentioned tests.

 

Dirty decks are not acceptable to us.The name of our boat is "DIRT FREE".
Ironic huh ?

 

I applied Kiwigrip about five years ago, it worked and looked great. Mind you by the end of the job I had gotten better at getting the right texture on the deck. After five years it is starting to showing wear and I will reapply this spring. Mine did not stain and looked good thru the five years. It is not awful now, just showing wear in high traffic areas. I would be concerned applying it over a anything that is still peeling.

 

If I could get 5 years out of a non-skid coating, and then having the opportunity to overcoat it without having to get the whole shebang off again, I would be overjoyed.

 

Haverstraw marina has in the water winter storage, is a fully protected marina, and they keep ice eaters going. Not a bad place. It's down in Rockland so further south than I wanted but doable. I think it is about 10 foot minimum so draft is no issue.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

Yea, I was wishing the boat was in "sailing shape" (my mast is down and in storage) as we had whales in the river reported from fall well into the winter. Would have been fun to see them.

 

Take a look a the Kiwigrip installation videos, I found them helpful and to the point, when I reapply I will just wash the surface and tape

 

Thank you, great idea! I watched several, the 'official' one and also some from a bunch of guys that add miscellaneous tips. For instance, applying the masking tape in small (1'-2') sections and remove it while you are painting (i.e. immediately after doing a small section) is a great idea that I had never thought of. I will definitely try this. Should be useful even beyond Kiwigrip application, for any fast-drying paint.

Still not sure what do to about the cursed Durabak. They do not reply to emails. I was at the boat yesterday and found that the flakes into which it decomposes seem to become bigger. I now have several areas where flakes of several square inch size are coming off.

Perhaps this is a good thing. If I wait long enough, I will be able to tear off the whole deck in one piece

 

Three years on my Kiwi Grip, no problems whatsoever. I just scrub it with a scrub brush and Comet cleanser and it looks like new for weeks on end. I love it!

Gary

 

Hm, maybe that is the secret why it works for you: Comet cleanser. This is a mild abrasive and I also don't know what else is in there. I have never used something like that on the deck, or elsewhere on the boat (maybe on a dirty pot in the sink ). The only products I have ever applied to the deck are Simple Green (rarely) and Woody Wax.

Even if the Kiwigrip is fine with it, I am not sure I would want it on the gelcoat (non-non skid) parts of the deck, or on the topsides.

 

IME (in my experience) your options for fast and efficient removal of the Durabak is either 3M's Clean and Strip Disc, or their Bristle Disc. I've experienced minimal clogging with the Clean and Strip, but zero with the Bristle Disc. Both however will not be kind to your underlying gelcoat, but if you're reapplying nonskid, it doesn't matter.

Now, my 2¢ on what to reapply...
I've helped apply (on other people's boats) Kiwi grip, and found the same dirt and staining issues mentioned here. IMO, I would reapply a 2-part urethane product such as Interlux's Perfection, and a hand broadcasting of Interlux's Intergrip granules (you're in control of the amount of non-skid you prefer), followed by a second coat of Perfection. This is a time tested technique, using time tested products. Again, just my 2¢.

 

Thank you for both tips. I did not know about the bristle disk, it looks promising. As a matter of fact, I discovered there are LOTS of different bristle disks so I will have to learn a bit more about that. I am looking at a pressure washer, too, see my next post.

As for re-coating, I am not sure what to do. It seems like about half love Kiwi Grip and the other are not convinced (though nobody seems to actually HATE it, which is definitely the feeling I have for Durabak). I like the simplicity of applying a single product (KiwiGrip) vs the complexity of several steps which is, as you say, the traditional (time-tested) way. But I agree it likely gives more controle. I have never worked with two-part paints, either, and understand they can be a bit finicky. My cockpit is painted with a one-part polyurethane (Interlux Brightside) which I like for its ease of application and reliably good outcome. However, it needs to be repainted every 3 or so years at least if one is concerned about cosmetics. Not a big deal for the cockpit but I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do the deck every few years.

Thanks again, and I will do some more research on both removal and recoating. We have another 6 weeks of winter to look forward to, as Phil told us this week

 

"Well, that would be (to name just a few) "
That's why many folks have used BonAmi for years. Confusingly sold in both the old (yellow) box and the newer gold cannister, same product. It has always been a mild abrasive (feldspar or diatomaceous earth, aka Fuller's earth) just like traditional Crest toothpaste. Won't scratch, no harsh chemicals. As Comet and Ajax got more complaints about damaging fiberglass tubs surrounds in the 90's. they both switched to a similar software formula, but BonAmi still reigns king for "Won't harm".
SoftScrub was pretty good too, but that went off the market for a while and is still hard to find.

 

Best of luck..

 

I realize this thread is very old, but thought I would chime in about the Ki-Wi Grip. I am now at more than 4 years with it and it still looks like new. As for stains, about the only thing that has stained it is spider poop, which we see a lot of every year, and I can easily remove it with LA Totally Awesome Cleaner that I purchsed at Dollar General for $1 for a 20 ounce spray bottle. This stuff will clean anything on the boat, including nasty, black marks from folks boarding with black, rubber-soled shoes. However, it will remove any and all traces of wax, so you have to be careful where you use it. It will also remove Poli-Glo as well. I have never had a problem scrubbing my Ki-Wi Grip finish using Comet Cleanser, and I just rinse it thoroughly after scrubbing, which is what I would do if I used Dawn dish detergent, which I sometimes do because it does not attack the Poli Glo.

Hopefully, the OP has successfully removed the garbage finish he appled back in 2010 and refinished the deck with Ki-Wi Grip. As for it being a dirt magnet, this has not been my experience, and my boat is docked just a few hundred yards from a freight train track where huge trainloads of coal pass by nearly every day. The coal dust cleans off quite readily with Dawn Dish Detergent or Comet Cleanser and a scrub brush. Not a big deal to clean, even for a 76-year old sailor with some bad and missing body parts.

All the best,

Gary

 

I realize this thread is very old...

Gary

Gary, I guess I am getting old and am not used to these fast-moving times any more... This thread was started (by me) on Jan. 16, so just over 2 months ago. Perhaps this counts as 'very old' for the whippersnapper population but for me it is still quite fresh :laugh

 

I don't know if the power washer is a good idea or not. I do know a guy who used one to clean his decks and it popped several pea sized pieces of gelcoat off. That may not be a big deal, if you're resealing the gelcoat anyway. Just be careful.

 

Sorry for not replying earlier, and thanks for the warning. I don't want to repeat myself, I will post a report on my experience in a few minutes...

 

Unfortunately I went through the Durabek non-skid issue and spent weeks removing it. I used the white durabek and within 2 weeks the black rubber was showing through; within in a month or two the paint began to flake. The only way I removed it was to literally burn it off with a heat gun and scraper followed by aggressive sanding. Needless to say it did a number on the gelcoat. Eventually went to Kiwigrip and have had no issues since applying it (~ 5 yrs ago). The boat is kept in Fl and subjected to all the issues you'd expect; O inly wish I'd been aware of the Durabek issues earlier!!!!!!

 

I am very sorry to hear about your disastrous experience with Durabak. As Practical Sailor report, you and I are not the only ones, this is simply a sh*tty product. At least for the marine market, perhaps it is the best thing since sliced bread for pickup trucks but I don't care. They sell it for boat decks and not only is it completely unsuitable, what is worse is that the company couldn't care less about their customers' problems once they have their money.

I realize that you had to go through the 'burn' process and damaged your gelcoat while doing so. I can report that I had more luck with a power washer, see my post below.

 

I second Travelin'- LA Totally Awesome cleaner gets most of the hard to clean stains off the Kiwigrip. I'm only in year two of mine, so I can't speak to the longevity of the look. Like you, my deck is also painted with Brighteside.

 

MastUndSchotbruch, my mistake. I thought this thread was much older, but that was becasue I looked at your join date instead of the post date. Sorry about that.

Hope you are blasting that flaky junk off your deck at this point and getting ready to put down a fresh coat of Kiwi Grip.

All the best,

Gary

 

No problem. I was just pulling your leg :smile

Anyway, here is (DRUM ROLL!) how to get rid of the devil's spawn called Durabak. I can report with great pleasure that after two years in the fierce Maryland sun (ha!) the stuff had so decomposed that I could, indeed, blast it off with my power washer! I applied the usual precautions, did not get too close to the gelcoat and no damage whatsoever ensued. But the Durabak wafted away in huge flakes. Some were close to a half sq ft in size, I spent some time to collect it from the ground because I felt bad polluting the marina ground. The whole deck was cleared in less than 3 hours.

I expected some nightmare like egood reported and I am very relieved that I got rid of the stuff without doing additional damage, and with a very reasonable amount of work. I should notice that Durabak left a white residue on the deck which looked nearly rock-like. That took me another 4 or 5 hours to sand off with a random orbit sander and a 40 grit disk. I could have made it much smoother but this is non-skid anyways so I left it at the point where the cosmetics were kind-of OK.

Another observation: I carry my spinnaker boom on the deck and the Durabak coating was essentially preserved under it! So the problem is UV. Durabak comes in two versions, with and without UV protection, and of course I bought the version with it (for both of my ill-fated trials with the stuff). Maybe they sold me the wrong one. On the cans it clearly said WITH UV protection but my faith in the integrity of the Durabak Company and the manufacturer, Cote-L, is very low. Or their stuff simply does not work.

So, if your deck is entirely protected from the sun, Durabak may be just the ticket :devil

 

I'll be powerwashing the entire boat tomorrow morning, including the non-skid. Never had a problem doing this with Kiwi Grip.

Gary