If chargers go both ways, it seems like the appliances/tools could only be a concern

 

full gut and rewire, particularly since 110v requires larger gauge wiring than 220v.

No it doesn't.
Now I've fixed that initial fallacy can you go back an fix all the others?

I run on both 110 and 220/240. I have a huge number of plugs and adaptors for the actual plugs only. As far as I see all modern appliances that don't run with an actual motor or compressor are both voltages. Hot water heaters are now 110 and 220 duplex (as in either). Battery chargers are the same... 110 or 220.
All battery recharging devices run on both. Exception is some 'smart chargers' like Dremel that arn't real smart at all.

If you are stuck in winter in a different part of the world just run in a shore power plug into the saloon and run your new local heater. They're about $40, not expensive You sure don't need to destroy your boat because the rest of the world doesnt use 110

 

 

What most are doing now with new builds or rebuilds is to install lithium batteries, install an inverter of one's preferred electrical flavor sized to run all AC devices on the boat, install a dual-voltage/frequency charger(s), and run all electrical off the inverter/batteries while charging with shore power. This way you are always agnostic to voltage and frequency of whatever shore power you happen to have.

Mark

 

Hello,

I think it's easier to go from USA 110V to 220+ as used in the ROW (Rest Of World). The 110 wiring can easily handle 220V

As you wrote, the harder thing are fixed A/C devices. On my boat I only have 2 built in devices that run on AC: the battery charger and the water heater. As you wrote, most chargers can accept either voltage. Water heaters seem to be 110 or 230. I don't know about built in air conditioners. My other electrical devices run on 12VDC (refrigeration, lights, propane solenoid, VHF, plotter, etc) so they don't care about AC power.

I have been considering a french built boat with European power. If I buy this boat my plan would be to change the shore power connector, and the internal AC plugs. I don't know what to do about the water heater, I don't connect to shore power that often, so I might just disconnect the power to the heater, or I could replace it, they are not that much money.

I don't have any high draw AC devices, just a laptop and a fan or two.

Barry

 

I don't know what to do about the water heater

Water heater is easy - the electrical part is just the heating element, and they are easily replaceable, obtainable at most hardware stores, and cheap.

Mark

 

It's not just the voltage difference, you also need to consider the frequency difference. Resistive loads are likely ok, but sensitive electronics may not handle the difference. Motors will run at different speeds than nameplates, and that may or may not be an issue.
For me, the inverter/battery bank/dual charger would be the most reasonable/useful solution. Several higher end systems combine the inverter and charger into one unit.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

 

I posted my primary cruising grounds, because they are all dominantly 110v. It's not just a US thing (Bermuda, Bahamas, most of Caribbean).

Also realized the generator itself may be an issue, as the European boats are designed to make 220v 50hz to the receptacles, where crew plugs in power tools, laptops, hair dryers, etc.

I like the lithium -> inverter solution, but still seems like a big re-fit. I'm trying to talk myself into this, but it still seems like a major PITA and I should have what I can commonly get replacement parts for in the US.

 

I posted my primary cruising grounds, because they are all dominantly 110v. It's not just a US thing (Bermuda, Bahamas, most of Caribbean).

Also realized the generator itself may be an issue, as the European boats are designed to make 220v 50hz to the receptacles, where crew plugs in power tools, laptops, hair dryers, etc.

I like the lithium -> inverter solution, but still seems like a big re-fit. I'm trying to talk myself into this, but it still seems like a major PITA and I should have what I can commonly get replacement parts for in the US.

While 110V is available in some of the Caribbean, it is often only at a couple of slips dedicated to the proper connectors. Otherwise, it is 220V60Hz and you need to make a cable converter to split off a leg. All of the French islands in the EC use 230V/50Hz, so you wouldn't be able to split off this, and the frequency would be wrong. You would need to avoid plugging in at French islands, or get a transformer and live with the 50Hz.

The generator is no problem and can easily and quickly be rewired to 110V and the governed speed increased to 60Hz. Takes a screwdriver and 5 minutes.

Making an agnostic electrical system really isn't that much of a refit. At some point, the batteries would need replacing, and installing lithium could occur then (personally, I'd do this regardless before going cruising). An existing inverter is likely to already be sized to handle most of the loads. If not, you'd probably want to replace it anyway. Most quality battery chargers made in the past decade are dual voltage/frequency. You might need to add another charger to supplement, though.

And the above doesn't necessarily need to handle the entire boat. Larger continuous loads like A/C often have dual voltage/frequency compressors. If yours do not, they can be replaced with ones that do. This way, all the battery/inverter needs to handle are lighter or temporary loads from appliances and the like.

Mark

 

If your "devices" are 110v etc... you'll want to change the boat's outlets, inverter etc. If you are connecting to a European system... perhaps get or fabricate a "converter" / transformer which you plug a Euro show power cable into. This
transformer/converter would have a 220v Euro style pigtail input and an 110v US style pigtail output.

Perhaps?

 

My boat is European and I have an isolation transformer that allows me to plug into either 110 or 220-240V. The only thing that does not run on US power is a small washing machine but I run that off a European Honda eu2200 generator if I need to - which is rate

If doing it again, I would put in a larger inverter with Lithium batteries and not worry. Once you have an isolation transformer most problems go away with a collection of power cable adapters for plugging into any shore power. 4 short cables cost me $300 and I can plug in anywhere.

It is not a surprise that many Oysters travel anywhere they want (normally with a good electric system and a good generator for the rare circumstances that is not enough).

hope that helps.

 

An autotransformer still cannot handle frequency differences, but is a good solution for voltage differences. It also has the added benefit of isolating the shore power from the boat in terms of safety and galvanic problems.

Mark

 

I realize that the frequency problem is not solved by the transformer. That is why I suggest a bigger inverter to run all ac kit onboard from the inverter. I use the 50hz generator as a cheap alternative work around.

 

Hi Mark,

Autotransformers have a single winding. Both sides (shore side and boat side) of the transformer share one connection to the transformer winding. So an autotransformers will NOT isolate the boat from shore power. This may be a dangerous installation.

In a regular transformer, there are two windings. The only connection is magnetic, maintaining electrical isolation.

 

Our dominant time is spent in the US, but our certain cruising range is US, Bermuda, Bahamas, Caribbean. I'm hoping we go further afield, but can't be certain. We'll see.

I've had a bias to only buy a boat that was inherently powered with US based 120v 60hz appliances and shore power. These are air conditioning units, water heaters, ice makers. Most newer battery chargers seem to accept either. Wall receptacles certainly matter too. I had a buddy buy his boat in England. He shipped it back to the US and did a bunch of conversions, but it always seemed cobbled together. It wasn't really a full gut and rewire, particularly since 110v requires larger gauge wiring than 220v.

I believe one can install some pricey transformers and get shorepower to work, if I bought a European powered boat. However, I worry that any appliance failure mean replacing with units that are harder to source here (or in most common cruising grounds).

One market that is challenging me are Oysters. Most are built with 230v 50hz shorepower and appliances.

How much do you think this matters?

I have just gone through t the process of converting mine from 230 50HZ, to US. It was expensive, Boat is 1996, reworked it over a four year period. Very please with the outcome. Main reason was the permanent cruising area. We plan on spending 1 year in the med and the majority in the Caribbean and North American waters. Our boat had a large inverter, but it failed after a month. We are very happy all the upgrades but it took a bit of time knocking it out on weekends and holidays. Also much more modern Genny.

 

One of my considerations is what would need to be left on, while away from the boat. I would not want the inverter to be left on, while away. If shore power was interrupted, it would draw the house down to whatever minimum voltage it was set to cut out. That's usually pretty low.

To my surprise, I'm told modern air conditioning units can accept both 50hz and 60hz, therefore, European 50hz units will run on US 220v 60hz. Perhaps even more efficiently, oddly enough. As the battery chargers can clearly accept both, leaving the boat plugged in, with only those two systems on seems like it would avoid any other AC current needs, while away, and the invertors could be shut off.

I would still need to run a second set of 110v receptacles, which could be powered through a second inverter, but only use it when power was assured. The standard European inverter would power the European appliances that wouldn't easily accept US 220 shore power (microwave, washer, ice maker).

The cobbled part is not wanting either invertor to power the entire AC current breaker panel, rather specific circuits. Just like my buddy's old boat. Doable. I admit, I'd rather it was more simple, but this is doable.

 

I understand that some boats, whose primary power infrastructure is 240v/50hz, will install a transformer and run a second set of receptacles around the boat, with the larger wire size needed for 120v. When plugged into a US shore facility, the 240 on the dock is already 60hz, so this puts 110v/60hz to the receptacles.

Why wouldn't one just use a plug-in voltage converter at the European receptacle? The 240v is already at 60hz, so it's just a matter of knocking down the voltage. I'm not sure of this, but if 240v is going down the wire to the receptacle, then being converted, I'm not sure wire size needs to increase.

These plug in converters have wattage limits, but higher capacity voltage converters (say 2000-2500 watts, being enough to run a hairdryer) are maybe $40-$50 each. You could put quite a few on a boat, before coming anywhere near the cost of transformer and running more wire.

Am I missing something?

 

I understand that some boats, whose primary power infrastructure is 240v/50hz, will install a transformer and run a second set of receptacles around the boat, with the larger wire size needed for 120v. When plugged into a US shore facility, the 240 on the dock is already 60hz, so this puts 110v/60hz to the receptacles.

Why wouldn't one just use a plug-in voltage converter at the European receptacle? The 240v is already at 60hz, so it's just a matter of knocking down the voltage. I'm not sure of this, but if 240v is going down the wire to the receptacle, then being converted, I'm not sure wire size needs to increase.

These plug in converters have wattage limits, but higher capacity voltage converters (say 2000-2500 watts, being enough to run a hairdryer) are maybe $40-$50 each. You could put quite a few on a boat, before coming anywhere near the cost of transformer and running more wire.

Am I missing something?

If you are thinking about those inexpensive voltage transformers that you can buy at the airport which 'half' the voltage (from 220V to 110V), they are essentially just a big diode. So they cut off one half of the sine wave and lets you keep the other half.

Your hairdryer doesn't care, nor does any other resistor (which is what a hairdryer is). For anything with electronics in it, the wave form is horrible. It may just not work, or it can be destroyed.

 

Curious how this works for all the plug in bricks that convert 120v to 5v on the USB converters that are common with most electronics today (phones, etc).

 

Says pure sine. Think its nonsense?

https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-Converter-International-Voltage-Adapter/dp/B07D47KQCM?th=1

 

No, this is probably real. Notice the wattage: up to 200W. This will charge your phone etc but don't try it with the hairdryer.

 

Hey,

I'm sort of the same position, considering a boat built for the EU market, etc. I am also considering a new boat and I have learned that a few companies (Delher, Dufour, Salona) use 110V AC wiring for ALL boats built. This way they don't need to worry about the boat going to Europe or USA.

I am also considering an older (2013) boat in Europe and sailed in Europe for a few years. That boat is set up with European power, etc. My plan is to just convert the shore power connector for USA style. The battery charger can handle 110 or 220. I'm not sure about the water heater, so I will check and replace if necessary. For ME, I am rarely connected to shore power and when I do all I do is charge the batteries and maybe run a laptop, or a fan. I have no high draw AC appliances like microwave, hair dryer, ice maker, heater, etc. If I did I would change the wiring on just one run, and be sure to only use high draw appliances on that one outlet. There is no way I would run run wiring for all outlets. I have never even used half of the outlets on my current boat. If you really wanted to be safe you could even just disconnect them so there was no power.

Barry

 

I was thinking I could just buy UK products, like power tools, but then I'd have the wrong Hz, when plugged into shore. Then the correct Hz, with the generator running. I'm sure we'll get used to this, but it's cobbled (just like my friends old boat).