[echoffmanjr]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hello, I own #19 SKYE Rye, NY for the last 8 years now in Great Island Boat Yard Harpswell Maine. To all above comments we suffered a srtructural crack in the topsides which upon investigation led to removing all chain plates as the water sitting inside the hull had delaminated the entire area around the plates. The point of water entry as has been referenced was the toe rail. We replaced that, repaired and rebuilt the plates, peeled the hull and reglassed using an infusion technique that should have eliminated the air pockets surrounding the original chain plate construction. new boat! The toe rail and the chain plate tang are the culprits. The steel chainplates and I suspect the rest of the steel used 30 years ago in Argentina was not high quality stainless steel, just plain carbon steel and hence more easily rustable. I dropped my rudder years ago because it was "wobbly", the pintal and gudgeon were refabricated and it's been fine since.

Happy to discuss further. ECH

 

[Holthoefer]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hallo, I own # K16, Baltic See, since 23 years. I had the toe rail and teak deck replaced in 2003. Yet no structural work on chain plates and rudder.
Quantification of water insite the laminate is difficult above steal, so I do not
trust in the measurement. I only hope for the following years.

I am very much interested in other experience/comments.

 

[EvelynL]

Re: Frers F&C 44

I have some original Drawlings in JPG format for the K-22 Hull we own... Happy to share if interested... Have Ariel View + Rudder Chain Plate Design and Specs (in Spanish of course).
Most F&C owners know us on here already, however, I have not met another owner with a K-22 HULL... I assumed there is more than just one of us out here? Or is the numbering sequence unique since they only made 50 of these in Argentina?

 

[slowgoose]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Thanks so much. We're practically neighbors! - I have seen the pics on the internet of the repairs to your boat, and she certainly looks like a new boat. I too have the "wobble", the rudder is off now and it looks like at the very least I will be replacing the bearing that it sits in. Did you have any moisture in the rudder - did you have any concerns for the integrity of the steel armatures for offshore work? Thanks again.
Will Robinson.

 

[EvelynL]

Re: F&C 44 Dodger

Would love to see photos of the Dodger photos if you finally had a dodger made? Sent you a Private Message...

 

[slowgoose]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi Evelyn,

Didn't get your private message - oh and I don't have a custom dodger - think that was another owner. Thanks

 

[slowgoose]

Re: Frers F&C 44

RUDDER:

FYI to fellow owners - I have just had a new rudder for K-20 made by Foss Foam - not fitted yet so I'll update at that point.
When the old one was pulled apart Foss Foam reported that it was actually in good condition and both the core and stock were in good shape. Making me wonder why I erred so far in the direction of caution in the first place!
However in removing the stainless heel of the old rudder the yard reported that the bolts through the skeg that held the heel ( or gudgeon) onto the skeg were heavily corroded. It may be worth taking a look if you're heading offshore any time soon. The bushing that the stock sits in in the gudgeon was also worn, in a similar manner to an earlier post, causing a little bit of play ( especially when overpowered in a stiff breeze) and a new one is fabricated.

 

[evangeline44]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Thanks for the update

 

[EvelynL]

Frers F&C 44

EC,

Owner of 'Explorar Conmigo' K-22 Hull. I would love some photos of your rudder work, and specifications on the parts you either purchased and or had fabricated for the pintal and or gudgeon? I noticed some serious rusty water exiting my Rudder one afternoon after haul out-- the long stream of rusty water concerns me for what lies inside the rudder and it's integrity-- and how long I have until something happens.
Thanks,
Thomas
(Galveston, TX)

 

[EvelynL]

Frers F&C 44

Thanks for the update slowgoose! Would also like to see any photos that you have documented of this refit of the rudder...

 

[Holthoefer]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hello,
I have a new question to the community of F&C44 owners.
On Hull Nr.:K16 I realized a leckage at one opening window/hatch in the superstructure. The windows had been installed from inside. The outside coverage is not fixed in the window frame. The fixation of the frame from inside seems to be bolt and skrew nut. The problem is the access to the skrew nut.
I wonder whether I have to remove the hole wodden panel before I can refix it.
Does anyone understand the system.
Regards
Klaus

 

[evangeline44]

Re: Frers F&C 44

my windows/portlights now all out for re-finishing.
Inner frames all screwed through inner wooden lining through the intervening gap and inter the coachroof moulding. No Nuts.
Outer trim ring just screwed into coach roof.
Lots of old Goop seemed not to have solved the problem for the PO
Will be putting West epoxy into all the old holes, re drilling and rebedding.

If you need pics of the now removed empty holes message me.

 

[Holthoefer]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Thank you very much for your answer.
Still I ask myself why they used such a thread on the bolts. They are definitely
not made for fixation in wood or grp.
Maybe they glued female-skrew-nuts into the coachroof from inside?
nevertheless I now know that I can risk to remove it.
I would be grateful for getting a picture of the installation/hole.
Thank you in advance.
Regards

 

[EvelynL]

K-22 here... I removed the plexiglass ports, and replaced them with tempered glass, and rebed each Port with high quality Butyl Tape-- not a leak again in two years running I have owned her.
It is the 5-Part seal that is critical... (Yes I am including the outter chrome plated brass 'flange')

 

[JBJ]

Re: Frers F&C 44

I have been interested in buying an F&C44 for some time and wish to get an opportunity to sail with an experienced owner to appreciate the boat at sea and check if it is what I am looking for. I never owned a boat of this size and was puzzled with a short trial I did once recently. Meanwhile I remain very attracted by the boat and wish to learn more about her.
Could one of the current owners invite me onboard? I am based in the Netherlands and can travel a reasonable distance.
JB (jb.juery@me.com)

 

[Holthoefer]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Reading your post, I realized having exactly the same problem that you discribed. The chain plates on my F&C44 hull K16 are rotten.
The craftsmen on the yard are puzzled about the whole construction. Having only two of these boats in Gemany means the yards have no experience in this kind of reconstruction. So I would be glad if you could give me information about the
step by step progress of the repair. Especially photographs from imside/outside that show the approach and complexity would be very
helpful.
I thank you in advance for assistance
Regards
Klaus
kholthoefer@t-online.de

 

[evangeline44]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi Klaus
We have not touched Evangelines Chainplates YET!

A previous post on this thread refered to a re-fit carried out by Great Island Boatworks in Maine on a sistership.
I looked at their website a couple of years ago and sure enough there was a good selection of pics showing the peeling of the topsides, removal of the old chainplates, fabrication and redesign of new replacement and fitting and fairing.
The work looked to be of a fantastic quality.

UNFORTUNATELY I have just checked on the up-dated website and these pics are no longer there!
In fact their site has been totally up-dated and only more recent re-fits are featured.

I can only suggest that you email them via their link, and ask very nicely if they could send you a link to the previous website or picture attachments.

Let me know how you get on.

Good luck and kind regards

Neil & Sue

 

[Holthoefer]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hello Neil and Sue,
thank you very much for your answer and assistance.
I already mailed to Great Island Boatworks and got no reply yet. A costumer from Europe will surely not pass the ocean for a refit.
The problem concerns mainly the older models with three chain plates for the main-mast on both sides, on which the material in the hull
is not really waterresistant and rust with the time.
Thank you once more for your help.
Kiind regards Klaus

 

[evangeline44]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hi Klaus,
Evangeline is K11 so about the oldest I've come across on various Fora. Do you know of any earlier ones?
She was launched in August 1979. So like yours she has the chainplates bonded into the hull - a serious design flaw.

Quite agree about not crossing the Atlantic for the work but if they (GIBW) would let you see the pictures I just thought they would be very useful to yourself and certainly useful to another repair yard in Europe.

I monitor the slight bulges where the chain plates are on a regular basis but as Evangeline has been out for our re-fit for 3 years ( West system decks, new betamarine engine and hydraulics, new rig, electrics, plumbing etc. etc...........)
Until we get her sailing again this summer we can only pray that there is still plenty of strength there , as we cannot afford the costs required or the interior damage that would result in order to get access from the inside.

WHEN we have to replace them I would think seriously about mounting external 'strap' type traditional chainplates through-bolted to internal pads. I think that done properly with a horizontal spreader to space them out from the topsides and toerail and to counteract the tumblehome in the topsides would look OK and in-keeping with the now 'traditional' look of the F&C so the old chainplates could stay in and just be cut off flush with the deck.
The above may be a bit difficult to understand but I could knock up a quick sketch if that would help you.

The downside would be the loss of sheeting angle for overlapping foresails.
But not racing anyway and gentlemen never go to windward!!??

Regards
N&S

 

[Holthoefer]

Re: Frers F&C 44

Hello Neil & Sue, As far as I have heard "Fjord VIII" from 1978 is the oldest grp one and was former owned by the Frers family.
You can find the boat on the internet because it is offered by the Broker Jose Frers.
Like you, I had already replaced nearly everything on the boat including teak deck and toerail in former years.
I am not shure about the necessity of a chain plate reconstruction. Bulges can only be seen up high out of water and did not change over the years. Two holes through the laminate to the steal structure revealed rust in the upper region , not in the lower.
In the end I prefer a perfect reconstruction with rigg change to the later models. That means only one chain plate for the main mast at each side and an additional forestay. Very important is a change of the passing through the deck. The old system is never leakproof.
I wish you good luck with your idea, but the delamination would not be solved.
Regards Klaus