I can't speak to the individual sail cloth choices since I don't have direct experience with any of them. I would defer to the sailmaker for that decision, although the "discontinued" sail cloth at a discount is probably a good way to go. The higher end cloth with Dyneema will likely be a bit lighter, and perhaps stretch a bit less than the others, but all of the laminates will be lower stretch and lighter than the woven cloths.

I think you are making the right choice in going with a radial cut laminate sail over a crosscut dacron. That is the decision I grappled with and decided to spend more on a laminate. ( I am waiting for my North NPL Tour headsail to arrive!) All of your 3 options will hold a good shape for a long time, and with the type of usage you are talking about it should easily last you 10 years if you take care of it. No sail likes to be flogged, but it inevitably happens. The key is to minimize the flogging. Don't be lazy and let the leech flutter...get off your butt and tighten that leech line! If the boat is going to sit for long periods of time, take the sail off the furler, flake it neatly and store it below.

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No sail likes to be flogged, but it inevitably happens. The key is to minimize the flogging. Don't be lazy and let the leech flutter...get off your butt and tighten that leech line!

Yes. Some of this is about marital bliss.. She doesn't want to drive, I'm stuck behind the wheel and barking orders about flogging sails may end boat life all together (more important to make sure she is having a good time as well). This past weekend was especially bad because the wind was up, we had reefed this 150%, it doesn't have luff foam and creases when you try to reef it which makes it generally "buzz" and then later we had heck of a time furling it. I'm now going to practice doing the downwind technique with the main shaddowing the headsail and maybe that will at least make the latter ok. And having a smaller sail that fits the boat better should help the former. There's still the tacks themselves that are still a bit rough as well. At any rate it was like.. maybe it's too early for a precious sail. But with the woven dacrons more expensive than cruising laminates right now it is tempting to take the risk that we can make it work out without immediately destroying it.

Oh and also on the list is a functioning autopilot so i can mess with the lines myself Wish it wasn't so hard to do a below deck on a cat 38.. first electrical guy I tried basically said no thanks.. didn't even get to budget

 

Looking for a new 135% genoa for my catalina 38. The current one from PO is a 150% that was recut by them and now doesn't really fit the boat (or never did) and the sailmaker estimated was about 12 years old, on it's second UV cover. In the aftmost track positions (which are only about 1ft away from the winches so can't extend those without also moving winches), the fairlead is pulling straight down on the leech so.. can never get good sail shape up wind as it bags out in the front and the leech curls.

My use case:

• First boat - there are days where the sail might flog a bit either during a tack or trying to furl it. we know this is bad, we will get better.. but we are not there now so don't want to buy a sail we destroy right off the bat (takes some abuse is a characteristic we want)
• On a furler
• Day sailing around San Diego, light wind area (10 knot average - good days are 16 knots)
• Probably 250 sailing hours a year until retirement in 10 years

Since i'm not circumnavigating or anything, would like to lean on performance, getting better at sail trim.. etc. And I'd like it to last, so so far looking at tri-radial

Tailing with local Sailmaker.. Covid has materials all over the place and upside down cost. His first 3 proposals were, in order of price LOWEST to most expensive. Based on availability also given supply chain problems.

1. Dimension CDI cruising laminate (on clearance basically cause they have moved to CDX)
2. Challenge Ultra Palma - ultra-PE reinforced cruising laminate - so new they don't even have anything on their website yet / nobody has a sail made from this.
3. Contender Pro Radial - woven ; yes this is the most expensive - covid/demand?
4. Contender Pro Hybrid w/ Dyneema - i asked for this one based on searching here / google and people like it and Hyrdranet, this one being the cheaper of those two

I am a little nervous about the cruising laminates due to the "takes abuse" concern. But, maybe that is more at play for people with way more sailing hours per year than us? We don't have to worry about mold at least, hardly ever rains. Lots of UV though

So, given the sailing hours and intended use, opinions? What's going to grow with me and not die of UV damage or abuse before I even can appreciate it? While maybe not overpaying for stuff that isn't going to matter.. i guess. the "good enough" sweet spot.

I purchased new sails for my boat last year and grappled with some of the same issues it sounds like you’re facing. I cruise some and do some day sailing and wanted sails that would last and hold their shape. Went with Quantum and the Contender Supercruise sailcloth in tri-radial cut. Went with a 110 jib instead of the 130 I had previously had to make things easier to manage when the winds piped up - common here in Florida and the Bahamas but maybe not an issue where you are. Fully battened main and added the Tides Marine sail track and slides, also. Definitely glad I went with the Dacron cloth and tri-radial cut because for me it was the right balance of performance, durability, and cost.

 

Thanks, gonna try to get down to the shop today to look at samples to see if that sways me at all.

 

Here is a good article from UK that looks at the different grades of dacron. All dacrons are not created equal, and cheaper dacron will not hold it's shape as long as a good dacron. I suspect cloth quality is the biggest difference between the bigger lofts and the online "budget" lofts.

NEW STUDY SHOWS THE DIFFERENCES IN DACRONS — UK Sailmakers

It’s one of life’s truisms. You think you’re doing yourself a favor buying based on a low price...and you end-up disappointed when what you receive is low quality. This is particularly true with Dacron sails. Many cruising sailors opt for traditional Dacron sails over more expensive laminate sails b

www.uksailmakers.com

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If you are going to get a radial panel sail and want dacron, then get a radial dacron cloth. Don't try to do it with a cross cut weave.

Mark

 

If you are going to get a radial panel sail and want dacron, then get a radial dacron cloth. Don't try to do it with a cross cut weave.

Mark

I'm not even sure it is worth paying extra for a radial cut using Dacron.

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I splurged a bit on my headsail. This is the cloth I ordered:

https://www.northsails.com/sailing/en/sails/materials/npl/tour

Unfortunately with shipping issues I'm not going to see it for another month. It was supposed to be here by now!

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That’s awesome material! Congratulations - would love to see pics when you get the new jib flying

 

ok i went down to Quantum today, these options were all from him. After looking at the samples and a long winded discussion of me asking a million questions.. It came down to CDI (the DP discontinued cruising laminate) - the cheapest option vs Pro Hybrid Woven w/ Dyneema reinforcements .. the most expensive (20% difference). Both of these are radial designed fabrics.

Funny you all are talking about Crosscut - he suggested the crosscut fabrics have the most supply chain issues, and that maybe why the cruising laminates are cheaper right now because that's all the sailcloth mfgs can readily make.

Anyway, it finally came down to, the only drawback of the pro hybrid for my use case was cost

• It's more a blue water / tough sail than i may need - plus side is there is no way i will "outgrow" this if our adventures get more adventuresome.
• It should last a very long time
  • Absolute life - Dacron plus side
  • Performance life - fabric reinforcement, radial construction
    • Plus, even if this stretches a bit (but not as bad as pure dacron) - I don't have 30 years racing experience where i could have a super critical eye of sail shape.
• it's still performance enough if we got into beer can racing
• the laminate will eventually fall part somewhere around the 10-12 year mark so .. if i still have this boat i'd be kicking myself for that "only" 20% cost difference
  • If i sell the boat, yes, this is probably a waste of money.. new owner prob won't appreciate it / doesn't have resale value really.. esp at the 10+ year mark
• It's been around awhile, popular.. if i want to do my main in a couple years it can matched up vs discontinued fabric

So, deposit on a 135% Genoa with blend of 7.65 and 6.65 oz Contender Fibercon Pro Hybrid was made. Boat gets measured next week, expect it by july.

Fibercon® ProHybrid Powered with Dyneema - Contender Sailcloth

Our Fibercon® Pro Hybrid reinforced with Dyneema is designed for long lasting cruising performance Carefully designed with performance cruising yachts.

www.contendersailcloth.com

 

ok i went down to Quantum today, these options were all from him. After looking at the samples and a long winded discussion of me asking a million questions.. It came down to CDI (the DP discontinued cruising laminate) - the cheapest option vs Pro Hybrid Woven w/ Dyneema reinforcements .. the most expensive (20% difference). Both of these are radial designed fabrics.

Funny you all are talking about Crosscut - he suggested the crosscut fabrics have the most supply chain issues, and that maybe why the cruising laminates are cheaper right now because that's all the sailcloth mfgs can readily make.

Anyway, it finally came down to, the only drawback of the pro hybrid for my use case was cost

• It's more a blue water / tough tail than i may need - there is no way i will "outgrow" this if our adventures get more adventuresome.
• It should last a very long time
  • Absolute life - Dacron
  • Performance life - fabric reinforcement, radial construction
    • Plus, even if this stretches a bit (but not as bad as pure dacron) - I don't have 30 years racing experience and super critical of sail shape.
• it's still performance enough if we got into beer can racing still
• the laminate will eventually fall part somewhere around the 10-12 year mark so .. if i still have this boat i'd be kicking myself for that "only" 20% cost difference
  • If i sell the boat, yes, this is probably a waste of money.. new owner prob won't appreciate it / doesn't really resale value really.. esp at the 10+ year mark
• It's been around awhile, popular.. if i want to do my main in a couple years it can matched up vs discontinued fabric

So, deposit on a 135% Genoa with blend of 7.65 and 6.65 oz Contender Fibercon Pro Hybrid was made. Boat gets measured next week, expect it by july.

Fibercon® ProHybrid Powered with Dyneema - Contender Sailcloth

Our Fibercon® Pro Hybrid reinforced with Dyneema is designed for long lasting cruising performance Carefully designed with performance cruising yachts.

www.contendersailcloth.com

A well thought out choice! I'm sure you won't regret spending a bit more. The sail will serve you well for many years. The only sails I have ever seen "fall apart" after 10 years are the high end racing laminates. (The worst I saw was an old North 3DL where we literally watched bits of mylar laminate flying off the sail with every tack!) That just isn't going to happen with this latest generation of cruising laminates and hybrids.

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I ordered my FX sails in January and got them last week. I think that is pretty good turn around if you ask me.
I just bent on the mainsail which is squareweave light dacron.

I ordered a tri-radial pentex 155. I don't think it'd be a good choice for you, but I ordered it for racing, and I also did it without a UV cover, because I have a genoa sock that I can raise to block it from UV.

Anyway it seems that its possible to get material.

I will update when I have pictures of the sails up, and how they do racing. I've never worked with FX before but so far as I can tell they seem true to their word.

 

Just got my new North genoa, is in time for opening day! Unfortunately we had pretty light air and rain so we didn't get to really put it through the paces, but looking good so far!

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Nice!

 

I finally got pictures of my sails today. Both the mainsail (radial dacron), and pentex genoa are FX

The mainsail clears the backstay, so not as much roach as my used Piranha race sail. The headsail seems cut significantly higher than my used racing Piranha 155, but about the same as my North 155.

 

That headsail looks pretty cool! It is cut pretty high, which looks strange on a racing sail, but I guess part of that is to make it furl cleaner? On the bright side, you probably won't hang up on the lifelines when grinding to close hauled. The lead angle looks pretty extreme because of the high clew, and you don't have much travel on you genoa car to open the leech up, but as long as it sets ok close hauled it doesn't matter.

It will be interesting to see how that material holds up over time, but it looks fast!

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It looks like you might be at the end of your track now. If it was cut lower, you might not be able to get the leach closed.

Mark

 

It looks like you might be at the end of your track now. If it was cut lower, you might not be able to get the leach closed.

Mark

If it was cut lower the car would be further forward for the same lead angle, so would have more track to work with.

I had a similar problem with a Kevlar sail on my old boat that was cut down off a bigger boat. In that case the clew was higher because the sailmaker rocked the sail forward to recut it to a shorter luff, resulting in a similar high clew.

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I have about another 18 inches of track to move the car back. I played with the cars a bit after these pictures were taken, to see how it opened things up.
Here is the used racing sail I was using versus the FX sail (Black) I jut got. Definitely giving up some square footage. Is it a lot? probably not. Keep in mind I'm off wind with the FX sail, but the clew was easily a foot lower on the old sail. The roach on the mainsail was larger too, and that was actually a huge problem. In the mostly light air we have, the battens would frequently catch on the backstay. I think the new sail will be fast enough no doubt. Generally speaking I like the new sails, and they are exactly what I ordered. In hindsight I might have been better off sending my old headsail to them and saying, make me one exactly these dimensions. But as they say, I think these will do nicely.

I brought these pictures to the thread so others could see the options.

Many moons ago, I had these, and loved them (epsails):