Am I overreacting?

Probably. Just ease the sails a bit to level the boat out until your wife is comfortable. Better yet, hand her the mainsheet and let her trim for HER comfort level. You'll get used to the heeling, but the first few times it's a bit scary.

I got all of that out of my system my first season. 17 mile solo race, more wind than was forecast and way too much sail up. I found that my boat is perfectly safe at 40-45 degrees of heel. Not fast, but safe. Above 50 degrees, the boat just rounds up and it starts all over again. I could even leave the wheel for long enough to collect an errant main halyard while heeled at a ridiculous angle. No problem at all.

 

I would agree with US27 let trim to her comfort, you might also want to put in a reef on the main and or jib. Another way to help her is how My wife got over those same fears and others and that was to get on as crew on a race boat. It did wonders for her convinced and skill levels, now she can't get enough .
good luck we hope to sail your part of the East coast some day

Peter

 

crew on a race boat.

Peter ... the guy we borrowed the boat from is a racer. He went underway with us the first time to show us around. He was WAY to bossy for my wife and now she doesn't want to have anything to do with racing.

I absolutely agree that the experience would be wonderful but it won't be happening with her crewing a race boat!

We've been sailing every good day so far (not many of those up in Maine this year so far ) and with time I think I'll understand the limits of the boat, I just wasn't sure how far was to far.

A friend of mine said if the leeward rail is getting wet - sheet out.

 

Thanks - there's no substitute for experience.

Now I have to figure out when to dump air or reef! Lots of discussion on that topic already so I don't want to bring it up here.

I think it will be a while before I go forward when ridiculously heeled, though

 

That is a good adage. We always say " when in dought let it out"

 

In each case there was finally an incident where husband eventually became verbally forceful with said wife (as in "Sit the %#$! down NOW!"), just moments before the boom came across.

That was me I wouldn't recommend that anyone use this method with their crew, especially their wife, but it was better than fishing her out of the lake and taking a trip to the hospital or worse.

Edit: I do try to be very calm when speaking to my crew (usually my kids) and take the blame for anything that doesn't go as planned, but safety is safety and if I have to turn up the volume to make sure no one gets hurt, I'm more than willing.

 

With good sail controls (esp traveller) keeping your heel to 20 or so degrees should be easy enough... steering technique helps too, as you can "pinch" up in the puffs the feather the sails a bit and take some heel off - just don't go to far or you could be in for an unscheduled tack! The centerboard version will probably be a bit more tender than the fixed keel one.

You'll soon get the feel of it, and realize when you're becoming overpowered, and also feel when you're not sailing to the boat's potential.

As a general rule it rarely hurts to "reef early", generally the first time you wonder if you should reef is the time to do it. Leaving it too late makes it more difficult to do properly because by then the winds up more than ideal.

It's always easy to "shake the reef out" if conditions don't build after all. Plenty of practice with reefing will make it near routine for you, eliminating another potential anxiety builder.

 

All of the above advice is sound, IMO, but I would also suggest that you get used to 25-30 degrees. That is not excessive heal for most boats, and likely where your CB T22 needs to be to "stiffen up".

Casco Bay is a great and often challenging place to learn to sail. Enjoy!

 

Sailing is about fun.

What ever is YOUR confort level is good.

You guessed at you healing angle so that means that there is no device aboard to tell---maybe you were at 40 degrees, who knows, that would be unconfortable.

If the driver feels like it is to much the passangers will to, fear is contages.

Go and have fun and as you do you will gain confidence and if the boat goes over you will find out something else---That is if you can actually get it to go over on its side--- the water is wet and the boat is self righting.

 

Thanks everyone, I feel much better about heeling and won't be so scared now - it's really nice to have a place like to to go and get great advice!!!

Rick's right, "fear is contagious" and my goal is to be prepared so that I may be scared but I never want to sail with fear.

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

There are a few different things that might be going through your head when you feel that heeling the boat is undesirable:

1) It's uncomfortable (you discovered that already)
2) It's inefficient (mentioned by previous posters)
3) Maybe the boat will turn over (which is maybe why you're scared)

When I take friends out for the first time in high winds, they inevitably ask, "Is it normal to be leaning over this far?" or something equivalent. I always tell them that it is basically not possible for the wind to capsize the boat. Most keelboats can be heeled more than 90 degrees (i.e. mast in the water) and the ballast will still cause the boat to right itself, like those stand-up punching bags with clowns on them. I just explain how stability in a keelboat works, and my guests go, "Oh... oh, okay." (You have to start worrying once the waves are more than twice your beam in height.)

My guests happy to know that I am confident that it will not be a problem, even if they're still a little scared

So that's for your edification. Let your wife know that heeling is perfectly safe. Explain to her that, for reasons mentioned in other posts, it's still not what you want to be doing if you can avoid it.

 

IF the boat is heeling that much, it isn't being sailed properly. Keeping the crew on a boat comfortable is important, even when racing, and keeping the boat reasonably flat, so that it can sail efficiently, is part of doing that.

How much easier is it for the crew to function when the boat is only at 10-15˚ of heel, compared to 20˚+, since the crew won't be able to concentrate on their tasks if they're holding on for dear life.

 

20+ degrees is pretty far, I'm not surprised she was a bit scared on one of her first trips..

Putting a reef in is great.. we usually sail in 10-15knts and with the main sheeted in tight we can get 25degrees of heel.. put a reef in, in the same conditions 5-10degrees.. I often put a reef in when there's girls on the boat.. when it's just a couple of guys we put on the gloves and see how far we can get her over !!

On a seperate note, I asked an experienced racer if you could sheet out the main so far as to keep the boat upright in any reasonable conditions.. he said, "of course, but one day your knut$ will drop, and you'll WANT to go fast" needless to say when the wife is on the boat I let the main WAY out, she has more fun.. and it's boring to go by yourself..

 

My two cents

First, let me say I'm sorry to hear your wife had a bad experience with a previous captain. It'll likely take some time sailing before you both are able to overcome it.

Secondly, I'm not familiar with the characteristics of your boat. Most keel boats will self-right no matter what you do to them. Center-boards may not. You should probably check a reliable source or two for specifics on your boat. In any case, I have no doubt it would take some extreme sailing to lay the boat flat.

I've heard sailboats are most efficient on a tack with about 15-degrees of heel. 20-degrees is actually not bad, although you're likely to be overpowering the boat a bit at this point. On the boats I've sailed (not many), the rail didn't start getting wet until around 45-degrees. Past 45-degrees, the boats were just so inefficient, the crew so uncomfortable, the boat so unnecessarily stressed, that sailing was a chore instead of fun.

So, to answer your question...20-degrees of heel is not really that much; but is at or near the point when you should consider flattening the sails, easing the sheets a bit, and/or reefing.

As far as the yelling captain goes... That's not me! If you're always yelling at people, when will they know when things are seriously going bad?...or when they've got to do something right NOW!? Asking your crew, instead of ordering them, goes a long way...and makes for a much more relaxed atmosphere where everyone can have a good time.

Hope you start getting better weather.

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"

 

As far as the yelling captain goes... That's not me! If you're always yelling at people, when will they know when things are seriously going bad

Skipper, J/36 "Zero Tolerance"

Great comment!

 

Ah ha - A T22! I love it.

Pasa Tiempo was our first sailboat - a 1972 Tanzer 22 - #117. We could sit in the cockpit, let it all out and watch the water come half way up the windows down below.

Then we (me - I am the slow one) discovered that

1 - I really much prefer Linda on board with me
2 - Linda does not like our boat over on her side
3 - The destination and trip is much more important than the ETA
4 - Easing out on the main makes a lot of difference in boat comfort
5 - Easing out on the main did not make a lot of difference in speed

Linda is now still on board as my best friend and best sailing mate. We just did 1002 nautical miles up from MD and we had three days that she did not like. All three - she knew we were in no danger, she knew that as soon as we got to the destination (Sandyhook, Gloucester and Portsmith) it would all be OK. And it was.

How many days in the 35 day trip did we sail with Mystery on her side - zero.

If you have lots of ladies to sail with - sail the boat anyway you like.

However, if you have one special person you really love being with - sail it the way she likes. You can always join somebody on a Melges or J boat for Wednesday night beer can racing.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Rik and Linda
Mystery
Irwin Citation 34
trip blog at: Mystery - the Trip Home

 

Its all been covered here

Reef early. If I remember correct the T22 is a tender boat, so if you are not wanting to push it and race reef early.

I do not agree with letting her hold the mainsheet it may be too hard to release in a big gust and if she is unable to release it, she may loose confidence in sailing and the boat.

Do not take a newby racing, unless they are an adrenaline seeker, and like working in a hostile, chaotic environment. It is overwhelming and uncomfortable to the average person and there is too much going on to learn much and too many opportunities for a negative experience. Or at least find the least competitive boat in the fleet, that does not yell. There are boats that are not competive and still yell like crazy. It gives the rest of the fleet a good laugh.

My first official date with my fiance was as rail meat on the boat I raced on back then. She likes sailing but hated the way people barked orders of where and how to sit. We went racing again recently and she was bored when the conditions were moderate and talked about how cool it was when the microburst hit and the boat was on it's ear.

There was a local women's only sailing seminar in town here and I signed her up. She sat through a class that covered some theory then spent a couple of hours in a Cat22 with a women who had spent months cruising the Puget Sound with her huband then decided to build their onw steel boat. She was allowed to helm the boat and make decisions on when to tack and such and came back with a new love for sailing. So much so when I found a boat for sale she was enthusiastic abouth the plan.

Jordan

 

You can do all these things to keep the boat from heeling too much. I am surprised no one as of yet has suggested adding at least one more hull ? Of course it would be like sailing a barge, and won't go to windward, but it will be flat!:laugher .......i2f

 

I like to bury the rail. My wife took this last Sunday while she was reading down below.

 

Good way to lose a perfectly good winch handle........

 

Another Option

This thread reminds me of an experience I had. I had a neighbor that I took out on my Chrysler 22 back when i had it. He had a good time. He was an interesting, tough guy ex-marine MP, had been a private investigator and had just got his PHD and was teaching at the local University.

I moved to another place a little later. He called me a few months later, he had bought his own boat a 30 footer. We went out with him and his girlfriend. He talked about the work he had done and the plans to move aboard soon. I was impressed he was hooked on sailing. We sailed around a bit and I asked to steer to see how a boat that size felt. I started to head up and bring in the sails. They both started getting fidgety and he asked to take back the helm. He immediately fell off the wind and eased the sails. He explained they did not like the boat when it leaned over. I asked how did he plan on getting back to the marina. He said "with the motor". So another option is to sail only downwind and fire up the motor for the upwind legs.

 

Trust me, I was out there with it. Besides,thats why I buy the plastic ones that float.

 

I have learned so much from this thread!

 

Freesail: look closer. That's a locking winch handle.

The Tanzer22 is a slightly old-fashioned hull with soft bilges -- roly poly, but insanely stable. It weighs ~1000# more than the Catalina22 and twice as much as our SJ21; most of that weight is ballast (45-48% ballast ratio!!!). Short of a massive breaking wave on the beam, you will never capsize that boat. The spars & rigging are oversized, the hull stout ... it's a brute. But no slug for all that weight in the keel (PHRF 237). It carries lots of sail to move that weight; best way to stand the boat upright on breezy days is to stick with the working jib (100%er) and leave the dock with a reef (or two) in the main. Get used to the boat in low-power mode, then add sail area as your comfort increases.

Heeling is scary until you've done it for a month or two of regular sailing. Then it's fun. A little while later, a sloped deck becomes your new normal. Having the most-nervous crew helm or share the tiller is one way to overcome the fear. A calm, smiling skipper is another. We took our little SJ21 out in 40 knots (flat water), and I could see my girlfriend inspecting my face for anxiety. If it were there, she would not have enjoyed the day. I knew the boat was fine: the tiller was alive but not loading up, the reefed main taut but not groaning ... and I giggled every time a pile of cold spray came flying over the decks or the rail started running foam. She took her cue from that and settled right in.

First time out in the keelboat each season, I'll admit to nervousness when the boat really lays over. A day in the Buccaneer18 racing dink cures that, tho. Dinghy sailing is a fabulous way to get used to heeling, rounding up, even capsizing. Everything happens faster on a small boat, and it's a nice place to learn the reflexes that will serve you on larger ones. Dump it? No biggie. But you'll learn how far you can push it before it goes, and where the ideal heel angles lie. If you can get out in dinghies -- Zumas, 420s, lasers, El Toros, even Sunfish -- do. His and hers. Play tag, hold mini races, practice synchronized tacking, just play around on some protected body of water. When you get back in a ballasted boat, it'll feel like a battleship and the anxieties will be gone.

 

most of that weight is ballast (45-48% ballast ratio!!!). Short of a massive breaking wave on the beam, you will never capsize that boat.

My T22 has a centerboard ... rare but true. I have switched to the working jib ... the pre-reef is a new idea, thanks.

 

Freesail: look closer. That's a locking winch handle.

It was a joke, errrr he got it ......

 

To the OP ..

Hand your wife a sledge hammer and tell her to put it down at her side. Then tell her that it is like the keel of your boat, heavy. Now tell her to raise her other hand above her head, then you push against it like the wind and tell her to try to keep her arms straight, 180 degrees away from each other. So as you push against her free arm like you are the wind on a sail, she has to raise the sledge hammer up to compensate. She'll quickly discover that at a certain point she can't raise the sledge hammer anymore because it gets too heavy, and that's exactly like it is with the keel of your boat. The more the boat heels over, the less it wants to, because the keel gets "heavier" the more the boat leans over, and the wind also has less effect because the sails are showing less area to the wind, so you get to a point where it would pretty much take hurricane wind to make the boat heel any more.

 

I'm into my 3rd year sailing an Aquarius 23 and heeling has always been a bit of an issue with me but it's getting better. I'm most comfortable at 10-15 degree but have been working on holding at 15-20 degrees. I sail in a moutain lake with great wind but it can often times be rather flukey. I've been caught in a gust and heeled to 30 and I was a bit alarmed especially because my girlfriend was onboard and it scared her a bit. Trying to adjust the sails, keep a hand on the tiller is sort of like rubbing your stomach and patting your head....takes some practice, that's for sure. Realizing that my boat isn't going to capsize and sink took some doing but I'm gaining more confidence each time I sail.

This has been a great thread for me.

 

I think many poeple keep their sheets too tight in general so start there. I noticed a poster recommending flattening out the sails (but wasn't more specific for people newer to sailing), which is what I would recommend if you don't quite need to reef. Tighten your halyards, outhaul and boom vang and use your traveller in addition to your mainsheet to try to flatten your main thus lessing the power of the sail (the looser the sail the more it acts like a wing). Also either reef your genny or use a smaller one (or try adjusting the traveller).

I have found depowering the sails can flatten the boat out just enough to keep everyone comfortable while getting where you need to go.

Also, the comment about using the motor instead of tacking made me laugh...thanks...reminded me of a friend who used to say "gentleman only sail downwind" when talking about sailing with new dates.

also reminded of another quote" racing is the way to ruin the perfectly good sport of sailing"

 

Also either reef your genny or use a smaller one (or try adjusting the traveller).

Whoa whoa, your genoa has a traveler?