the fluid, dot 3, needs changing every season, Mine did the same thing and was fine since the fluid change. I have the same engine too. the shift cable may need to be adjusted also. Keep in reverse when sailing of not using the engine.

 

Thanks Denise! I don't think that was changed recently. I'll buy some and change the fluid.

I read on the Foley Engines site that they recommend Redline Synthetic or their own, Foly Hytork fluid. Do you remember the kind you used?

Hurth Marine Transmissions: The Ins and Outs of Basic Service | Foley Engines

 

Careful about any dealings with Foley... Hurth gears use ATF... and not much of it!

 

Thanks for the warning. I stuck with ATF.

 

Just ATF transmission fluid. here's a pdf. http://l-36.com/manuals/Hurth-Transmission-operating.pdf

 

Thanks again, everyone! We filled the transmission last weeked while we were there, but then the engine wouldn't start - there were problems with the starter. We got the starter off today and found someone who could do a same-day rebuild. That went well and was less expensive than I had expected. Unfortunately, once we got the starter back in place and hooked up, we couldn't get the throttle to shift into forward or reverse. It seems as though the Hurst transmission essentially exploded (internally) sending pieces into the engine which got sucked into the starter. So, now the engine is heading to a marina for repair; hopefully it will "just" be the transmission!

I've read that the original transmission (mine is an HBW 5) isn't made anymore. What's a good replacement?

 

Marine Transmissions, ZF/Hurth Marine Transmission Sales

For a listing of ZF/Hurth gears...

When you say you 'filled' the gear.. be aware that 'full' is a mark only about 1/4 inch up the dipstick, and should be checked without threading it in.. ie.. drop the dipstick in the fill hole and let it rest without turning it in. They only take about 1/2 liter or quart ( possibly less for your smaller model).

Whatever gear you chose, be sure to check the exit angle wrt to the engine plane, the adaptor/bell housing pattern, crankshaft spline, overall length and coupling bolt pattern for compatibility. Large differences can lead to a new/modified prop shaft and coupling, mount relocation, etc that can cause costs to spiral out of control.

 

That's why I had hoped to find a direct replacement.

 

Jim,

Before you get ahead of yourself, wait until the tranny's removed and you know exactly what has failed.

Besides the tranny, the broken bits could also be from your damper plate. If it failed, then your tranny may not need to be replaced.

Like Faster advises, the whole drive train needs a good look over.

The ZF boxes are pretty much the same as the old Hurth boxes. The gearing ratios are a little different, but the dimensions are the same. You should double check the dimensions, but I think that the ZF-10M would be a bolt-in replacement. I know it's a bolt-in for my HBW-100, and I think all the smaller boxes were built using the same cases. If you wind up replacing the tranny, you will need to verify what damper plate you need. Check the diameter, the bolt pattern and the input shaft configuration (# of splines and dimensions, e.g., mine's a 10/29/39.

 

Meanwhile the boat looks sad at my pier

 

Not as sad as I did when we left your pier tonight!!!

But, we're making progress. Slow, painful, and expensive, but we're making progress. Thanks again for the slip!!

 

Twin disk trannys fit the same bolt pattern as the Hurth or Z drive, but are far better trannys, and cheaper as well.
Hurths tend to unscrew and eat the dipstick, and pull it thru the gears and the bearings. I have had that happen to me, and friends have had the same experience. I wrapped a single strand from stainless 1x19 rigging wire thru the hole between the top bolts ,bent a 90 degree bend in the end and stuck it thru the vent hole in the dip stick, to stop it from unscrewing. No problem since.

 

Thank you! When I was looking at the parts diagrams for both the engine and the transmission, I did not see a part that looked like the one that fell out of the Starter when we pulled the starter out of the engine. It turns out that those almost exactly match the springs that are part of the damper plate. That makes me feel a lot better about the way the engine died. No reference that I have found, after searching for some time, showed pictures of the damper plate. Now that I knew what to look for, I was able to do a search and find what a damper plate looks like and I'm almost entirely convinced that that's the correct part. Or, more correctly, the part that died.

Of course, that does not rule out a transmission problem, but at least this is an easier, or at least less expensive, fix.

 

I should add, when we shifted the lever at both the transmission and up in the cockpit, you could feel the transmission slipped into neutral. Hopefully that's a positive sign.

 

One last question, is the flywheel normally wet with oil?

 

Uh-oh

I don't know about the Universal (Kubota block), but my Perkins flywheel was bone dry when I pulled it -- and Perkins are notorious leakers.

I hope the oil doesn't turn out to be more problems...

 

I concur Jim, I felt neutral going by it, both when you were shifting with the lever and when I did it by hand, but felt no engagement at all at the extremes of movement where it should have been in gear.

FYI - other folks, we disengaged the linkage and tried to put it in gear manually, didn't change anything, there is adequate movement of the throw arm.

 

I've heard good things about the TwinDisc transmissions. Definitely worth some research if you wind up having to replace the gearbox.

For comparison's sake, here's a reference that will give you details on your current tranny:

Hurth 5-10-20 Service Manual

BTW: I noticed that the drop (the offset between the tranny's input and output shafts) for the HBW-5 is 62mm; the drop for the HBW-10 (which became the HBW-100, which became the ZF-10) is 72mm. That shoots my "same case" theory in the arse.

Books are good -- much better than guesses

 

It wasn't super wet, but the pieces from the damping plate were dark, like they had been covered in oil, and it looked like some of the teeth from the flywheel had oil on them. Not a lot, not super high up the flywheel, but on the teeth. There was some oil in the bilge, too, and my dad's idea was that perhaps the back seal had a slow leak that was causing there to be some oil inside the engine and inside the bilge.

Well, hopefully I'll learn more in the next few days.

 

I just did a catch up on this thread.. bummer Jim! Not very inspiring for my own and same engine trans that are in my boat! Please keep us posted! I'm keenly interested in part sources for this OLD stuff.
Fair... win... err, transmission!

 

Yeah, I'll keep filling in info as I get it. It was frustrating, but at least we were able to get the starter working, and the engine started. That's a good start (pun intended)!

 

I spoke with Ferry Point Marina, and they (understanably) can't fit me in today, so it will have to be some time next week. The service manager there, Mark, said that the only way for the damping plate to break is for there to have been a "catestrophic failure", which would have been caused either by the transmission seizing (which I think is a possibility since it was dry when I got aboard, but not as likely given that we can still feel it moving in and out of gear) or by the prop snagging on something. He didn't think the disc would just deteriorate due to age; I'm not so sure I agree with that.

Anyway, they will be troubleshooting the problem next week.

Interestingly, he mentioned that if the prop was fouled on something, that insurance may pick up the cost of the repair, minus any deductable (of course). That's not usually how my luck runs, though...

 

I think flex plates fail often and rattle allot! I've seen what they look like coming out. Shudder....Then.. where do people buy them?
Looking at the book (thanks! Por-Fin) I think a friend and I could rebuild mine if necessary. "someday"

 

Denise, here are the sources I've found so far for the damper:
Sailboat Supplies, Engine Parts and Boat Parts
Universal, Damper, 299156
Universal 299156 Sailboat Supplies, Engine Parts and Boat Parts
299156 DAMPER - Engines1
Westerbeke - 299156, Electrical, Generators - Parts, Generator Parts, Westerbeke-Damper #299156 - FirstChoiceMarine.com
Discount Marine Source - Westerbeke, Damper, 299156
DAMPER (WESTERBEKE P/N 299156) (#UJHW299156) - Performance Product Technologies

There's also an interesting discussion here:
SailboatOwners.com - Anyone Tried These Motor Mounts
Apparently most of the dampers were made by Sachs, but Universal actually tried a few others as well. As a result, you have to be careful...

 

Jim,

Just to raise the suggestion again --

Don't buy a new damper plate until you know your tranny is salvageable. If you wind up having to buy a new gearbox, then there's no guarantee that your brand new, freshly purchased damper plate will fit the new unit.

I've got my fingers crossed for you on this one.

 

Thanks for the reminder! I'm just researching and trying to document my research a bit. I agree, buying anything at this point would be premature. The marina will be troubleshooting some time next week, then we'll figure out what to do.

 

wooo lookie at dem prices! they's all over da place!