I recently sold my self built Kurt Hughes 38ft tri as I was finding her a little expensive to maintain. I decided to go full circle to where I was at 30 years ago with a 22 footer mono. I have been looking closely at the Sun 2000, Beneteau 21.7 and the Etap 21i. All seem to have more or less the same vital statistics and similar price except the Sun 2000 which is a lot less expensive. Im not sure which to go for.Does anyone have any input ,good or bad on any of these?
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cannonball
Why are you looking at these three boats specifically... there are quite a few boats in that size range that might be a good choice... that are probably comparable in price.
Hello Canonball,
About one year ago, I was exactly in the same situation, except for the Etap....
I was hesitating between a Beneteau First 21.7 (or 210, 211) and a Jeanneau Sun 2000. I choose this last one because of his ability to go in very "low tide waters".
The Sun 2000 is supposed not to be as faster as the First but, to be honest, I've been very surprised by its performances. This boat is so easy and comfortable that O really don't regret this choice.
As I was looking for testimonies before buying it, I created a little website to sum up all the data about this boat founded on the net: sun2k.free.fr
It's a french personal website (as you can read, English is not my native language.... sorry)
Anyway both are really good boats!
Have a nice day
Mat (sun2k)
About one year ago, I was exactly in the same situation, except for the Etap....
I was hesitating between a Beneteau First 21.7 (or 210, 211) and a Jeanneau Sun 2000. I choose this last one because of his ability to go in very "low tide waters".
The Sun 2000 is supposed not to be as faster as the First but, to be honest, I've been very surprised by its performances. This boat is so easy and comfortable that O really don't regret this choice.
As I was looking for testimonies before buying it, I created a little website to sum up all the data about this boat founded on the net: sun2k.free.fr
It's a french personal website (as you can read, English is not my native language.... sorry)
Anyway both are really good boats!
Have a nice day
Mat (sun2k)
Sun2k
If I could speak French half as well as your English is I would be a happy man..Learning a foreign language for me is a Mt. Everest..
If I could speak French half as well as your English is I would be a happy man..Learning a foreign language for me is a Mt. Everest..
BTW, most Etap's are considered "unsinkable", since they have a double hull with foam flotation in-between them. However, this eats up a lot of space in the boat that would normally be used for stowage.
I am going to assume, the OP is in europe............as the sun 2000, 2500, SO29.2 are not typically shipped to north america! nor are the Beneteau's in those smaller sizes.
The reality is, for most of the posters on here, are in NA, vs europe, you may or may not get a good answer.
I will say, my older 85 Jeanneau is built better IMHO than the new ones, and for that matter, better than the Beny's too. As far as newest models, personally, still feel the Jeanneau's are better, excepting the First's, then they are better than the Oceanus and SO models from jeanneau. No experience personally with the Etap. And my impressions for the beny's and jeaneau's are with models 30+ ft in length.
marty
The reality is, for most of the posters on here, are in NA, vs europe, you may or may not get a good answer.
I will say, my older 85 Jeanneau is built better IMHO than the new ones, and for that matter, better than the Beny's too. As far as newest models, personally, still feel the Jeanneau's are better, excepting the First's, then they are better than the Oceanus and SO models from jeanneau. No experience personally with the Etap. And my impressions for the beny's and jeaneau's are with models 30+ ft in length.
marty
Hi Sun2K. I just checked out your webste. Looks great, I whish I could read the articles though The main drawback I see on the Sun is no twin rudder. Do you find heavy steerage when she heels. I can always build carbon twins if necessary ,or even a swing rudder like Ive seen on some open 40s . I always like to do mods to new boats anyhow,just to personalise them. Is the build quality as good as with the Benny , laminate thickness etc, do you think? Thanks for your help.
The main drawback I see on the Sun is no twin rudder. Do you find heavy steerage when she heels. I can always build carbon twins if necessary ,or even a swing rudder like Ive seen on some open 40s . I always like to do mods to new boats anyhow,just to personalise them. Is the build quality as good as with the Benny , laminate thickness etc, do you think? Thanks for your help.
Cannonball,
Listen to what Alex (Giu) says. He is located in Portugal, and he knows Europe market and boats well.
When he speaks about a boats he speaks about that particular models and not about brand in general.
If you are not sure about his knowledge just read about his fast boat he designed. His son will be future Olimpic champion in Sailing if things go in the right direction.
Listen to what Alex (Giu) says. He is located in Portugal, and he knows Europe market and boats well.
When he speaks about a boats he speaks about that particular models and not about brand in general.
If you are not sure about his knowledge just read about his fast boat he designed. His son will be future Olimpic champion in Sailing if things go in the right direction.
Hi cannonball
I own an Etap 21i. A lot depends on what type of sailing you want. The best built of the 3 is the Etap. The fastest is the Bene.
I have sailed both and the Bene is the most fun, the Etap will give you no surprises but sails very well. I have no experience of the Jeanneau.
If you are looking for a boat for family sailing and cruising then I would recommend the Etap, if you like racing and dinghy type performance then the Bene. On our Marina there is a considerable number of Bene 211 which never sail. I think they were bought as first boats and they have taken the wife out for a first sail and she has nearly jumped overboard in fright and they don't go out again.
all this IMHO
I own an Etap 21i. A lot depends on what type of sailing you want. The best built of the 3 is the Etap. The fastest is the Bene.
I have sailed both and the Bene is the most fun, the Etap will give you no surprises but sails very well. I have no experience of the Jeanneau.
If you are looking for a boat for family sailing and cruising then I would recommend the Etap, if you like racing and dinghy type performance then the Bene. On our Marina there is a considerable number of Bene 211 which never sail. I think they were bought as first boats and they have taken the wife out for a first sail and she has nearly jumped overboard in fright and they don't go out again.
all this IMHO
You might try www.jeanneau-owners.com for info on the sun200 also. I seem to recall a few folks posting that they have them, altho the 2500 IIRC is more popular. Including one that recently circumnavigated France thru the channels etc.
marty
marty
Jeanneau Sun 2000
I convinced Jeanneau America to import one to the US. I have been very pleased, especially with the performance, and build quality. I have the new infused hull. My local boat repair people drilled the hull for installation of a few mods and they could not believe the consistency of the layup. I still have a piece of the core and it is completely without air pockets or signs of other problems with hand laid hulls. The hull is very stiff and does not flex to the hand or chop.
I would guess it is the most tender of the three. If you are going to single hand, you need to reef early. It is the easiest to launch and trailer, with the fully retractable swing keel. I think the Etap can only be trailed with the twin keel. The weight is similar to the others.
John
PS. Use Google to translate the S2K website, it works pretty well. The site is very well done.
I convinced Jeanneau America to import one to the US. I have been very pleased, especially with the performance, and build quality. I have the new infused hull. My local boat repair people drilled the hull for installation of a few mods and they could not believe the consistency of the layup. I still have a piece of the core and it is completely without air pockets or signs of other problems with hand laid hulls. The hull is very stiff and does not flex to the hand or chop.
I would guess it is the most tender of the three. If you are going to single hand, you need to reef early. It is the easiest to launch and trailer, with the fully retractable swing keel. I think the Etap can only be trailed with the twin keel. The weight is similar to the others.
John
PS. Use Google to translate the S2K website, it works pretty well. The site is very well done.
Thanks JP, some good info there. I think youre right about the Sun being most tender.I looked at one today and was told that the ballast weight is an iron casting laid in the bilge and the centre board is fairly light ,therefor the c of g does not get lower as the board is deployed. The Benny has all the weight in the drop keel so that makes sense. Also, the Benny has about a foot of iron protruding when its folded away ,so thats a lil more protection if drying on rough ground. The Sun is pretty much flush along the bottom when board up. But as you say thats also a bonus sometimes
What is the CB in the sun2000 made of? if it is just wood, could one install a metal custom board? that would make it a bit less tender. This might be worth doing if that model is the one you like over the other two.
Marty
Marty
Then that mod is worth looking into if a bit more stability is wanted. Even a thin plate of iron or aluminum, say 1/4-1/2" with glass around that might get you a bit more stability in puffs etc. That would add all of 200 to maybe 300 lbs at most to the CB. So depending upon the bolt size etc in the CB, very doable IMHO.
My step dad in the 70's built a Glen-L 21CB. He made the DB about an 1/8-1/4" thicker than designed, giving it 475 lbs of CB vs 400, and while not a lot of wt, still seemed to give it a bit more stability vs other TS's with 300-400 lbs of CB. Mainly SJ21's that were more prevalent in the Seattle area that I could get on etc as a teen.
Just a thought and certainly worth looking into if you want a bit stability when sailing in stronger winds. Not sure I would mess with the rudder, unless going aground a lot like here in puget sound with rocky bottoms etc. Then again, most folk do not beach there boats here, as it is a long wait if you beach at high tide, and the tide goes out some 8-12' and in some places, many yds to the waters edge!
JP, there is a owner rendezvous in the san juans the last weekend in june if you want to take a 2 wk vacation and sail around up there. Been going on for 7 or 8 yrs now. It would be interesting to see a small jeanneau.
marty
My step dad in the 70's built a Glen-L 21CB. He made the DB about an 1/8-1/4" thicker than designed, giving it 475 lbs of CB vs 400, and while not a lot of wt, still seemed to give it a bit more stability vs other TS's with 300-400 lbs of CB. Mainly SJ21's that were more prevalent in the Seattle area that I could get on etc as a teen.
Just a thought and certainly worth looking into if you want a bit stability when sailing in stronger winds. Not sure I would mess with the rudder, unless going aground a lot like here in puget sound with rocky bottoms etc. Then again, most folk do not beach there boats here, as it is a long wait if you beach at high tide, and the tide goes out some 8-12' and in some places, many yds to the waters edge!
JP, there is a owner rendezvous in the san juans the last weekend in june if you want to take a 2 wk vacation and sail around up there. Been going on for 7 or 8 yrs now. It would be interesting to see a small jeanneau.
marty
Keel
Ski - I think the metal keel would work if done right. The current keel is lifted easily without a winch so that would be another mod.
I would love to attend a Jeanneau rendezvous, the SJ are a ways from MN, but I trailered her once from Baltimore, so maybe.
I may try to attend the South Haven RV someday too.
Ski - I think the metal keel would work if done right. The current keel is lifted easily without a winch so that would be another mod.
I would love to attend a Jeanneau rendezvous, the SJ are a ways from MN, but I trailered her once from Baltimore, so maybe.
I may try to attend the South Haven RV someday too.
Guys, extra weight in the board will of course stiffen her, but the extra loading in the bilge area would mean more engineering to prevent the bottom ripping out. They only build em to their calculations. I do like the look of the Sun best of the 3 though, and for a yacht to have a dedicated website with hundreds of keen members has to tell me something.Maybe Ill rig a trapeze and hang over the rail
No trapeze needed...
Just a single reef at 15Kts or more than one person on the rail. There is a lot of sail area (mast is a lot longer than the boat).
I single hand a lot so I am running all lines aft. The reefing system is nice so easy to do from the cockpit with the lines lead back.
Do you plan to use a slip or trailer?
Just a single reef at 15Kts or more than one person on the rail. There is a lot of sail area (mast is a lot longer than the boat).
I single hand a lot so I am running all lines aft. The reefing system is nice so easy to do from the cockpit with the lines lead back.
Do you plan to use a slip or trailer?
Ease of trailering
I asked because the Jeanneau and the Benny both have similar standing rigging are not "easy" to set up each time. I made a mast rigging system, copied from the Jeanneau model. It cost me less than a 100 USD vs 700 USD + for the option through Jeanneau.
If you were going to trailer, you may be happier with the Jeanneau. It is very easy to get on and off the trailer.
They are all great boats. I wish we had these options in the US. There are a few older B210 and 211, but all have the shoal or fixed keel and I wanted the swing, beacuse I keep her on a lift.
I have not been offshore, the Great Lakes are in the future, but I will stay in sight of the "coast."
My son and I spent a weekend aboard and had a great time. I added alot to the interior, storage, electric, lights, fans, and mini bar!
Mainly use for fun and daysailing off the lift. See my pic on my profile.
John
I asked because the Jeanneau and the Benny both have similar standing rigging are not "easy" to set up each time. I made a mast rigging system, copied from the Jeanneau model. It cost me less than a 100 USD vs 700 USD + for the option through Jeanneau.
If you were going to trailer, you may be happier with the Jeanneau. It is very easy to get on and off the trailer.
They are all great boats. I wish we had these options in the US. There are a few older B210 and 211, but all have the shoal or fixed keel and I wanted the swing, beacuse I keep her on a lift.
I have not been offshore, the Great Lakes are in the future, but I will stay in sight of the "coast."
My son and I spent a weekend aboard and had a great time. I added alot to the interior, storage, electric, lights, fans, and mini bar!
Mainly use for fun and daysailing off the lift. See my pic on my profile.
John
If the Sun will suit you the best for your type of needs, buy the thing! i am sure there are "better' built boats out there per say. But then again, what are you going to do with it? it may very well be built to the specs etc you need, spouse if there is one likes etc.
A number of folks on here bash the not sure I want to say it this way "entry level" or coastal cruiser style boats.......but they serve a purpose! many like myself, like my 85 Arcadia, warts and all. I like JP find my boat needs a reef at about 15 knots depending upon the headsail I have up. The 142 yes at 15knots, the 110 I can go to 20-22 before reefing!
Yes there are many on the owner site that post, I think I have seen JP on there, Zanshin another whom posts here posts there, as do I using my name vs handle here.
As Alex mentioned, the three you are looking at, all have positives, all have negatives, none do everything well! So choose your poison per your needs, do not look back, and enjoy the boat!
On this side of the Atlantic, we pretty much have Catilina, Hunter, and MacGregor for 20-25' TS style boats, I think if you put all 6 next to ea other, all would have positives and negatives. I am remembering one other, but the name escapes me for trailering too!
If you by the sun, welcome to the Jeanneau owners group! Sends some pics to Malcolm on the JO site!
Marty
A number of folks on here bash the not sure I want to say it this way "entry level" or coastal cruiser style boats.......but they serve a purpose! many like myself, like my 85 Arcadia, warts and all. I like JP find my boat needs a reef at about 15 knots depending upon the headsail I have up. The 142 yes at 15knots, the 110 I can go to 20-22 before reefing!
Yes there are many on the owner site that post, I think I have seen JP on there, Zanshin another whom posts here posts there, as do I using my name vs handle here.
As Alex mentioned, the three you are looking at, all have positives, all have negatives, none do everything well! So choose your poison per your needs, do not look back, and enjoy the boat!
On this side of the Atlantic, we pretty much have Catilina, Hunter, and MacGregor for 20-25' TS style boats, I think if you put all 6 next to ea other, all would have positives and negatives. I am remembering one other, but the name escapes me for trailering too!
If you by the sun, welcome to the Jeanneau owners group! Sends some pics to Malcolm on the JO site!
Marty
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