my scanner crapped, hang on I'm getting the picture ready now.

 

Lancer, to me seems like your sailing method needs revising, not the boat....it depends on how big your main is in relation to your genoa, and if your rig is fractional or not, and what is your boat's tendency in a puff...does it develop a lot of weather helm???

I think you should cleat the main, and fix it..then just hold the genoa sheets in your hand. Releasing on puffs, this is not very good, or do the opposite...

Cleat the genoa and use the main in the puffs...this is what you should do...

Don't sail with both in your hands...

 

i don't get much weather helm on any of the boats unless I'm slow and let the sail get sloppy. I must be lucky; my boats are balanced nice. I have heard some stories about yachts with bad weather helm and how much people like to lie about it, hahaha!

The 323 and the 28 have mastheads, the 14 footer has a fractional.

Photo:

 

Are you trying to race the boat or just cruising. It doesn't sound like your getting the right trim if your constantly having to sheet out in a gust. The boat shouldn't be heeling so far over, that you can't heel a bit more with the gusts. If your heeled that far over to begin with, you should have a reef in both sails.

 

Ok so let me see if I got you right.

I should hang on to the main and helm? (I can uncleat the main from that huge harken block I have on it by simply snappping the line and it comes out of the cam.

The genoa sheet would go from a winch to the cleat, tied off.

Use the main to control heel in a puff.

How about my wacky routing to be able to sit on the high side of the boat?

 

Lancer, you can allways install a swivel rotating cam cleat on each side, (basically its a cleat installed on a rotating base), and then you cleat the genoa which now will be easy to release, by pulling the shhet up.

Still I think its your technique, rather than the boat.

You may also install a clutch type cleat before the genoa which and simply use the winch to sheet in, then close the clutch.

 

No racing, just cruising around. The problem with reefing is that the wind here is generally light, and then out of nowhere you can get a wind tha racks the nerves quick.

If I reef, it seems to never blow, if I don't it always blows fast. Then I need to release the sheets, reef, and go back to sailing, almost reactionally, not being proactive.

I don't like to heel over 20 degrees in the bigger boats, even though I know it will sail at way over that, even close to 30-35 with the rail in the water. The 14 footer dinghy sails FAST heeled over with a rail in the water and I don't care about what happens if I go too far with it, because getting wet in that boat happens all of the time anyhow from spray or just the open cockpit.

It is a comfort thing I guess. does that help?

 

Yes, you normally cleat the genoa and only carry main and rudder in your hand...release the gusts with the main only.

This way, if your main sheet block rotates, which it should, does not matter where you seat...does it??

 

Oh! The rotating cleat and clutch should be a good idea. Both things I can quickly put on the boats.

 

Where do you sail?

 

Lancer,
See photo bellow you can see the clutch cleat before the winch there.

I am looking for the reference of the rotating cleat, give me a few minutes as I am going thru my boat's hardware list.. I have 6 of them for the Spi.

The white sheet is the genoa, clutched in, this not only takes the shhet of your hand but also releases the winch for the use with the Spi, the red sheet.

 

Lance..there you go..this is all you need...one on each side, and I would install before the winch, so you can release the winch if you want

Lewmar Swivel Cleat CLICK

Ronstan CLICK

These are the ones I use, because I can remove them for cruising, from Harken

They use a block before, not shown. The ones in photo are mid range, I use large boat ones, but same ****

 

And should you want a clutch, there you go...

 

NICE thanks, I already use a clutch for my three halyards on the 28' and I love it.

I'll go order a couple of pairs of those rotating cleats now.

THANKS AGAIN

 

Lancer: Lots of people trim their jibs on the high-side winch. It's called cross-sheeting. You need longer-than-usual sheets, of course. And good organizing & forthought, as with all things single-handed. But ya, you can use the lee-side winch as a block and grind on the weather-side winch. It will place pretty heavy stresses on the lee winch, so it needs to be sturdy.

Here's a little video for ya:
http://www.expertvillage.com/videos/sailing-advanced-hiking.htm

 

Hello,

I am very curious as to where you are sailing. I sail on the Long Island Sound.

On my boat, the main sheet is trimmed with a winch mounted on the cabin top. The genoa sheets are close to the helm station.

When I sail, the main sheet is left on the self tailing winch. The genoa will be trimmed and left in the self tailing sheet as well. If the wind is gusty I will hold the genoa sheet so I can ease it in a puff. Usually, I find that it's just as easy and effective to just pinch up a little and luff the sails. When the puff passes I can head down back on course.

My boat (and my last boat) is a masthead rig with a relatively small main and larger headsails. I have never felt it necessary to hold the main and release it during a puff. If it seems like a gusty day I will use a lot of twist in the main so it can be depowered easily.

Barry

 

Does your boat have a traveller? If so that is what you should be releasing when you heel too much. Set the main for the right conditions. It sounds like you should have the outhaul and downhaul pretty tight. This way when the random gusts hit your sails won't have a "pocket" to fill with air. Ease the mainsheet to give it more shape in light air, when a gust hits, sheet it in all the way. If you start to heel too much dump the traveller to leeward (slowly). If you have a good traveller you can adjust it under full load. If the Genoa is on a roller/reefer, just reduce sail quickly when the wind picks up. Sheet the Genoa in until it just stops luffing when all the way out. Then when the wind picks up you can yank on the roller line and tighten the sail up to reduce the pocket. Using the traveller can help balance the helm too. Easing sails in heavy wind actuall increases heeling because you are powering up the sails.

 

Thank guys for the help.

I sail in Colorado, but getting ready to leave for Texas to take a cruise in the Gulf for a few months (or more) after sailing around there for a few weeks.

 

another thing that might help is to replace the turning block with a ratchet block.

 

I don't understand the mechanics of how a rachet block can help can you explain that to me?

 

A ratchet block only turns in one direction, so it requires less force to hold the sheets, since the block will resist the genoa pulling on it quite a bit, especially under a load, since the more loaded the block is, the stronger the grip the ratchet block sheave has on the rope. If you release the load on the line, it will slide through the sheave will a bit more resistance than a normal block.. but as soon as you put any tension on it...the sheave will grab the line.

It's very similar to the idea of using a chain stopper when hauling up the anchor manually. It takes the load when you're not actually pulling the chain in...allowing you to rest a bit more—same idea. The ratchet block takes most of the load when you're just maintaining the trim position, but you still will have to work to trim in... but it will help relieve your hands of much of the load when you're just "holding the sheet". Try one... you'll be amazed.

 

A ratchet block only turns in one direction, so it requires less force to hold the sheets, since the block will resist the genoa pulling on it quite a bit, especially under a load, since the more loaded the block is, the stronger the grip the ratchet block sheave has on the rope. If you release the load on the line, it will slide through the sheave will a bit more resistance than a normal block.. but as soon as you put any tension on it...the sheave will grab the line.

It's very similar to the idea of using a chain stopper when hauling up the anchor manually. It takes the load when you're not actually pulling the chain in...allowing you to rest a bit more-same idea. The ratchet block takes most of the load when you're just maintaining the trim position, but you still will have to work to trim in... but it will help relieve your hands of much of the load when you're just "holding the sheet". Try one... you'll be amazed.

SD, a jib-sheet winch does exactly the same thing... no??

--Cameron

 

are you racing or just out for day sails?

 

I wanted to come back to this thread to let you guys know what I've come up with - and it works great.

I'm running the genoa sheets out along the toe rail through harken turning blocks, then up to a final block that carries it to the winch. If it is the low side winch, I use it as a turn to go to the high-side winch "cross sheeting" I understand it is called now.

I actually tried the clutch idea, but it didn't work out and I used them and the rotating cleats for my dinghy instead.

It didn't work out because I was unfurling the winch drum and then I would have to wrap it again to re-trim later. Now for cruising, and if I needed that winch for something else, I could always run a clutch, since I have spares now. It doesn't work with my inland sailing because tacks only last 10 minutes.

I think I had a lot of change to make to my technique, rather than hardware.

Thanks everyone for helping me out here. I can see that the clutches would be useful if I was crusing and I had to fly a kite, but not this season...

 

Oh - dangit... one last question - how would I increase the purchase of a jib sheet before the winch? Is this better posted on a new thread? I'm still having problems with my 120, 150 and 170 pulling the crap out of the winch on close points.

ORRR, am I sailing these sails in too heavy of air?

(My final block is a rachet now too, just fyi)

 

(My final block is a rachet now too, just fyi)

Lancer, I'd be most interested to know how often you end up actually using the ratchet feature. We were taught as kids how to ease sheets using the sheet winch (as we do now) and I've never seen it as a problem that needed a ratchet block to fix...

--Cameron

 

I don't think you can increase the purchse of a jib sheet with blocks on a 28 foot boat. Try a bigger winch handle or a double handed handle. All sails in the upper part of their wind range will challenge the winches. We have Lewmar 46STs and even so if not racing I usually luff up a bit to allow the last foot or two of the sheet to be trimmed...


Bye the by, I don't see how you would or can use a rachet block with a winch, Do you need to take the sheet entirely off the winch to ease the sheet out? Then put it back on the winch to trim? Certainly a very novel use of a rachet block.