[clayjay]

Then again.....why not just accept it as an accident and get a life ?

Why oh why do you Americans always believe that someone, ANYONE but them should have to pay for anything untoward that happens to them ???
It was America that started all this awful claim culture whereby any ******* can go out and do the dumbest, most stupid stuff, suffer some kind of injury or loss and then expect someone else, whether company or individual to pick up the bill because they were born with an IQ of 2.

So the guys mooring line broke, I'm sure he didn't think they were weak enough to break or he wouldn't have secured his own boat with them. So he made poor judgment - if that gives someone grounds to sue the courts will be full up for years to come taking care of all the dickheads who voted in Bush !
Hell, why not sue god for making the storm (I'm sure if he had an address to serve papers at some cretin would have done it by now - in fact if you believe Hollywood someone already has, for striking his boat with lightening)

Anyway, while your at it don't go for the measly cost of the repair, if ya gonna be a bear - be a grizzly. Go for mental stress too, that's got to be worth about $5,000,000, it was probably pretty hard on the 'lil lady at home as well having to listen to your pissing and moaning so she's gotta have something too for her subsequent depression, say $10,000,000 ?

And so with all that money you can go out and buy the powerboat you always really wanted......and a house with it's own mooring !

 

[knothead]

Why oh why do you Americans always believe that someone, ANYONE but them should have to pay for anything untoward that happens to them ???
It was America that started all this awful claim culture whereby any ******* can go out and do the dumbest, most stupid stuff, suffer some kind of injury or loss and then expect someone else, whether company or individual to pick up the bill because they were born with an IQ of 2.

So the guys mooring line broke, I'm sure he didn't think they were weak enough to break or he wouldn't have secured his own boat with them. So he made poor judgment - if that gives someone grounds to sue the courts will be full up for years to come taking care of all the dickheads who voted in Bush !
Hell, why not sue god for making the storm (I'm sure if he had an address to serve papers at some cretin would have done it by now - in fact if you believe Hollywood someone already has, for striking his boat with lightening)

Anyway, while your at it don't go for the measly cost of the repair, if ya gonna be a bear - be a grizzly. Go for mental stress too, that's got to be worth about $5,000,000, it was probably pretty hard on the 'lil lady at home as well having to listen to your pissing and moaning so she's gotta have something too for her subsequent depression, say $10,000,000 ?

And so with all that money you can go out and buy the powerboat you always really wanted......and a house with it's own mooring !

I was with you till you called me a ********.

IT'S KNOTHEAD DAMMIT

 

[sailingdog]

I don't get it... This isn't the same as the idiot woman who burned herself with a cup of steaming hot coffee. Only an idiot would classify the two in the same category. One was a woman being exceptionally stupid and trying to profit from it... the other is someone who did everything they were supposed having his boat damaged by someone who DID NOT. Not exactly the same thing.

The OP here had done his due diligence and taken responsibility for HIS OWN BOAT. If the owner of the boat that hit his had done the same thing, there wouldn't be an issue at all. However, the owner of the other boat DID NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS BOAT.

This was not a named storm, or even all that severe a storm from what I can see. The only two boats that were damaged, were damaged because the lines on the OP's neighbor's boat chafed through. Basic common sense says that you need to use chafe gear on dock ropes.

Basic common sense says you should use enough dock lines so that your boat won't become a hazard if any one of them breaks. Basic common sense says that you should check your docklines for chafe on a regular basis, and replace any that are chafing through. This dockline didn't chafe through like that overnight more likely than not-it probably occurred to some degree well before the storm did.

This is not a case where the OP did something stupid and expects to be compensated unnecessarily for it... but, apparently, you don't have the brains or the common sense to realize that.

Why oh why do you Americans always believe that someone, ANYONE but them should have to pay for anything untoward that happens to them ???
It was America that started all this awful claim culture whereby any ******* can go out and do the dumbest, most stupid stuff, suffer some kind of injury or loss and then expect someone else, whether company or individual to pick up the bill because they were born with an IQ of 2.

So the guys mooring line broke, I'm sure he didn't think they were weak enough to break or he wouldn't have secured his own boat with them. So he made poor judgment - if that gives someone grounds to sue the courts will be full up for years to come taking care of all the dickheads who voted in Bush !
Hell, why not sue god for making the storm (I'm sure if he had an address to serve papers at some cretin would have done it by now - in fact if you believe Hollywood someone already has, for striking his boat with lightening)

Anyway, while your at it don't go for the measly cost of the repair, if ya gonna be a bear - be a grizzly. Go for mental stress too, that's got to be worth about $5,000,000, it was probably pretty hard on the 'lil lady at home as well having to listen to your pissing and moaning so she's gotta have something too for her subsequent depression, say $10,000,000 ?

And so with all that money you can go out and buy the powerboat you always really wanted......and a house with it's own mooring !

 

[knothead]

I don't get it... This isn't the same as the idiot woman who burned herself with a cup of steaming hot coffee. Only an idiot would classify the two in the same category. One was a woman being exceptionally stupid and trying to profit from it... the other is someone who did everything they were supposed having his boat damaged by someone who DID NOT. Not exactly the same thing.

SD, I don't know how true this is but I heard that the particular fast food restaurant that served the "idiot woman", makes, or used to make their coffee considerable hotter than usual. Just a couple of degrees below boiling from what I understand. The purpose for this was that they apparently were able to use less coffee for the same amount of water. I had a cup recently at a location in Georgia and I can tell you that it was much hotter than anything that ever comes out of my coffee maker.
I have spilled coffee on myself in the past but if I spilled that coffee it would more than likely have required hospitalization.

I'm not necessarily defending her but there is sometimes more to the story that we read in the daily paper.

BTW, that particular fast food restaurant is claiming to have gourmet coffee. Sorry, it ain't.

The OP here had done his due diligence and taken responsibility for HIS OWN BOAT. If the owner of the boat that hit his had done the same thing, there wouldn't be an issue at all. However, the owner of the other boat DID NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS BOAT.

This was not a named storm, or even all that severe a storm from what I can see. The only two boats that were damaged, were damaged because the lines on the OP's neighbor's boat chafed through. Basic common sense says that you need to use chafe gear on dock ropes.

Basic common sense says you should use enough dock lines so that your boat won't become a hazard if any one of them breaks. Basic common sense says that you should check your docklines for chafe on a regular basis, and replace any that are chafing through. This dockline didn't chafe through like that overnight more likely than not-it probably occurred to some degree well before the storm did.

This is not a case where the OP did something stupid and expects to be compensated unnecessarily for it... but, apparently, you don't have the brains or the common sense to realize that.

I understand both sides of this issue, but where I have a problem is where you say the "The OP here had done his due diligence and taken responsibility for HIS OWN BOAT". In my humble opinion, due diligence would have included checking his neighbors dock lines and doubling up on them if he thought it necessary or at the least hanging fenders. Especially if the neighbor wasn't around much.
If he asked the owner of the offending vessel to change or add docklines and he refused then thats a whole different issue.
If I were in a slip and there was a boat next to me or even the possibility that a boat would move in, I would have fenders out. Just in case the guy bumped me tyeing up.
If you were to leave your boat for any length of time, don't tell me that you wouldn't check and make sure that any boat that could likely make contact with yours is tied up properly.
As you say, the line probably showed signs of chafe before it failed on that fateful night. If someone had even just looked at it, the whole problem could have been averted. If the OP didn't want to double it up himself then he should have reported the problem to the marina and made sure that something was done.

I am not trying to absolve the neighbor from responsibility, but clayjay does make a point, (albeit rather abrasively), that we here in this country are a little sue-happy.

 

[bubb2]

I have held my tongue, but no longer.

I can't help but wounder if the OP was so unwilling to write a check to insure his boat and if it was his boat that broke loose and damaged his neighbors boat how quick and willing he would he be write a check for the damage to his neighbor. He did not take responsibility for his own boat. If he did this matter would be between insurance Co's and not wasting space on sailnet.

There is also a coverage in marine insurance policy's that most people don't think about is fire legal labially. It pays if a fire starts on my boat and spreads to another boat or burns up half a marina. I cannot help wonder about the OP personal worth, I hope he has deep pockets as soon or latter he will need it. A person not insuring his boat is a hazard to all of us.

"The OP here had done his due diligence and taken responsibility for HIS OWN BOAT". I think not!

 

[sailingdog]

Yes, but the OP isn't responsible for his neighbors boat... Would it have been prudent to check his neighbor's boat... yes... was it his responsibility-NO. There's the difference.

Besides, who's to say that between the time the OP checked on his boat, and re-tied the neighboring boat, the neighbor didn't come down, use his boat, and re-tie it in his usual, careless fashion. That is why it is the responsibility of each individual boat owner to make sure his boat is properly secured.

Yes, fenders would have been prudent. But if the neighbor did his job right, they would have also been UNNECESSARY.

Bubb2-

I disagree. It was the owner's choice to not insure his boat... and he is liable for any damage that his boat causes if it should catch fire and damage other boats... however, that is his choice... he did do his responsibility as far as regards to storm preparation and proper dockline arrangements.

 

[bubb2]

Dog, If the Op cause's damage lets hope he can write a check to cover it. As in most states we are required to carry coverage to protect us against uninsured motorists. It is people like this that costs you and I extra money as we insure our selfs against the know risks and costs us more when we have to pay extra to insure against the guys who don't carry insurance.

I hope he's never docked next to you. or me.

 

[knothead]

Would it have been prudent to check his neighbor's boat... yes...

Yes, fenders would have been prudent.

I guess thats where we disagree. In my mind being prudent is the most basic component of due diligence.

 

[NOLAsailing]

I would hope that the OP has at least liability coverage. I was under the understanding that you had to in order to get a slip. If not, then OP - get it!

Some have suggested he should have noticed his neighbors lines and taken action to correct it. You can't do that. The day before Katrina came through, I noticed that my slip neighbor (an Islander 36) had almost no scope on his lines, no springs, and his sails and bimini were still up. He came out to "check" on the boat and it took a lot of talking just to get him to take the sails down (we had just had tropical storm that shredded a couple dozen sails throughout the marina and he was still reluctant). He soon left and I KNEW that is a major storm arrived, his boat would break loose. It did and it landed on my Triton. However, I would not want to be the last one that adjusted his lines. If it broke loose anyway, it would effectively be my fault.

Clayjay, what's all this "you Americans" crap? First, wherever you live, you have to accept responsibility if you damage someone else's property. George Washingtom himself first said, "You break it, you buy it." Also, in case you haven't been paying attention, you're either with us or against us, so get with the program.

 

[knothead]

Some have suggested he should have noticed his neighbors lines and taken action to correct it. You can't do that. The day before Katrina came through, I noticed that my slip neighbor (an Islander 36) had almost no scope on his lines, no springs, and his sails and bimini were still up. He came out to "check" on the boat and it took a lot of talking just to get him to take the sails down (we had just had tropical storm that shredded a couple dozen sails throughout the marina and he was still reluctant). He soon left and I KNEW that is a major storm arrived, his boat would break loose. It did and it landed on my Triton. However, I would not want to be the last one that adjusted his lines. If it broke loose anyway, it would effectively be my fault.

You can't do that??...... Maybe you can't but I damn sure can, have and would do it again. If someone wanted to sue me, more power to em, I would love the chance to defend myself against charges like that.

Katrina is a pretty extreme example. Was your slip-mate the only boat to break loose in your marina?

 

[sailingdog]

Most states don't require anything in the way of boat insurance. Most marinas do...but apparently his does not.

I agree with you that uninsured boaters cost us money... so do idiots who buy houses in floodplains...

Even if he were docked next to me or you, it wouldn't be a problem, since we probably have insurance to cover anything that happens.

Dog, If the Op cause's damage lets hope he can write a check to cover it. As in most states we are required to carry coverage to protect us against uninsured motorists. It is people like this that costs you and I extra money as we insure our selfs against the know risks and costs us more when we have to pay extra to insure against the guys who don't carry insurance.

I hope he's never docked next to you. or me.

 

[sailingdog]

So knothead, is your boat wrapped with bubble wrap to protect it from every possible impact?? That would be prudent, would it not???

I guess thats where we disagree. In my mind being prudent is the most basic component of due diligence.

 

[bubb2]

Dog, remember, I have been involved in a boat collision where my wife was injured. (4 crushed disks permanent nerve damage) the other boater was found to be at fault. you can only get medical payments from you own insurance policy. loss of income, disability etc. comes from the party that is found at fault. if that party is uninsured you better hope he has assets.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/8103-can-happen.html

 

[knothead]

So knothead, is your boat wrapped with bubble wrap to protect it from every possible impact?? That would be prudent, would it not???

No, it's not. Bubble wrap doesn't work as well as a fender. So that would be stupid, not prudent.

 

[NOLAsailing]

Katrina is a pretty extreme example. Was your slip-mate the only boat to break loose in your marina?

Not so much.

Click here for my hurricance photos in the marina

 

[dongreerps]

liability

Seems there is too much cart before the horse thinking going on in this matter. Logically, someone whose property has been damaged should approach the situation stepwise: 1) Figure out what you wish would happen to make it right. 2) Figure out what you appropriately desire the other party to do in the situation 3) Talk it over with the other party 4) Only as a last resort descend to litigation.
Please sit down and write yourself a letter describing what you wish the other party would do to make you whole again. Hide that letter. It is getting steam off your mind.
Then sit down and write a letter to the other party describing what you expect them to do to make your situation better. Be realistic, and appropriate. Write it as if some spy would steal it from you, and get it published on the front page of the local paper. In other words, don't say or ask for anything you would be ashamed of everyone learning. No anger. Just a reasonable person talking to another reasonable person about a problem that both of you desire to solve by working together. Think about what kind of letter you would want to get if it had been your boat that had done the damage.
Having written the letter, your thoughts will be clarified. Put the letter in your desk, and go talk to the other guy. Be friendly. Present the problem, and what you hope for, but do not ask for a response. Give the guy a chance to think it over before he responds to you. Treat him like you would like to be treated if it had been your boat that did the damage.
Immediately go home and write down everything you can remeber about the conversation, in case you have to go to the law. But first try and resolve it between yourselves.

 

[sailingdog]

Very true and a very good point, but currently, we were discussing unattended boats sitting at a dock in a marina during a storm.

Dog, remember, I have been involved in a boat collision where my wife was injured. (4 crushed disks permanent nerve damage) the other boater was found to be at fault. you can only get medical payments from you own insurance policy. loss of income, disability etc. comes from the party that is found at fault. if that party is uninsured you better hope he has assets.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/8103-can-happen.html

 

[cardiacpaul]

Once again, fine folks, we've travelled the minutae route.

Neither the OP's boat, NOR the offending boat were insured.

There was MINIMAL damage (considering) and the 'value" of these tubs would't buy an electric windlass for Cam's or Dad's boat. (sorry guys, you know what I mean)

Check your ideals against your purse strings. How many of you HAVE boats worth a little more than 2k, (not 100k)and how many of YOU have all the required insurance riders? His state doesn't require insurance, and he made a calculated risk not having any. I wouldn't even try to insure a older 20 ft boat, cost far more than the value.

Yes, his boat got damaged. get 3 estimates for repair, and certify/registered mail the guy copies. See if he'll come up with some scratch.
If not, stroll down to the courthouse and file a small claims suit. Good luck with that, if the repairs are over say, a grand, the judge will look over their glasses at you and say "how much would your boat sell for today?"

Remember, they may have sources to check, so be in the ballpark. If the repairs are over half the value of the boat, don't look to collect all that much. (I should say "awarded") collection is another bag of beans altogether!

anyway, good luck with the repairs.

 

[tweitz]

You may be looking at the wrong insurance. If the other boat owner has homeowner's insurance it may cover liability for the boat. It is analogous to liability and collision insurance for your car. Liability covers claims by other parties -- you, for example. Collision (or in the case of boats, hull insurance) covers damage to your own vehicle. He may have elected to not get hull insurance. The only person who takes a risk there is himself. Liability invoves risks to others, If you were to sue him or make a claim, his liability insurance would be invoked. Many homeowner's insurance policies cover all liability unless there is an exclusion. There is always an exclusion for boats, but that exclusion is itself often limited to boats 26 feet and over or with engines greater than some fairly low horsepower (6 comes to mind, but your mileage may vary). Tell the other guy to look at his homeowner's policy.

Also an awful lot of the comments here seem to assume the laws and rules are identical everywhere. They are not. Jurisdiction and procedure in small claims courts varies dramatically from state to state and often within states. I also have never heard of a small claims court excluding lawyers anywhere, it just doesn't pay to hire one for a small claim.

 

[camaraderie]

I also have never heard of a small claims court excluding lawyers anywhere, it just doesn't pay to hire one for a small claim.

Exactly...but when you sue a corporation, they must have a lawyer speak for the corporation...hence a small claims court case is often settled by the corp to save $$ over the cost of the lawyer.