[whitewater7]

An update

I explained what happened to the other persons insurance company (Erie), and was told a claims adjuster would call me. It's been over a week, and they didn't call. I was hoping they would assess the damage without me having to tow the boat around to get official estimates.

I explained what happened to my insurance company (State Farm). I was told that since I have home owners insurance, I would have liability coverage if someone gets hurt on my boat AND up to $1000 coverage in the event of a "peril". My insurance company's agent said that they couldn't help me because my boat was damaged by the other person's boat!

The other insurance company says they don't cover damage caused by a storm.

So it seems that both insurance company's are dropping the ball, so to speak. Shouldn't the insurance companies be working this out between themselves, instead of me?

Happy Holiday weekend everybody!
Fortunately, I have a canoe, and will be out on the water too!

 

[camaraderie]

Shouldn't the insurance companies be working this out between themselves, instead of me?

They have worked it out and decided that they are not responsible to pay you anything.
You next move is to take the OWNER to small claims court for the amount of damages. You will win with the proper evidence and then HE can fight with his insurance company over what they owe HIM.
BW...I've never heard of an insurance policy that denies liability for damage to someone else's boat based on the weather except in a NAMED storm. I think that is BS. But it doesn't really matter to you. Just sue the owner.

 

[NOLAsailing]

Before suing the owner, you need to make a reasonable effort to get this amicably resolved. The court will look for that in making their determination. When I posted on the front end of this thread, I was thinking this was a major storm that tossed a lot of boats around. In viewing your photo of his dockline, though, and based on your statement that the only boat damaged is yours, I agree with you that the neighbor is culpable.

I would write a letter that identifies the issues (politely) and makes a clear statement of what your looking for. Keep just to the bare facts - storm came, his boat was inadequately secured, his boat damaged your boat. Also, don't just say you want your boat repaired. Have a repair estimate from a local yard and make a provision for unforeseen costs.

Suggest that he utilize his insurance company and give him a reasonable amount of time to respond (5 or 7 days). If he doesn't, sue him.

 

[whitewater7]

I just checked my mailbox and did recieve a letter from Erie. They want to talk to me. At least I know the ball is rolling.

Thanks for your advice and comments. I've never sued anybody before, so your opinions have been very re-assuring. I'll let you know about the final outcome.

 

[camaraderie]

Yeah...keep us posted as this is interesting WW...also...follow Jason's advice rather than my short "sue him" advice as that should really be the last step and he should be given a chance to pay himself before dragging him to court. I was just thinking that if HIS insurance company is giving him a hard time then he may NEED you to sue him so he has proof of his liability in the case. Good luck!

 

[jgeissinger]

Insurance and boat damage

I realize I am getting in to this a week late, but I would like to offer some advice if you have not proceeded with some other action. Essentially, your problem is that you didn't bother to adequately insure your own property against damage. You apparently have only a homeowners policy, which as you said provides liability coverage and some small amount of property damage. Since the other party's insurance company knows that you don't have your boat properly insured, they will probably ignore you. Doesn't your marina require some sort of minimum coverages and proof of insurance? I really don't want to sound like a jerk here, but I think you may possibly be out of luck. I hope not for your sake, but in the future if you have anything you can't afford to lose, get it insured.

 

[sailingdog]

Jgeissinger-

How does whitewater's lack of adequate insurance mitigate the other boater's responsibility to properly tie up his boat and secure it for a storm???? Just curious as to what bassackwards thinking comes up with that logic.

 

[jgeissinger]

Insurance

Sailingdog, it is very simple. If he had adequate coverage, his insurance would have repaired his boat and then decided, by communicating with other insurance carrier, whether there was liability on the part of the other boat owner. At that time his company could try to recover the damages from the other party. The point is that this would all be done by the insurance companies. All he would have to do is get his boat repaired, and not go through all this hassle. Also, there's really no need to yell.

 

[knothead]

So you get your day in court and everyone is riveted to your discussion of springline deployment.......................... If we took all the incompetent people out of boats where would we be then.... Be all the room in the world at the dock now. That would be my defense, incompetence. You have to know what you are doing to be negligent. He can plead stupidity.

If you are looking for some sympathy, you got a fair amount of it. I just read the original post and all the replys and thought to my self you got to be kidding. You need more in your life to occupy yourself than taking pictures of frayed rope and comiserating about your neigbor's boating incompetence.

Get over it. Sell the boat and get something else if the sight of it is going to upset you about the injustice of incompetent neighbors, big unexpected storms, and boats that go bump in the night.

I recall a client I had when I was in the insurance business. Someone had put a glass on his $40,000 dinner table and it left a ring. He wanted the table replaced. We offerred to fix it. "He could not live knowing when he had guest that the table was repaired". You don't have a brother in Denver?

DW

Duck, I gave you Pos reps for your first post but the system wouldn't let me give you any more for the second. So I have to respond.

If you don't have insurance for your boat then you damn well better make sure your neighbors have good dock lines.

I am no fan of insurance companies but they aren't your fairy god-mother for Pete's sake.

Take responsibility.

 

[knothead]

Jgeissinger-

How does whitewater's lack of adequate insurance mitigate the other boater's responsibility to properly tie up his boat and secure it for a storm???? Just curious as to what bassackwards thinking comes up with that logic.

Before you jump all over me SD. (notice I said before not lest), All I'm saying is that if it were me (and I suspect you), I would have made sure that my neighbors vessel was tied up properly if I were going to be absent from my own for any length of time.

If, for some reason I was afraid of adding a line to my neighbors boat then I damn sure would have hung a sh!# load of fenders over the side I was worrying about.

If I wasn't worrying at all then I don't have anyone to blame but myself.

 

[sailaway21]

Sailingdog, it is very simple. If he had adequate coverage, his insurance would have repaired his boat and then decided, by communicating with other insurance carrier, whether there was liability on the part of the other boat owner. At that time his company could try to recover the damages from the other party. The point is that this would all be done by the insurance companies. All he would have to do is get his boat repaired, and not go through all this hassle. Also, there's really no need to yell.

That's a load of hooey! The other insurance company is likely trying the standard practise of making any recovery as inconvenient as possible. Just because they wouldn't pull the same malarkey with another insurance company doesn't make the practise reputable.

Carrying insurance on a two thousand dollar boat is a waste of money unless you get a rider stating that you're paying for replacement value. And we all know what that would cost. The idea that Whitewater should have insurance so that his company can do what his own simple phone call and explanation are capable of doing is the type of thinking designed to line the pockets of insurance companies for little of value to the purchaser.

There's more than enough of insurance companies running rough-shod over the little guy already without encouraging more of the practise. And, if it sounds like I'm yelling it's because I'm sick and tired of such corporations not doing what they are contractually obligated to do without the other party hiring a damn lawyer. Maybe Erie will step up and all will be dealt with appropriately but neither Whitewater, nor the insured boat's owner, should have to go through this. And shame on you for implying Whitewater's negligence in not carrying insurance.

 

[knothead]

.....Carrying insurance on a two thousand dollar boat is a waste of money unless you get a rider stating that you're paying for replacement value. And we all know what that would cost......

Cost of doing business.

Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

If it ain't on paper, it don't mean S#!T.

Whoa, cliché overload.

 

[sailaway21]

Knotty,
I think it's a rational decision based upon the owner's knowledge of his lack of insurance; he'll use and take care of the boat in a manner befitting his lack of coverage. In this case, there is another responsible party and so his decision to carry or not carry should be moot.

 

[CalebD]

I believe that ALL CAPS is considered yelling, boldface would be considered speaking loudly (which is what Cam used on his previous post). In this case I have to side with Sway. Hell and gosh darn, a brand new Sunfish probably costs around 2 G's. Does anyone in their right mind get marine insurance on them (besides perhaps a club with a fleet for LIABILITY purposes)?
Now I know that WhiteWater's boat ain't no Sunfish but it also ain't a new Colgate 26 or anything like the comparable value of said asset. A few years premiums for insurance would equal the value of the boat. That said, if you do not insure directly, you self-insure, meaning you can cover any liabilities arising from your boat AND damage to your own (which would include disposing of it if it came to that).
In this case the other boat owner is likely liable for damages for inadequately securing his vessel to the dock. I think he really needs to get a marine surveyor to come and do a damage/loss survey that should indicate the liability of his dock neighbor just to back his a$$ up should he end up in court. The survey would have to be considered 'testimony' from an expert witness, as it were, in a court. A surveyors report should carry a bit more weight with a judge than a bunch of pictures and explanations. A survey could also be forwarded to the insurance companies involved that are much happier to deal with surveyors than owners.

 

[camaraderie]

The liability here is from the poorly tied up boats' owner. I matters not at all whether he had insurance, whether the damaged boat owner had insurance or what any involved insurance companies have to say.

If one boat owner's negiligence ends up damaging your boat...then HE is responsible for fixing it or providing fair market value for the boat...whichever is less. You can get this resolution amicably from the owner, or from the owners insurance company but if push comes to shove, you can get it in small claims court.
Court is especially helpful if the owner is insured and the insurer will not pay because the insurer will needs to be represented in court by an attorney. (It's a rule for corporations). Attorneys going to court cost more money than the repair so the company WILL cut a check even if they think there is a chance they could win in court.
This comment applies only to small claims court and the specific circumstances related by Whitewater.

 

[sailingdog]

Thanks guys... as I said....

How does whitewater's lack of adequate insurance mitigate the other boater's responsibility to properly tie up his boat and secure it for a storm????

Simple. It doesn't.

 

[sailingdog]

You obviously have no idea what personal responsibility and liability mean, do you?

Sailingdog, it is very simple. If he had adequate coverage, his insurance would have repaired his boat and then decided, by communicating with other insurance carrier, whether there was liability on the part of the other boat owner. At that time his company could try to recover the damages from the other party. The point is that this would all be done by the insurance companies. All he would have to do is get his boat repaired, and not go through all this hassle. Also, there's really no need to yell.

 

[jgeissinger]

Liability

Yes, of course I do. Going out of your way to throw in a personal attack was uncalled for and unnecessary. I get your point. Just let it drop, okay?

 

[Duckwheat]

Lack of insurance.....

His lack of insurance is more indicative of the value he assigned the boat. He made the decision it was not worth much. From the pictes I would have to agree with his judgement. Now that the neighbors boat got loose it has become the Mona Lisa on water.

Nothing presented so far has "proved the neighbors negligence or liability". We just have whitwater's version of the occurrence.

I would like to put $10 on it WW gets blown off by the insurance companies. Small claims do not allow representation(lawyers) in most jursidictions.

Then he has to ask himself, the boat was not worth insuring, but it sure is worth suing the neighbor. I spent 12 years in the insurance business. The guy who called threatening to sue, was like a dog with no teeth. Yap, Yap.......... It was the letter notifying your client is getting sued is the only thing worth paying attention to.

Thoughtful as ever in Idaho

DW

 

[Rockter]

You are going to make someone very rich, if they charge $5000 to fix that.
Get yourself 5 litres of WEST system, two part epoxy, some breathing masks and ear defenders. Go in with a grinder, and grind off those metal studs sticking down that will resist you closing the gap.
Put a big strap around the boat and ratchet it tight to close the gap.... close it and no more.
Slacken the rig until it's floppy.
Working form the inside, take the same grinder, and roughen up the GRP surfaces about 5" either side of the gap to give you a key for the WEST system.
Get yourself some GRP weave... say in 3 grades... coarse to fine.
Wet the weave with the two-part mix WEST system, wet the keyed surfaces.
Lay up the weave along the closed gap. Over-do it.... say 6" too long and 4" overlap each side.
Cut the next weave a little narrower and a little shorter.
Continue until it looks strong enough.
Make sure the job is continuous... no week-end breaks.
Do not slack the strap until the job is cured.
Tension your rig again.
Two part epoxy is very strong indeed.... just make sure that the job is not too stiff or too strong. Spread your repair stiffness. It does not look like it was very strong to start with.

At the end of the job it will not leak, and will be as good as it was, and you get to keep and use your boat, assuming you wanted to keep it.

You also don't have to bankrupt the guy next door. He will have problems fixing his own. Legally it sounds like it was a failed line on his boat that caused it, but there was nothing willfull about it. Why not fix both of them at once?. The jobs look very similar.... you learn so quickly when you have to.

Get him to buy some new mooring lines.