It would bother me too. However, how many boaters out there have no idea what the lights mean anyway.

 

I believe that there are plenty of freighters, cruise ships, commercial fishermen out here who definitely know what the lights mean and most are moving at a considerably greater speed than a sailboat.
The last thing I'd want to do is confuse a tired watchstander on a 600 foot plus ship moving at something like 18 knots.

 

AIS transponder. Problem solved.

Mark

 

I still maintain that the masthead tricolor is a very dangerous idea at any time.

Capta can you explain why? I usually choose masthead tricolor over the deck level lights for visibility.

FWIW I do check the alignment. And my lighting control panel actually prevents the use of both deck level and tricolor at that same time (selector switch, you get one or the other). But aside from those issues is there another reason the masthead tricolor is a bad choice?

 

Capta can you explain why? I usually choose masthead tricolor over the deck level lights for visibility.

Real life experience;
Piloting my freighter south through the Anegada Passage on a fairly blustery night (what's new about that?) I was on the bridge, wide awake and taking my watch seriously, not sitting in my helm chair relaxing.
I saw a running light (don't remember if it was red or green) ahead so I walked out onto the bridge wing to look carefully at the disembodied light waving about ahead. Not being able to determine it's distance away, I headed over to the radar to check it out but never made it to the radar, as this light slid by the bridge wing before I got anywhere near the radar. I ran back out to the bridge wing and saw the yacht slide by my hull about 15 feet away!
A masthead tricolor is only a colored light waving madly about somewhere ahead.
Deck mounted running lights shine on the sea, the sails and the spray which gives the observer some idea of the distance away the vessel might be. Add to that the stern light shining on the wake and an observer at 50 to 80 feet off the water even has some idea of how long the vessel is.
Again, a disembodied light wildly waving about gives an observer on a ship none of the information the deck mounted lights can.
In several other instances in harbors, I have been surprised to come across a completely unlit sailboat in my path, only to realize sometime later (after cursing the other captain for being unlit), that he had a masthead tricolor that was completely obscured by my bimini.
As mentioned above perhaps AIS could help with this situation (mine was pre-AIS by many years), if it is functioning on both vessels and if someone is monitoring it.
Personally, I'll not trust my life to an electronic device that may not be installed aboard the other vessel, can be shut off because the operator gets tired of hearing the alarm go off incessantly, or for any other reason. Remember the two navy ship collisions recently?
Ever since that night, I have been vehemently opposed to masthead tricolors, though the vertical red/green sailing lights are an acceptable alternative if one feels their deck mounted running lights aren't sufficient in themselves.
Way too many sailors forget that the majority of the vessels they may encounter are not looking at them from the same vantage point (6 feet or so above sea level) that they are, on their sailboat.

 

How do tricolors and deck level nav lights get wacked out of alignment? Mine are screwed into place and have no "adjustments". I personally like my tricolor. In a seaway, my deck mounts have an effective range of only about fifty feet. Whereas I could spot tricolors a couple miles away. I spot merchant ships from miles away and call them up on the VHF to let them know what direction they should look to see me.

 

There are a lot of boats w/o lites..running and anchored.
Ive seen barges ganged together planted in route fairways..zippo lighting.
I think its the locals...doing what the locals have been doing for many years.
Ill also agree thats it can be difficult to get a read on distance and direct for some.
Ill add the fored3ck lite when going into an anchorage at dark...wishing for a
spotlite

 

All friends here....right?

 

I have to admit, while I agree with the premise of the OP, I think deck lighting is very old fashioned and fairly ineffective technology. It does require electricity, after all, so it isn't like it's a natural solution. When studying for my Captain license, I found it arcane to have to memorize the light patterns. Ridiculous really.

Personally, any good light on a ship at night is appreciated, so I can tell they are there, if I had no other solution. I get annoyed at folks not following the rules, because I worry there are others they don't know or don't care about too. Admittedly, however, we all make unwitting mistakes too.

However, a modern digital radar can identify lobster pots in the water, so there is no reason to think it can't identify a recreational sailboat. That wasn't always the case. Add AIS, and I'm a supporter of making it mandatory for night ops, anything offshore, or in a shipping channel, and this problem is solved.

 

However, a modern digital radar can identify lobster pots in the water, so there is no reason to think it can't identify a recreational sailboat. That wasn't always the case.

Yes, modern radars are a step above the older ones, but still a technology which most don't know how to use well. Couple that with many current radars don't do ARPA well, and that a small sailboat in only medium sized waves does not present much of a target return - lends radar less likely to be reliable compared to AIS or even running lights.

FWIW, we have an excellent radar system that does ARPA extremely well, and we know how to use it to full advantage. We consider our radar a vital piece of navigation equipment. However, I would rather count on the other boats having AIS and eyeballs than a having good radar and operating knowledge of it.

Mark

 

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make her think.

Though the water is regulated... it's also seen as a environment of *personal freedom* that the old wild west. Most know and follow the rules and sensible behavior. Too many don't and size is not the determinant as the Costa Concordia or the Exxon Valdez demonstrate.

An intelligent sailor or boater or mariner knows where to find the information these days... all now accessible from a smart phone they carry 24/7.

There dumb and willful ignorance and a fair amount who can't afford what they need and punt.

 

I understand the argument that not every boat is manned by watchful and knowledgeable people, and I agree with that. However, it undercuts the argument that masthead lights are ineffective, as well as the argument that simultaneous operation of masthead and deck lights is stupid.

It argues for lighting your boat up like a christmas tree with every light on board. And playing loud music. Colregs be damned.

(Maybe Disney agrees with me?)

I'm still looking for a well-reasoned argument against masthead lights, and not a series of tangentially-related anecdotes that do not involve masthead lights. Particularly anecdotes that describe unreasonably stupid or careless people or reasonably unlikely events.

My first priority is to avoid these type of navigation situations. For this I rely on my running lights (masthead under sail) and my AIS transponder to broadcast the most information about me the farthest I can, as well as my AIS, eyeballs, and radar to provide me as much information as possible.

I trust my information input over my output, and take proaction myself. I consider my actual running lights to be the weakest link, and the deck lights weaker than the masthead.

Mark

 

A masthead light is the STEAMING LIGHT.... ON a sailboat it is not at the top of the mast... above halfway to 2/3 up from the deck. The lights at the TOP of the mast would be an anchor light or a tricolor. If you are motoring the masthead light is to be lit.

What is the rule for for port and starboard lights for motoring? Can you use the tri color and the masthead?

 

OK, sorry. I meant tricolor mounted on the top of the mast. It is an under sail only light.

When motoring, it is the deck mounted nav lights and the white light halfway up the mast, which you are referring to as the masthead light, while I always think of it the steaming light (on our boat, I have the deck mounted nav lights and the masthead light on the same circuit labeled "steaming lights").

The tricolor is not used for motoring, although I am often guilty of forgetting to turn it off when turning on the steaming lights as I drop sails just outside an anchorage to enter at night.

This bit of understandable forgetfulness at a period of much activity transitioning between sail and power, resulting in a boat coming into an anchorage with both its tricolor and deck mounted nav lights on, is why I ignore complaints about it from others already at anchor.

Mark

 

OK, sorry. I meant tricolor mounted on the top of the mast. It is an under sail only light.

When motoring, it is the deck mounted nav lights and the white light halfway up the mast, which you are referring to as the masthead light, while I always think of it the steaming light (on our boat, I have the deck mounted nav lights and the masthead light on the same circuit labeled "steaming lights").

The tricolor is not used for motoring, although I am often guilty of forgetting to turn it off when turning on the steaming lights as I drop sails just outside an anchorage to enter at night.

This bit of understandable forgetfulness at a period of much activity transitioning between sail and power, resulting in a boat coming into an anchorage with both its tricolor and deck mounted nav lights on, is why I ignore complaints about it from others already at anchor.

Mark

Commonly seen.... and the terminology is confusing... a sailing boat has a *steaming* light for motoring... but it's technical word is masthead. And on motor boats it IS at the head of their mast! My panel uses the word MASTHEAD.. and the NAVIGATION switch turns on bow and stern lights... separate switch for ANCHOR and TRICOLOR lights.

 

not sure where you get 120 degrees? we have the ged and green running lights mounted on the mast and are used while under power with the white light on the top of my mast which is 360 degrees or you could say it is 225 degrees forward white light ( steaming portion ) and 135 degrees to the rear ( stern light ) it just happens to be mounted in the same case. When used as a tricolor it is 112.5 degree of red on the port side and 112.5 degree of green on the starboard side and 135 degrees of white too the stern. the LEDs change color. this is used when under sail. when used as an anchor light it is 360 degrees of white light mounted on the top of the mast.
https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/5p/CG-5PC/INV/Alerts/1015.pdf

 

Correct the masthead light is not seen from aft... I don't know the precise arc of visibility... 240 or something..

 

i guess the stern light would not be called part of the masthead light even though mine is mounted on the masthead. the terms are confusing because the USCG calls it the mast head light because it is mounted on a mast and it faces ahead like a head light so it is a mast head light not masthead light

 

Cant see how these lights can work legally, when you are operating under power a 'stern' light located at the top of the mast does not meet any stretch of the definition of a stern light. Also a risky arrangement.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

A white seen from aft at the top of a mast reads as an anchor light

 

 

thank you... picture worth 1000 words

 

The lights on our boat is the way it came from Beneteau and the same as all the other small beneteau models for many years. it is done on the under 12 meter models and does meet the colregs. i think it is a clever way to light a small boat and is far easier to see when at sea. this system is starting to be the norm for other manufactures as well. so much so that several light manufactures are making the mast mounted bi color lights which gets the lights up off the deck to be seen over the waves. there are several big power boats in the harbor that have their stern lights mounted higher then my 40' mast

 

The lights on our boat is the way it came from Beneteau and the same as all the other small beneteau models for many years .... i think it is a clever way to light a small boat and is far easier to see when at sea.

Can you explain? I'm afraid that i dont have a beneteau, or even a boat from this century i'm just curious about what this light configuration is.

 

About 10 years ago, we were sailing overnight from Key West to Naples. At about 3:00 AM, southwest of Cape Romano, I saw a single light ahead. It started out red then appeared to turn yellow. This got my attention because of what a yellow light could signify (pop quiz: What does a yellow light indicate?). I kept looking at it but my sleep-deprived mind couldn't figure out what it was. A single yellow light, no other lights. We had just sailed by this location a couple of weeks earlier, so I knew that there wasn't a private buoy at this location. I woke up my wife to come on deck. Eventually we realized it was a tri-color light of a boat that was wallowing in the swell. We would alternately see the red and white as the boat rolled, making the light appear yellow. We arrived in Naples early the following day. Another boat pulled up to the city dock several hours after us and we overheard them talking about how uncomfortable their night at anchor had been. Rather than sailing overnight or heaving-to, they had anchored offshore in the shallow waters and left their tricolor light on rather than turning on their anchor light. This experience has made me very skeptical of tricolor lights. I agree with Capta.

 

first one is when under sail


second one is under power

 

first one is when under sail

second one is under power

I don't think the motoring sailboat shown in your pic is compliant with COLREGs. I'd never seen this picture before, but it appears to have been taken from a website for Virginia inland lakes, which are not subject to USCG jurisdiction. Moral of the story: Just because there's a picture on the Internet doesn't mean it's correct.

That said, I was forced to motor in that very configuration a few years ago when my steaming light burnt out. I put duct tape over my stern light and illuminated my anchor light during my 30 minute motor into the marina.

 

Here ia a bit of information from Marinebeam about as they say, odd but cleaver Nav light system that is installed by Beneteau on their less then 12 meter sailboats. They also say the system meets the col regs with the all round white light on top of the mast. They have decided to make the lights for the system with the improvement of adding a deck light to the red/ green mast mounted running light.
https://store.marinebeam.com/blog/beneteaus-odd-choice-for-navigation-lights/

 

It would seem that motor sailing the mid mast red or green would be obscured by the sail. And it might obscure the mid mast *steaming* light as well.

I think having nav lights mounted on the pulpit is not bad at all. For one I can tell if they are working because I see some *reflected* light . Additionally they are easier to service for a single hander than going aloft.

You can also get a feel for the direction a sailboat is going by the relationship of the deck mounted nav lights because they are separated. A tricolor loses the relationship and perception of direction.

Legal or not their system would be confusing.

 

Have had occasion to buddy boat with sistership at night. Not unusual night. 1-2 meter waves and moderate wind chop on top of that. Deck lights not visible most of the time. When spreader lights went on indistinguishable from steaming light. When steaming light went on indistinguishable from stern light. No fog but light rain at times. No moon and full cloud cover. Our landfalls where different. I added him as as target on both radar and AIS. He disappeared repetitively on radar, marpa, arpa. He disappeared on AIS much quicker than our usual ~16m.

In current cruising grounds unless it’s an international ship few have AIS. Local vessels of all sizes rarely have radar reflectors and many are wood so are poor targets. There’s usually 5-8’. Those technologies are of little to no help. You use your eyes.

We rarely use our deck lights. Always use our tricolor instead. Exception is calm seas under power. Flash spreader lights if we think another vessel hasn’t seen us and will get close if they don’t answer on vhf. We assume the vessel won’t change course so basically ignore burdened/ stand on and just do what makes sense to avoid getting close.

 

Would suggest the bene system is inadequate. On prior boats have had the deck lights fail or the tricolor. Nice to have belt and suspenders on a boat system. It maybe next to impossible for fix those lights if underway in even moderate conditions.
Would note going to windward under sail deck light may not be visible to one of the boats at all or only rarely. Having only a red and green up front can present difficulties.

 

if someone sees a white light ahead, with no red or green. The first take away should be that you're the Give-Way Vessel.

If you're proceeding through a crowded "anchorage", why wouldn't you also be looking up, as that's where the anchor lights would be.

And, now we've just been told that Bene. is making sailboats with that exact nav. lighting configuration.

If it's a designated Mooring field, you may not see any lights, as they are not required. in either case, I'm @ Idle speed, looking at boats.

My common sense tells me it's not that big a deal.

 

Never trust navigation lights to tell the whole story. Sight; hearing; all available means. Rule 5 gives the list in that order.

First step to determine risk of collision is bearing drift. Is it left; right; steady? Fast or slow changes in bearing? Take a bearing or sight over the compass or point the bow toward a significant light* or well-defined part of the superstructure. (* white mastheads lights are brighter, higher, and should be visible for at least five miles on vessels >12 meters and two miles on vessels <12 meters).

Wait two to three minutes. Repeat (make sure that you shoot the same exact spot as before). If you have time, wait two to three more minutes and take a third bearing. Now, you have three successive bearings (or at least two if you have no time for a third).

Look at the bearings. Do they change to the left, to the right, or are they steady? Are they at least three degrees apart or are they less than three degrees apart (fast vs. slow). Use AIS and/or radar to confirm/verify if you have time. In low visibility, you may need to make an assessment based on electronics alone.

Take action as necessary to avoid collision. Do it early and make it substantial.

 

Reminds of my experience as a pilot, that is airplane pilot. There was a great resistance to mandatory equipment that would allow aircraft to know where other aircraft were in their vicinity. But it was finally required...and it is a good thing.

AIS is relatively inexpensive...it should be mandatory for any vessels over a certain size.

 

Reminds of my experience as a pilot, that is airplane pilot. There was a great resistance to mandatory equipment that would allow aircraft to know where other aircraft were in their vicinity. But it was finally required...and it is a good thing.

AIS is relatively inexpensive...it should be mandatory for any vessels over a certain size.

OK... what size? You mean AIS B or A???