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On line purchasing

3.5K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  sailingdog  
#1 ·
I've been looking for some cockpit drains or scuppers. Going on line, at the usual suspects, I find that the majority of the on-line catalogs do not list much in the way of relavent data, with sailnet being about the worst. P-Yacht was about the best. This brings up a pet peeve of mine. If I just happen to have seen the product, know it's model number, and know it will work for me, shopping for it here and most of the other sites is fine. If I actually want to know if the scupper they're selling is 2" in diameter or a foot in diameter, well, tough luck. I can understand not having pictures of some items, but no description of it's specifications? How do they expect to sell ANYTHING that way? Listing a 2" drain means nothing. 2" what?

It is literally like shopping in the white pages of the telephone book. I want a "Smith". Do I want a "J Smith", a "John Smith", a "John D. Smith", or perhaps my "Smith" is not even listed.

Going to the manufacturer's web-site sometimes helps, or not, but why should one have to do that? If I am trying to sell something, I usually find it helpful to know something about the product-I certainly don't refer the customer to the manufacturer.

Another recent flapdoodle: CS Johnson ran an ad in one of the boating maint. magazines, I think Boat Works. They have a nice mooring buoy hook that I plan on adapting to hook my swing keel with. All they list in the ad is their web-site. Upon going to their web-site, all you find are wholesale houses with their own lame web-sites. I found the hook at Defender, no thanks to CS Johnson, their web-site, or any of their wholesalers web-sites. Now why would you take a full page advert in a glossy do-it-yerselfer and offer no reasonable way to actually find your product?

We're talking about computers here for goodness sake. Why would you go on-line to get LESS information about a product than you can get from a printed catalog or from the label on the product itself? Oh, and the sites with the "product review" are priceless. How do these over-educated buffoons think they are going to get a product review out of a customer if they can't even describe the product to the customer? I hate to say it, but the only one doing a half way decent job is WM and their catalog. You actually get the impression that somebody opened the box and looked at the product. That's their catalog, which you need to refer to from the web-site if you're going to learn anything about what you've found.

As far as I knew, Sailnet was using their store and advertising to pay for this site. How are they keeping the lights on?
 
#7 ·
Sailaway...to your larger point...the state of on-line marine store design is deplorable. The on-going maintenance of such sites is worse and there is no site other than West Marine that begins to provide a decent shopping experience. It is really deplorable since customers can easily tell you what is wrong with a site and point you in the right direction if you have any interest in serving them.
 
#8 ·
defender's and mauriprosailing's websites aren't too bad.
 
#9 ·
"Uh, you can't go by the picture...."

I needed to buy a small Lewmar #6 winch in chrome to match those I had. Several sites we all know had differing pictures of the winch. I called one and was told, "You can't go by the pictures...you have to read the print to see if it's the one you want." Say what? I thought that's what the picture was for, to give me a visual depiction of the item and not some other item! However, shopping on line is still better than driving to the store to discover that the item's not in stock, when the clerk said it was.
 
#11 ·
The Sailnet store seems to be improved recently, and all things being equal, I would prefer to shop there. The problem is that it has been saying "product image coming soon" for many items for some time now. Without a picture the experience won't work for me.

Come on Sailnet...there must be a fortune to be made if you get it right.
 
#13 ·
Even WM's site is good only when you consider that the catalog is basically attached to it.
For those with a catalog, here's a novel idea; just put the catalog on-line.
Another beef: the "search" function. The results obtained from that little item can best be said to vary widely. It is especially illuminating when you know the item is carried by the company and "search" won't find it.(G)

To be honest, it's easier to make up a laundry list, drive an hour to Wolf's Marine, in Benton Harbor, MI and be able to look at the stuff with a competent sales person. The travel time can be justified because nothing seems to eat up time like "convenient on-line shopping".

Camaraderie's comments have confirmed, for me, that the MBAs running these things have never so much as worked in a hardware store. As my grandfather would have said of them, "smart in the classroom, dumb in the bathroom".
 
#14 ·
Unfortunately, too many things about running an online store isn't well understood by the powers that make or break the decisions. Another problem is that in many cases, the on-line stores may not have everything that is available in their pape catalogs...
 
#16 ·
For those with a catalog, here's a novel idea; just put the catalog on-line.

Actually the technology to do that exists as the major stores like IKEA do it already. It is nice if you like catalogs but fails to translate what should be the benefits of the web:
1. No space premium so you can FULLY describe an item.
2. Unlimited potential for product photography...zoom + surround
3. Opportunity to provide customer reviews/ link to magazine reviews etc. like Amazon.
4. Ability to provide live help when required.
5. Ability to provide in stock status, rebates, coupons etc.
6. Ability to provide instant check out/ store shipping info.

...and the list goes on. One of the most revealing things an MBA can do is to "rent" half a dozen customers...put them in a room with PC's and a microphone and assign them to buy something and describe everything they do out loud as they actually try to use the website. It is quite embarassing in action!
Another thing you can easily do is MONITOR the search terms being used on the site. Make sure the most popular terms are getting relevant results...and make sure the "nothing found" results are looked at daily. Key words can be "assigned" to any product to make it show up when that word is entered.
Such simple stuff. Such Bozo execution so often.
 
#18 ·
Hmm a 2" drain is ah 50 mm. Mind you metrics are confusing. Usually internal diameter. Hmm you want to know how long it is - cut a bit off if it is too long or stick a hose on the end if it is too short and you want it to to lead outside the boat. If you don't does it matter? Not sure what you mean how big is it. Length breadth, height?
 
#19 ·
camaraderie said:
For those with a catalog, here's a novel idea; just put the catalog on-line.

Actually the technology to do that exists as the major stores like IKEA do it already. It is nice if you like catalogs but fails to translate what should be the benefits of the web:
1. No space premium so you can FULLY describe an item.
Unfortunately too many companies see no real need to do this. BTW, if you're going to sell an item on-line-put all of the relevant specifications on the damn website. Weight, length, width, depth, power draw, etc. It ain't rocket science.

2. Unlimited potential for product photography...zoom + surround
This requires them to actually do some work... and good photography is expensive.
3. Opportunity to provide customer reviews/ link to magazine reviews etc. like Amazon.
Great idea, but takes a fair bit on the back end to implement. Also, generally requires staff to vet/moderate the reviews.
4. Ability to provide live help when required.
They can't do this in most of their stores, so what makes you think they could do it on-line???
5. Ability to provide in stock status, rebates, coupons etc.
They do this fairly well already. It just isn't really well implemented IMHO.
6. Ability to provide instant check out/ store shipping info.
Unfortunately, the "one-click" shopping is patented, and not by West Marine... so this is a bit tough to do.

Another thing you can easily do is MONITOR the search terms being used on the site. Make sure the most popular terms are getting relevant results...and make sure the "nothing found" results are looked at daily. Key words can be "assigned" to any product to make it show up when that word is entered.
This requires that they have someone who knows what keywords apply to their inventory, which rarely seems to be the case.
Such simple stuff. Such Bozo execution so often.
So very sad, but so very true.
 
#20 ·
I propose someone on Sailnet with a nice sailboat take (google founder) Sergey Brin sailing. Once he gets interested and starts working on his own boat he'll create what we're looking for in about a week.
 
#21 ·
Going back to the subject: On line purchasing;
I have have had good service from Landfall Navigation and Celestaire. I haven't tried this site yet... But there is a strong possibility that I will have just as good service here also...
First; get a boat.
Second; outfit it.
Third: Go Sailing.

And that is the order of life.
 
#22 ·
I have been looking at Thermoelectric coolers and nowhere in any online store can I find the amp draw for any cooler I have looked at. For me this is a large point in determining which and if I want to go this way. I find myself in Sailaway's situation, nice pitcher but will it work for me.
 
#23 ·
I find that I have to research for days before I make any on line purchase.
I will try the individual manufaturers sites and narrow down my decision before ordering anything.

Kennya- have you tried looking at the manufacturer's sites for thermoelectric coolers? Usually you will find much more information there. They probaly even list distributors where you can buy and probaly list the amp draw.
 
#24 ·
kennya-

The Pelletier effect thermoelectric coolers are not all the energy efficient, and most of them are limited in the temperatures that they can cool down to. You'd be better off IMHO getting a small 12VDC refrigerator, like an Engel. They're far more power efficient and can actually freeze stuff.
 
#25 ·
The really ironic part of this is that, when presented with a well laid out site, with all the information one could want, our natural inclination is to think something like, "gee, these guys are professional. They are probably good people to do business with." Similar to the reaction you have when you confer with a knowledgable salesman at a brick and mortar store.
 
#26 ·
Right Sailaway!
And Dawg...some things are a bit of an expense to do but technology requires an up-front investment and then the costs drop do almost nothing compared to running a real store. Each of the things you explained cost too much I did for an F500 retailer that now does over a billion a year on the site AND the site is used by over 1/3 of the customers that buy in the stores. The cost annually is less than just a few stores and the growth remains 2-3x the store growth. Bottom line...it is stupid not to do everything you can to make it easy for the customer to buy.

One other thing...you mentioned the need to moderate customer reviews.
NOPE. You must respect the right of customers to write whatever they want about a product. You can auto filter for profanity...and other reviewers take care of the trolls. The interesting thing is that the retailer learns about the products they sell through this process of feedback and can make adjustments to their line and reduce returns etc. by monitoring what customers are saying about specific products. Mfrs. also get this feedback so it improves things if you just let it happen. Kinda like this board...it is the diversity of opinions that enable newcomers to make good and informed decisions for themselves with no surprises.