As with this, everything is relative. Having recently delivered one over a 600 mile trip, my opinion is that it does but not more than any other relatively flat bottom boat - the fwd section of the hull is quite flat and some pounding is expected. Whether or not you would find it objectionable or disconcerting is more a matter of your perception relative to what you are willing to ignore. My only concern was that the fwd hull section "oil canned" noticeably making the trip more of an ordeal than we would have preferred.

 

My only concern was that the fwd hull section "oil canned" noticeably making the trip more of an ordeal than we would have preferred.

That's awfully interesting. I had not heard that about that model. Would you describe how you discerned that she oil canned? I'm not disputing what you say, I'm just curious how you came to the conclusion.

 

My dad has an 03 that I have alot of experience with. The only time I can ever remember pounding hard was motoring straight into 20 knots of wind in the Chesapeake bay with 3-4 foot swells. I can't remember any other time its pounded hard. For the style of hull that it is I don't think its tendency to pound is excessive.

Its a shoal draft model with in-mast furling. Not a huge fan of the in-mast furling. Although I've never seen it seriously jammed I would definitely say it can be a cranky system at times. I think the sail has possibly been stretched a little out of shape. Also make sure you get one that came with the larger genoa sheet winches. Ours has the upgrade option from the factory and I think handling the genoa with anything less would be difficult.

 

Don't worry with the pounding...maybe they pound a bit more than deeper narrower hull design, but it sure sails better...

It's a sailboat that sails...go for it, don't let it be an issue.

You can buy an Old Shoe that doesn't pound, but doesn't sail either..

And you will end up sailing more time, than pounding..

GO FOR IT

 

I don't know about that. My old wooden shoe will average 7.5 in 10 knots of breeze and run with a similar LOA plastic boat and when the wind is up over 30 knots, she'll run off and hide from them. We averaged 10 knots for a 100 NM trip in 40+ just fine. Granted, she won't run with Giulietta but neither will that 423.

 

The hull bending in and out, sort of like what happens with an old-fashioned oil can when you squeeze it to get the oil out. It sort of "pops" in and out. It happens sometimes on some boats when you have large unsupported hull sections and you are in sporty conditions. The hull works and moves, and pops in and out in those larger unsupported sections, and mimics the movement of those old-fashioned oil can when you squeeze it to get the oil out.

 

I wonder just how many people have ever used a plink-plink style oil can? I have several and still use them occasionally. I always associate the sound with working with my grandfather. I doubt they've been sold in 50 years.

 

Well now that this raises some issues with the 423, what do any of you know about the new Beneteau 40? Does the new hull shape make it less likely to have the pounding and the "oil canning"

 

Nika

What do you want the boat for?? To cross the Ocean?? or to sail coastal??

 

Thanks for the explanation guys.
Learned something new, again.

 

Nika, I wouldn't worry about the hull integrity on either boat, assuming you're sailing mostly coastal. Frankly, many of these boats have crossed oceans, but if you were looking to buy a boat to do serious offshore work to remote locations, I probably would consider something different. But from what you've posted, either the 423 or the 40 would suit you just fine.

And I would ignore any advice that you might get from Giu. He's nothing but a hairy artist.

 

And I would ignore any advice that you might get from Giu. He's nothing but a hairy artist.

Why do you say that?? I am actually telling him to go for it....

 

You guys obviously have never sailed a 470.....

 

K1,

Did your boat list to stbd?

Did your stern sit slightly below waterline with the stern "Rub-rail" sitting slightly in the water?

Did water sit iddly on the transom growing a science experiment?

Every, without exception, 423 that I have seen has these problems. Many people have corrected for them by artifically adding weight to port or over loading to port. But for the stern sitting in the water, I doubt there is a fix. It would be a hazard when boarding the boat from the ladder if barnacles were growing thre. You certainly cannot paint it with bottom paint.

Sorry, but I look at things from a live aboard point of view and I can see where that would be an issue.

I am not trying to start a fight. I like Bene's. I have said that many times on this forum. I am one of the very few production boats supporters. But the 423's I have been on and seen left me shaking my head. I will shoot pics if you want them - though I think these issues are pretty well publicized by those that I have spoken to.

Buy a different Bene. If you like the performance of the 423, look at the Catalina 400 or 470. I am sure Jeuneau has a comparable model... but I hate those finger breakers they claim are handholds on some of their newer models. If performance is high on your list, look at a first series. But that 423 just leaves me shaking my head.

Why would anyone buy a boat that lists right out of the box?

Take my comments as my personal opinions only, please. They are only my opinions. I like Benes... just not that one.

- CD

 

CD,

Thanks for our honesty.

Do you have any knowledge of how the new Beneteau 40 measures up? We are thinking about the new 40 not the new 43 as it would be out of our price range, but I am interested in what you may know of the new 40 design relative to the points you brought up.

 

CD,

Thanks for our honesty.

Do you have any knowledge of how the new Beneteau 40 measures up? We are thinking about the new 40 not the new 43 as it would be out of our price range, but I am interested in what you may know of the new 40 design relative to the points you brought up.

No, sorry. Others may know that boat better. I have no first hand knowledge of that boat.

Brian

 

Blue Water Sailing Magazine Review

Nika, you should go to Blue Water Sailing's website (www.bwsailing.com), and hit the link for boat reviews. You'll find one on the 423. It's not the most in-depth review I've ever read, but there is at least some information on the boat, and it gives you George Day's opinion.

 

Thanks to everyone for the really informative posts. I had a retired surveyor friend read through these to help me sort them out. Here's his take on it all.

Regarding the hull slamming and oil canning: All boats slam to some extent when pounding to windward in waves, and whether one pounds worse than another is a very subjective matter. Can't really be measured. Of course, the larger boats won't jump around as much as the smaller ones (you know, mass and inertia and all of that), plus when you're getting spray in your face you build up a strong negative psycholgical feeling. Naval architects can usually evaluate the pounding propensity of one forebody shape over another, but almost all hull shapes are a compromise of sorts to meet the need for interior space and accomodations. High speed power boats have deep vee-bottoms to minimize the pounding, at the cost of added HP requirements. Even the America's Cup boats, long and skinny, have to accept some pounding and discomfort in trade for overall speed in differing conditions. Most boat builders are always experimenting with hull designs, but inevitably reduce the analysis to a "seat of the pants" determination. And rest assured that every manufacturer will claim that this new design is much better.

On oil canning, many owners mistake some deck flexibility for oil canning, when in reality they're describing a deck problem from delamination, sometimes calling it a trampoline in bad cases. Also, in a seaway, many lightly built boats will flex noticeably, and this, too, could be called oil canning by an untrained person. That kind of flexing almost always causes hairline crazing or cracks in the surfaces of gelcoat, particularly in the "sharp" corners or where the molded shape changes greatly. The term "oil canning" originated when motor oil was sold in quart cans where the top could be easily popped in and would pop out when you took your finger off. Sort of a pucker. And similar to what you'd see on a can of food that has gone bad, where the top has a slight dome that you can pucker.

 

Thanks to everyone for the really informative posts. I had a retired surveyor friend read through these to help me sort them out. Here's his take on it all.

On oil canning, many owners mistake some deck flexibility for oil canning, when in reality they're describing a deck problem from delamination, sometimes calling it a trampoline in bad cases. Also, in a seaway, many lightly built boats will flex noticeably, and this, too, could be called oil canning by an untrained person. That kind of flexing almost always causes hairline crazing or cracks in the surfaces of gelcoat, particularly in the "sharp" corners or where the molded shape changes greatly. The term "oil canning" originated when motor oil was sold in quart cans where the top could be easily popped in and would pop out when you took your finger off. Sort of a pucker. And similar to what you'd see on a can of food that has gone bad, where the top has a slight dome that you can pucker.

Feel free to listen to some surveyor who wasn't there or from the consensus of a group of knowledgeable sailors who were and know the what "deck flexing" is - this has absolutely nothing to do with the issue here and most surveyors should be able to tell the difference...

Regarding the flat hull and pounding, I said both were relative terms - this boat has/does both compared to similar sized and priced competitors - again, your choice.

 

Always a trade off it seems. I guess we shall have to live with it if we want light wind performance and the ease of sailing of these modern sailboats.

thanks

 

Nika,

If you're strictly planning to do coastal cruising/vacation sailing, where your exposure to pounding conditions can be limited by ducking in for cover, it is a very reasonable trade-off to make.

On the other hand, if you're talking about crossing oceans with your family, you should consider the effect on your long-term cruising plans of a 3-4 day beat to weather in a nasty seaway. It's challenging enough in a boat whose design minimizes pounding, but it can be punishing in a boat that has traded or compromised this design attribute for other advantages.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. If we were going to do anything else other than coastal cruising I'd go for a heavier boat with a deeper keel, too. For what we have time to do, which is sail over to Bock or Newport and for weekend trips to Greenport I think we'll do fine with the Beneteaus.

thanks for your insight.

 

Absolutely. Great boat for how you plan to use it. I'd put it on my short-list too.

We have a member, tomaz_423, who owns one and he'd probably be a good resource if you haven't come across him yet.

 

I've owned our 423 for 3 years now and sailed it up and down the Chesapeake Bay. At the mouth of the Potomac in about 30+ kts of wind we were seeing 4ft+ waves with a short period and the boat sailed beautifully, better than any other I've sailed. It is also an amazingly strong boat with stiffeners throughout and fiberglass that is solid. I can't imagine "oil canning", the effect of bending a plate and it "popping" back (with a loud sound) to its original shape when the load is released, ever occurring on this hull. It is a great boat and Beneteau did a great job designing it. Hearsay is not a design criteria, but if it can be proven I'd love the data be posted so all can know. Until then, it sounds like nonsense to this kid.

 

Do you realize that this thread is just about 10 yrs old and the poster you are referring to who made the oil canning statement hasn't logged in for over 6 years...

Just saying this as you might not get the reply you are hoping for.