no might actually balance it more. you plan on putting a bigger or more powerfull motor in? bigger fuel tank? sailboat are made to sail and not to motor 100% of the time.

 

No, there's no reason why you can't remove the mast and just motor. Plenty of people transport sailboats in that manner.

However, sailboats are designed to sail. If all I wanted was to motor, I'd personally look at a trawler. You'll get a lot more comfortable of a boat if you get one that is designed to be motored.

 

Of course, a sailboat is very unlikely to have as much internal volume and room for stores as a power boat of the same length, and sawing off the mast will deprive the boat of the ability to steady its motion via the sails or to save money by sailing.
-- And, cruising sailboats of that size usually have much more of a displacement hull design than powerboats and don't have room to install a much bigger engine, so a mast-less traditional sailboat would become a slow powerboat without the option of having a big engine to get out of trouble.
-- Also, you'd probably be paying to motor around with a big heavy lead or iron keel that isn't doing much to earn its deep, and which would restrict you from entering shallow water. (You could maybe saw off and sell a lead keel for good money, but then your boat would be even less stable.)
-- And powerboaters and sailors would probably both be suspicious of a boat that doesn't know which side it's on.
But, as "they" say, your sea miles may vary.

PS: Better than sawing off the mast would be saving it on land somewhere safe, so as to preserve a sailing option as well as the boat's resale value, or perhaps selling it -- the mast is worth a lot more as a mast than as some sort of hokey antenna support or whatever.

 

I'm curious, why would you want a sailboat to motor with? Not that there is anything wrong it but it is somewhat counter-intuitive.

Brad
s/v KIVALO

 

A 35' sailboat with a Beta 16 diesel like and old C&C 35 I gets in the 14 MPG range in real life as i have been racing on one the last 5 years and we only keep a 10 gallon fuel tank

That being said there is NOTHING more rocky and uncomfortable than a sailboat without sails

 

I read a piece on Fuel mileage Trawler v Sailboat, same trip same time of the year, in the End the Trawler spent 900% more then the Sailboat on Fuel and got the same mileage.

You might find a motor-sailor that you can drop the mast from and install a 16' 4x4 as your antenna mount, Also your radar reflector, Steaming Light, Anchor Light ,cross bar for flags and Deck lights and it will be easy to drop if you need to get under something very low. Then when you get back you can put the mast back on and sell it .

Best of luck on your Trip, it is a Trip i would love to make myself. Fair Winds

 

I read a piece on Fuel mileage Trawler v Sailboat, same trip same time of the year, in the End the Trawler spent 900% more then the Sailboat on Fuel and got the same mileage.

I think you're right that in general most any trawler is going to be less fuel efficient than a sailboat. But I am sure that if you get creative in looking around, you can find a little trawler that does remarkably well on fuel. And any trawler is going to be so much more comfortable and easier to motor full time than a sailboat.

For example, quick google search came up with this nifty looking 21 foot trawler.

In the 31 days, we have traveled 3,977 miles and used 3,184 liters of fuel [841 gallons, or 4.7 miles per gallon]," says Kinard, who spoke to Soundings after arriving in France. "For this kind of navigation, this went exactly as I planned.

Tiny trawler crosses Atlantic

 

If you're serious, and I have my doubts. I would recommend that even though you don't want to sail, you should leave the mast on the boat. If you are planning on passing under bridges that don't open, it would be possible and certainly more sensible to set up the mast to lower when you need to.

You don't have to sail it, but leave the mast on the boat. It will roll your guts out if you remove the spar.

 

Buy a small trawler.. that's what it's designed to do. Sailboats (at least keelboats) without their rigs tend to be overly stable and will have a snappy, uncomfortable motion due to the loss of the inertia of the rig itself, never mind the stabilizing effect of the sails.

A small 'chugger' will have more volume, likely, and would be being used as intended.

 

I'd get a sail boat that was small enough to lower and raise the mast by myself to not worry about the bridges, OR, as mentioned, a trawler style, possibly a pilot house motor sailor! I'd probably go with a trawler before a MS myself.

marty

 

Removing the mast will increase rolling. The mast acts like a pendulum and decreases rolling. either keep the mast or buy a motor yacht.

A sailing yacht without a mast is not a good vision for the viewers also.

 

A good many people have been throwing out the alternative of a trawler instead of a mastless sailboat and if you are to go that route I do have a few words of caution.

So sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip, That started from a tropic port, aboard a tiny ship. The mate was a mighty sailin' man, the Skipper brave and sure. Five passengers set sail that day for a three hour tour...a three hour tour. The weather started getting rough, the tiny ship was tossed. If not for the courage of the fearless crew the trawler would be lost.

So you see, if you are going to get a trawler instead you will also be required to get a fearless crew to ensure your safety thus making the trawler choice very expensive. I would opt out for the smaller sailboat with a stepable mast instead.

 

All good points above that I won't repeat. I will add that the mast is a pricey item and destroying it will seriously devalue the boat. Do you plan to flush that money down the drain? You will not be able to sell a sailboat without a mast, as you are the one and only I've ever heard of being interested in one. Replacing it could be a seriously higher percentage of the boat's value than you might think.

 

Excellent point, as an example say you have a 25/26ft boat either a Columbia or a Pearson. If you are lucky you will be able to find a replacement mast for $3000. In some cases that will be what you spent on the boat in the first place. Get a bigger boat and the price goes up drastically.

 

"Sailboat without a mast" is not a 'Sailboat'

 

I love posts like these. It's akin to asking "I'm thinking of buying a hammer, and using it to install wood screws, what do you all think of this?"

Dude, buy the proper tool for your task instead of trying to (poorly) adapt the wrong tool to your intended task. Sailboats with their masts, often motor uncomfortably. I can't imagine doing a long trip without the mast.

 

Absolutely...

In addition, it's a pity these forums don't have some sort of software to prevent the initiation of such discussions without including at least some hint of the sort of BUDGET the poster has in mind... (grin) Unbelievable, how consistently these sort of "Which boat?" inquiries omit the single most important consideration in soliciting recommendations from strangers...

If I was looking to do the Great Loop on the cheap, I'd have a look at something like this Albin 27... Nice little boat, with a great engine for such a trip...

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...boat_id=2500392&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1852&url=

 

Ditto what Bubblehead just said. Buying a sailboat to motor around with really does not make any sense at all.

 

Have seen a lot of people happily drop the stick to cruise the canals in Ontario. My slip neighbours just took their Bayfield 25 from Simcoe to Georgian Bay (they did bring the stick with).

But I have seen sailboats cruising the Rideau Canal without the stick - guess they left it at home.

 

I'm not sure what the benefit the OP sees in a sailboat over a power boat? If it's just cheap transportation, get an under powered power boat. Throw a 12 hp yanmar in it or something.

 

In fairness, the OP asked a very narrow question which was overlooked by most, who just critiqued the overall idea (including me, but after giving my opinion on the question). He wasn't looking for feedback on "which boat"-- only

Would removing the mast as described have any ill effects on the vessel?

Of course, nothing wrong with giving advice beyond that which is solicited. It's often helpful.

 

In fairness, the OP asked a very narrow question which was overlooked by most, who just critiqued the overall idea (including me, but after giving my opinion on the question). He wasn't looking for feedback on "which boat"-- only

Of course, nothing wrong with giving advice beyond that which is solicited. It's often helpful.

I did address his specific question- I said that the boat would ride uncomfortably. Removing most of the mast would harm the riding capabilities of the boat. That's why I suggested that he buy the proper tool for the job.

 

Would removing the mast as described have any ill effects on the vessel?? Thanks Al.

Al,

I'll take a stab at giving a concise response:

- If you mean "will removal of the rig permanently damage the boat," then no.
- If you mean "will removal of the rig negatively effect it's seaworthiness," then yes.
- If you mean "will removal negatively effect the boat's value," it certainly will.

The first and third bullets above are pretty much self explanatory.

The middle one's the kicker.

A well designed sailboat's all about bringing opposing forces into balance. Take part of that design away, and the resulting imbalance will require you to make many compromises. I can tell you from personal experience that you'll find a rig-less keel boat to be a handful in even moderate conditions. And don't think that just because you are going to be in near-shore or inland waters you will be immune -- any large body of water with sufficient fetch will develop sea states that need to be respected.

 

Has anyone actually experienced being aboard a sailboat with no mast? I've moved several sailboats between harbors for winter storage without masts, and the boats were all more stable without a mast. I think many people are assuming a sailboat without a mast behaves the same as a sailboat without any sails up and it's completely different. But this is all based on personal and a rather limited selection, but wide ranging type of boats (from a 27' sloop to a 58' hermaphrodite brig).

 

Trk,

Yes. I've done it twice: Once through the Erie Canal (from Catskill, NY to Tonawanda, NY); and once from Holland, MI to Mobile, AL. Both times, the mast was stowed horizontally above deck.

My initial thought was that with our 8800# of ballast in the keel, we'd be more stable; this was not the case.

In dead flat conditions, it's quite an enjoyable ride.

However, once the usual problems (pb wakes, chop, quartering or abeam seas, etc) come up then the boat's motion gets dicey.

As counter intuitive as it sounds, having the weight aloft really helps dampen the roll.

 

My guess is that the OP asked after having searched around some great loop sites. This being the one that stood out to me.

Choosing your Great Loop boat.

I would make the assumption he wants to take his time, enjoy the sights, and motor when there is nice weather, and think the answers should come from that viewpoint.

 

My guess is that the OP asked after having searched around some great loop sites. This being the one that stood out to me.

Choosing your Great Loop boat.

Hmmm, I certainly hope no one considering doing the Loop in a cruising sailboat is taking these numbers from that link seriously:

What you may not know is that the design of the sailboat's displacement hull makes it the very most economical vessel on the water. Think about it!

Sailboats are designed to move easily through the water in the slightest breeze. As a result, it requires a very minimum amount of horse power to move these vessels through the water.

For example:

A 32' to 36' (live a-board size) Sailboat might be rated for a 10 to 25hp engine and have a 10 mph fuel burn rate of 0.4 to 0.8 gallons per hour.

This guy is dreaming...

 

There are all kinds of concessions made in sailboats to make them sailboats that will sail well that are unnecessary in a power boat. Many of those concessions make for a kind of crappy boat, unless you're sailing. Narrow sterns, less cabin for less windage, small ports in case you get rolled, a cockpit in the back instead of a nice deck to fish from, and many others that I'm too tired to list. I think a powerboat makes a better powerboat.
It's doable, sure, but you're making compromises in comfort to gain nothing. Plus you'll have to answer a million dumb questions.

 

I have been in many MacGregors and under power or anchored off (without sails even being on the boat, mast removed as well) the boat operates just like a powerboat. I think some of the comments are made by purists of sailing which is okay but todays MacGregors can and do work perfectly under sail and pulling a skier with out board motor. So I kinda gotta take a lot of the discontent with a cup of salt.

 

There are PLENTY of older SMALL diesel powered Albin Trawlers like the 24' aft cabin that have huge room for the size and sip fuel

 

Yes. The Albin 25 is what you want. Check it out here:
http://www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/documents/Albin-Manual.pdf

Oh, as an aside, in addition to being the best boat choice for what you want to do, there is a GREAT technical discussion about roll and comfort and where the weight is on page 5-6 of the above document. They recommend adding weight HIGHER UP to create a more comfortable motion and the physics behind why is explained well. It addresses the discussion in this thread nicely and is worth a read I think.

Medsailor

 

Yeah that guy is full of it. A sailboat is designed to slip through the water CARRYING THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF BALLAST UNDER THE WATER TO COUNTERBALANCE THE FORCE ON THE SAILS! Oh, and then there's the dragging a keel around under the water so you don't go sideways part too. All that stuff under the water creates drag. We all know that.
That's why hydrofoils are faster, almost nothing in the water.

 

I had to take the mast out of my wooden boat because of extensive rot/wood damage necessitating the removal of the keel as well.

Knothead is right. It will roll in an AWFUL motion that you will hate if you take the mast out. The hull shape of sailboats more resemble a canoe or kayak than a barge. Powerboats roll more slowly (read more comfortably) than sailboat hulls. The only thing that makes the motion of the sailboat roll comfortable is the weight of the mast far from the center of the roll.

Every seen ice skaters do spins? If they bring their arms close they spin quickly, if they spread them out they spin slowly. Same with your mast. If you remove that weight then all the weight in the boat is close to the center of the roll and every roll from every wave/wake will be head-snappingly fast. I've tried it both ways in the same boat. You will hate it.

On the other hand, if you leave the stick in place life will be more comfortable, you have the option of sailing if you choose, and your boat will retain resale value.

MedSailor

 

That's like trying to buy a Pinto and use it as a Jeep.

Just ain't gonna work, and enough people have told you why. The more frightening question should be how you're about to undertake a great and expensive adventure without doing the most basic groundwork to understand what you are getting into.

"Buy a cheap trawler" also does not mean "buy an old wood boat from the 1940's" because that can be a disaster too. Really, do some research, and if you don't do a lot of research, try to understand that the reason people don't do unconventional things (like butcher a sailboat) is because there usually are some damn good reasons for doing things the conventional way. Read up.