Single handed sailing, not going very far, beach the boat…. sounds like a good job for a cat rigged ComPac, with a small cuddy cabin, just enough for a porta potty, cooler and place to get out of the rain. Easily trailered for winter storage, or to take elsewhere.

 

^^ what he said.

Not just ComPac there are others, which cost little used. We have some trailer sailors here, but they're probably sailing, so be patient.

I have no problem with your plan, it makes perfect sense.

 

Sailing the Delaware is surely doable it is just not the best experience. Shoals, currents, winds, shipping all tend to make it a bit more challenging.

For a small boat doing short day trips it probably does not matter much.

Just pay attention to the weather and tidal currents. There is a good site for Delaware Bay Operational Forecast.

OFS Map Plots

tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov

 

I guess wind against tide is the thing to watch out for. I hear it can get nasty.

 

I sailed through the Delaware Bay once. I would rather not do it again.

Here is an entire thread about other's perception of those waters; https://www.sailnet.com/threads/delaware-bay.338715/

 

I read that piece a few weeks ago and that was one of the reasons I was thinking I may be crazy to think about it.

 

Sail the waters you have. If that's Delaware Bay, then that's what you sail. Ditto sailing Florida's wide-but-shallow river mouths- use the right boat.

And you size and plan accordingly. A small trailer sailer would be ideal; learning the tides, shoals, and currents like anywhere else will come with time, and some frustration, but like any waters once experience is gained they become, at worst, annoyances. Personally, I love that type of environment and that's why we kept our 3'10" draft C30TR for decades. @Arcb has a smaller boat than that and he sails all sorts of waters we can't.

 

I used to sail with a club out of New Castle DE. While technically still the river all the issues mentioned already are the same. Wind against current, 2 kt current at times, mud flats, etc. We had Flying Scots and Thistles, so essentially day sailors powered by sail and oar! Even with a small centerboard I have run aground on the NJ side by Pennsville. We did at one point have a small Beneteau, a 21 I believe at the club. So, what you suggest is very doable. A day sail to Lewes from your location would be a nice trip.

 

I have been to Fortescue many times. The approach is much better now that the channel has been dredged, but I would still keep an eye on the depth sounder at low tide. This is my favourite place to sail and I am envious of you having a place there. Sail to the lights in the bay, or between egg island flats and Cape May west coast. Take a long sail accross the bay to Lewes. Take a kayak or john boat through the salt march channels, Explore the Glades wilderness... The waves building from wind against current don't last long as do the occasional pop up thunderstorm.

 

I am very lucky to have found Fortescue, it is a ways off the beaten path, I have explore with my kayaks a fair amount but there is still much to explore. Feel free to stop by for a beer when your in the neighborhood, I would love to get out on a SB on the bay.

 

Thank you all for chiming in, this is encouraging to hear I am not crazy . So I can continue my potential sailboat search in my head and on FB. I am hoping in my head of course to have a SB that I can sleep on now and than , which seems doable with a Cat 22 and def a Mac, is there any very shallow swing keel boats this group would suggest, I am not looking for a project bait or a free boat, I would prefer one that someone has kept up with the maintenance accordingly. I understand the price will reflect that. I assume a budget of 10K max but would prefer under that and I have no issue buying on the offseason.

 

Cat 22 and def a Mac, is there any very shallow swing keel boats this group would suggest, I am not looking for a project bait or a free boat, I would prefer one that someone has kept up with the maintenance accordingly. I understand the price will reflect that. I assume a budget of 10K max but would prefer under that and I have no issue buying on the offseason.

Check out West Wight Potters. 15' sleeps two 19' sleeps 4, They have a dagger board rather than a swing. I've sailed mine in shallow Texas waters. In shallow water I raise the dagger, and sail or motor off.

A West Wight in Texas there are many, you should be able to find one close to you.

 

When looking for a bot I might suggest checking out marinas and bot yards. They usually have a few bots hanging around they would rather be dine with. I am pretty sure there are a few at the Delaware City Marina. And maybe also in Salem and Greenwich in the Cohanse. Not to mention Cape May.

If nothing else you will become more familiar with what is available.

And just keep your eyes and ears open. I knew a guy who gave away a perfectly decent 35’ Southern Cross.

 

Sounds like good advice , thanks . My local marina is sail boat free but the others you mentioned are not to far away.

 

Maybe smaller than what you want, but the ODay (Stuart) Mariner is a 19ft trailer sailer "cruiser" that fits well within your budget (good examples go for $4k). Fully retracting cast iron centerboard (ODay) or inside ballast with fully retracting lighter centerboard (Stuart) draw 10" board up. With a little organization and prep, considered a good boat for single handed day sailing/light cruising. Major stock drawback is lack of headroom and ventilation in cabin (ventilation is fixable).

Class racing held on Delaware, national championships in New Jersey. Class Rendezvous in Connecticut. I'm doing 1-2 night overnight cruises on Albemarle Sound, along with 2 trips to Connecticut to participate in Rendezvous.

For lots more information see Mariner Class Association at https://usmariner.org/

Fred W
1989 Stuart Mariner #4133 Sweet P
Albemarle Sound, NC

 

Unlike many places you could sail your boat, you know your charts will be fairly accurate.

 

I’m not sure I’d be comfortable beaching a swing keel. Some do not fully retract, so you could put weight on the pivot that wasn’t intended. If it does fully retract into the trunk, you’d also not want to pack sand or mud up there.

 

I have 4ft draft fixed keel and apart from touch and go crunching at Fortescue Creek entance at low tide before dredging and a few oyster reefs on Egg Island Flats have never run aground in that area. Off Fortescue beach at low tide it is waist deep (3ft) to about 300ft and about waist deep to 50 ft at high tide. Most of the Flats are 6 to 7ft at low tide. The charts are accurate and Egg Island Flats has not changed much since the Dutch charted them in the 1600's.

 

Good to know I assume that would open up some more Sb to the list. Hope to see you on the bay. and if you want to take on a passenger let me know.

 

OK since you have all been so kind to chime in, how much HP would I want on an outboard? I have seen some boats for sale w 5 HP , I was thinking 9.9 hp but not really sure if that would be over kill in the Delaware Bay. Not looking for speed but I also want something that would work in the to me at least rough waters of the Bay. TIA

 

That was one of the reasons a old Mac 26 was on my short list, I thought their design lent itself to being beached.

 

If you are in Fortescue marina more HP is better than less. Miss Fortescue and the other charter boats stay at no wake speed until past the no wake marker but many others do not, an underpowerd boat will get tossed around. Once out in the bay it really does not matter you will ride out any rough condition not out race them. My 4ft draft with 1,000 lbs of lead on a 20 ft boat is the best defence against rough/confused conditions.

 

If the boat is small enough and you have a vehicle with enough towing capacity, hauling it to Barnegat Bay or the Chessie for a sailing vacation would be possible.

 

I really do not have a proper tow vehicle, maybe 3000 lbs tow rating and I really doubt I would go to Barnegat or Chess when I have water right in my backyard. It would take too much time to get it somewhere else. Maybe I am wrong but if that is the case it would be a much bigger investment than I am willing to make at this time money wise and time wise.

 

Seth

Perhaps the most important thing to understand is that no single boat in the size and price range can do it all. You implied beachability and trailerability (which go hand in hand) but now are talking about a heavy 4ft draft boat (not beachable, not easily trailered) for its sea keeping and gentler ride.

My preference is not needing a dinghy to get into the beach or shallows, and easy launching/retrieval at shallow ramps so I can go lots of places besides my home waters. Note I said "my preferences". You have to decide what your preferences and priorities are because a less than 23ft boat isn't going to do everything well.

The cat boats (Compac and others like the Bay Hen) offer very simple rigging at the ramp and good stability. They can be a handful if the wind pipes up and you didn't reef in time. CB/keel configuration varies from boat to boat, so beachability is going to vary.

Most of the swing keel sloops are compromises. How far the swing keel retracts affects beachability, trailerability, and the cabin/cockpit configuration. Also, rudder configuration plays a role here. A fixed rudder that sticks down further than the retracted keel is going to get damaged. If beachability is important a kick-up rudder is needed, too.

The higher a boat sits up on the trailer, the more difficult it is to launch at shallow ramps (and access for maintenance and ramp rigging while on the trailer).

Again, your preferences and priorities are key. In the end, my choice was driven by boat lift constraints and budget. The Mariner was about the only under $10K all-in that was under the 1500lb, 18" draft, 8" keel stub limits of my boat lift. It has proven to be a much faster and more versatile boat then I expected. Drawbacks are that it takes a while to rig at the ramp (especially single handed), and the cabin has less headroom than I would like. Pluses are a big cockpit, stability, speed, and very easy to launch/retrieve at the launch ramp.

Fred W

 

Fred,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, you are right no boat , at least in my price range can do it all. They bay is very shallow on my side and that is where I expect to do most of my sailing, so the beaching of a SB I think would be a plus. I do not see me trailing this mythical boat of mine at all, one I have a marina 1/2 mile from my home where i could get a slip at a reasonable cost, 2 I have a station wagon with a 3000 lb tow rating and that is probably pushing it, there are plenty of folks I could hire or would do me a favor and pull my boat out once a year to store it on the hard , and put it back in the next spring. I was not talking about a 4 foot fixed keel I think some suggested it. In my very very limited research I thing a swing keel is my best option for the shallow waters I plan on being in, many a wing keel bc as I understand them , less maintenance vs SK but limits me in how close I can get to land. But I really could be wrong on the swing keel. All I know for sure is where I plan to sail is shallow so I have to keep that top of mind for my search, I want a cabin that has some room and could perhaps be slept on once a month , but to be honest not sure if that is a necessary until I spend a night on and see how rough the Delaware is . That is a want , much like being able to beach the boat.

 

Delaware Bay is the second most dangerous body of water in the USA after Lake Erie.
Why?
Because of huge freighter traffic that can't maneuver out of the channel and the pilot's visibility is restricted close in,
and the topography of the bottom. Offshore at an 80-foot depth, the wave height might be 3-5 feet. once the wave reaches a shallow depth like 10 feet (close to Cape May) that wave gets really big and dangerous. The entrance to the bay is like a funnel, Be careful.
Dick

 

A couple few thoughts here.
-I don't really know Delaware Bay very well. I mostly know it from the beaches at Cape May, Lewes, and Rehoboth, the Cape May Ferry and a single daysail out of Cape May. I have seen it dead calm with slight (6"-1 foot) residual swell off the Atlantic and I have seen it with a 6-8 foot breaking chop that made the motion on the ferry noticeably uncomfortable.
I have also been surprised by the parade of ships coming and going from the river. (There are a slew of ships and tugs on the Chesapeake too, but not as many as seem to come and go on the Delaware. On the other hand, those ships are confined to a narrow channel so you really need to pay closest attention when approaching the channel.)
-In terms of small swing keel boats, I have a fair amount of experience with Macs, Ventures, and Catalina 22's. I would strongly recommend that you drop the Mac's and Ventures from your list. The build quality on these boats was quite spotty, and compared to other options out there, their sailing abilities in both light air and heavy air are not as good as some of the other options that are available for similar prices. In the conditions at both end of the wind range that Delaware Bay can dish out, the Mac's and Ventures would be a pretty poor choice.
-Build quality on the Catalina 22's seems to be noticeably better. The sailing capabilities also tend to be better than the Mac's and Ventures as well. But these are an older design and yacht design has improved enormously in the 55 years since the hull and rig of the Catalina 22 was first penned.
-I suggest that Beneteau has done a much better job in developing higher quality small swing keel boats than either of those two option. To begin, the Beneteau swing keel boats have been typically designed by world class yacht design firms with a focus on producing boats that sail well in a broad range of conditions. I have been amazed at how refined these small boats really are as compared to earlier swing keel boats from the 1970's and 1980's. My impression is that the build quality of these boats seem to be several steps up from either the Mac's, Ventures, or Catalina 22's. The boat that I have the most time on and was most impressed with is the First 235 SK. Other good choices within the Beneteau line-up would include the First 210, and First 211. (Information on older Beneteau models can be found here Sailing Yacht Heritage | BENETEAU)
- Recently, I have been taking people with disabilities and children from under priveleged communities out sailing with CRAB (Chesapeake Regional Accessible Boating) on Beneteau First 22A's. (The A is for accessibility) These are a more modern design. I have found them to be very nice boats that sail well and seem to be quite rugged. ( I believe that there is a First 22 with a smaller cockpit and more accommodations, First 22 | BENETEAU.)
-If performance is your thing, then I would try to find a something like a Santana 23 D, Tripp 26, or Beneteau First Class 8.

Jeff

 

A couple few thoughts here.
-I don't really know Delaware Bay very well. I mostly know it from the beaches at Cape May, Lewes, and Rehoboth, the Cape May Ferry and a single daysail out of Cape May. I have seen it dead calm with slight (6"-1 foot) residual swell off the Atlantic and I have seen it with a 6-8 foot breaking chop that made the motion on the ferry noticeably uncomfortable.
I have also been surprised by the parade of ships coming and going from the river. (There are a slew of ships and tugs on the Chesapeake too, but not as many as seem to come and go on the Delaware. On the other hand, those ships are confined to a narrow channel so you really need to pay closest attention when approaching the channel.)
-In terms of small swing keel boats, I have a fair amount of experience with Macs, Ventures, and Catalina 22's. I would strongly recommend that you drop the Mac's and Ventures from your list. The build quality on these boats was quite spotty, and compared to other options out there, their sailing abilities in both light air and heavy air are not as good as some of the other options that are available for similar prices. In the conditions at both end of the wind range that Delaware Bay can dish out, the Mac's and Ventures would be a pretty poor choice.
-Build quality on the Catalina 22's seems to be noticeably better. The sailing capabilities also tend to be better than the Mac's and Ventures as well. But these are an older design and yacht design has improved enormously in the 55 years since the hull and rig of the Catalina 22 was first penned.
-I suggest that Beneteau has done a much better job in developing higher quality small swing keel boats than either of those two option. To begin, the Beneteau swing keel boats have been typically designed by world class yacht design firms with a focus on producing boats that sail well in a broad range of conditions. I have been amazed at how refined these small boats really are as compared to earlier swing keel boats from the 1970's and 1980's. My impression is that the build quality of these boats seem to be several steps up from either the Mac's, Ventures, or Catalina 22's. The boat that I have the most time on and was most impressed with is the First 235 SK. Other good choices within the Beneteau line-up would include the First 210, and First 211. (Information on older Beneteau models can be found here Sailing Yacht Heritage | ç
)
- Recently, I have been taking people with disabilities and children from under priveleged communities out sailing with CRAB (Chesapeake Regional Accessible Boating) on Beneteau First 22A's. (The A is for accessibility) These are a more modern design. I have found them to be very nice boats that sail well and seem to be quite rugged. ( I believe that there is a First 22 with a smaller cockpit and more accommodations, First 22 | BENETEAU.)
-If performance is your thing, then I would try to find a something like a Santana 23 D, Tripp 26, or Beneteau First Class 7.

Jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for the reply, This is what I am hoping for , season folks offering suggestions , and so far this thread has offer me that. I do not thing performance is high on my list, I will not be racing this boat so it just easy cruising. Thanks for your view on the Macs I understand they have a their fans and their detractors , but your insight in having experience with them and a rough idea of where I would be sailing adds to your insight. Hopefully with everyones help I can find the right boat for where I plan on sailing, I will take a look and see if a Beneteau is in my price range.

 

In the 50s our family cruised a 1937 26' Matthews motor sailer, 4' draft, all along Jersey coast, Delaware and Cheasapeake Bay. No depth sounder other than a lead line, charts, no radio for weather forecasts or communication and a wrist watch. And we had a blast ! Myself and 2 brothers still active sailors on both coasts. Use your head and know the basics.

 

Hopefully that will not happen, I hope to learn a bunch here and if possible hitch a ride on some boats to learn more and see a bunch of boats, I will have to travel for that last part I think but that's the plan. Thanks

 

I may have an O'Day 22 up the river a ways that you could have for a really good price. it only draws 2 feet, so if you ever do stuff it in the sand, you can just get out and push it off. Ask how I know.

 

I thought I replied earlier to the post but I do not see it here , so here goes, do not know much about todays would love some more info where are you up the river?

 

If you do get this boat and relocate by water, this fall or next spring;

Day 1 with ebb current Tacony-Palmyra Bridge to Essington PA (transient slip at Anchorage Marina) about 6 hours.
Day 2 with ebb current Essington PA to Delaware City DE (transient slip at Delaware City Marina) about 5 hours
Day 3 with ebb current Delaware City to Fortescue NJ, about 7 hours

If you get a favorable breeze at Essington and can get past the Salem Powerplant before the flood current, it is possible to moter sail from Essington to Fortescue against the current after Salem in one long day, at least 10 hours but probably 14. The current off Salem is brutal, I have been stuck motoring against the current without forward progress for 90 minutes then making forward progress at 1 to 2 knots until I got to Cohansey Creek. I enjoyed every minute even the stationary ones.