Here I was all mad that I bought the Sensibulb a couple of days before they came out with the "new and improved" version... thanks CD.

 

40 bucks seems a bit pricey for LED bulbs. I'm in the middle of changing virtually everything on the boat to LED, including reading lights, overhead lights and deck and nav lights. I've had no trouble finding the 'warm' white LED bulbs in all shapes and sizes (all Chinese, of course). So far the light has been acceptable, although not as nice as incandescent bulbs. I was offered the choice between plain 'white' LEDs which, as CD points out, are more 'blue' than white. I couldn't stand the light they gave off and just stuck with the 'warm' ones. I know the plain 'white' (blue) ones are more energy efficient, but we're talking milliamps here. FYI, I don't think I paid more than US$20.00 per bulb, and I managed to use all my old fixtures.

 

I bought a cheap LED reading light a few years ago that worked fine when the battery voltage was up, but it sucked when the voltage was getting low. I pulled it back out and put back in the 12 volt cfl fixture.

How well do these new LED replacement bulbs perform when the voltage starts getting low?

 

Mine have been fine so far. If the voltage goes down (and it went way down - don't ask me why!), they just dim a bit. I think the new LED bulbs are very different than the older generation ones. They are very reliable today, not to mention the amazing variety of configurations they come in now. I'm even using LED strips, which you can cut to length and make your own 'bulbs' with (such as by lining an inverted plastic cup).

 

CD, thanx for the warning - more LED bulbs were on our shopping list for the boat show this year, but now I'm guessing we'll be getting them from sailor solutions instead of sensibulb.

 

Sailor Solutions is supplying the new Sensibulb.

 

I purchased from Mastlight at the show last year and have been very happy with their bulbs. They're a warm white and if I remember correctly I paid about $10/bulb (G4 base). I'm going to pick up some more from them this year, and I want a brighter bulb for the bulkhead light.

mastlight.com

Jim

 

One of the problems we have found of late is that the definition of 'warm white' has become somewhat fluid. Traditionally 'warm white' was 2700k but today we are seeing 3000k plus lamps branded as 'warm white'. This applies to both CFL and LED light sources.

I've got a bunch of LED lamps in my car , ready to install into our old incandescent fixtures and to replace the halogens in our reading lamps. Should get this done on the weekend, will report back.

ps - the wombats run an architectural lighting business. Quite frankly I think that for residential use the whole CFL/LED v Halogen debate is a load of old hooey if only because lighting is not a major component of the typcal residential energy bill, presuming of course they get turned off occasionally. To my great surprise, for the likes of Osram and Philips CFL/LED has been a nice little earner.

 

My experience with the new Sensibulbs is totally different from CD's. I also have both old and new and the new ones, while slightly cooler in color temp, are a very comfortable color in our cabin and are not "blue" at all. If you look at them next to the old ones they are indeed more "blue" looking but I don't find them to be cold at all in the cabin and neither does my wife who HATED most every LED I have tried. She never noticed the switch from old style Sensibulb to new though I did stick all of the old ones in the head and v-berth to separate them. I believe the original bulbs were about 2700 and the new ones are about 2900 color temp wise.

The new bulbs are also significantly brighter about 180 lumens vs. the 130 or so for the older ones. They also have a much wider beam width and spread than the old ones did. They are STILL very, very well designed and create no radio interference something no other LED that I know of can claim..

I would be GLAD to trade my old versions for the new style if CD wants to...?? Can't recall how many old vs. new I have but all are new this past August due to a lightning strike. The old style came from Defender and I was pissed when I got them that they were old stock so I ordered directly from Nick at Sailors Solutions..

New vs. Old:

New:

Old:

 

From the picture of the new sensibulb it is impossible to confirm the color temperature of the led, it is either 2700 or 3000k. It is however a Lumiled Rebel chip, that depending on its quality rating (binning) should be around 100 lumens per watt. The older style looks like a Nichia chip. Both get their yellow coloring from a phosphor-conversion coating contained within the gel-like primary optic. Underneath both are basically InGan "blue'ish" LED's that get their warm color by exciting this phosphor layer and in effect filtering the light. Like anything else this technology is rapidly changing. In my opinion Nichia have been the leaders of Warm White Light. Mr. Nichia developed the process that almost all manufactures use. More information than most really want to know......

It would be interesting to know what the current draw for one of these units is. Driving the chip at 350mA would theoretically be 1 watt plus any inefficiency of the control circuit. Given the size of the heat sink I would be surprised if they were driving any higher, even though that LED will handle 1000mA of current. This brings me to my main point.

The most efficient products are going to be integral fixtures, designed from start to finish with specific end-use in mind. The thermal byproduct of LED's is entirely generated from the back of the chip. This energy needs to be translated into a sufficient heatsink in order to keep the operating temperatures below critical levels. This thermal management is the single greatest factor in the reliability and longevity of the LED. The 50,000 hour claims don't mean anything if it has a dim glow at 40,000.

These bulb replacements may come close, but they cannot address all the unique needs of LED technology. There are standards in the works for larger consumers of LED's, street lights-architectural etc. Because the inherent power limits aboard boats, the marine market has been an early adopter of this technology. It has been and will continue to be a free for all. People are selling all manor of inferior products that don't live up to their claims or even products that emit harmful interference on VHF wavelengths.

My vote, be careful, and you get what you pay for. One quality high brightness LED wholesales for $1.80-$3.00.... Stay tuned and if you aren't desperate hang in there until we see some better product on the market. Usual "boat pricing" will apply!

 

Hey Maine... I will take you up on your offer in a heart beat. But before you committ, please let me do pics. Was going to do them tonight, but had to watch he rangers beat the rays (YEAH!!!!) which I am sure no one else herer cares about (I am an old Ryan fan, so whatever).

However, the new bulbs are very different and I would not buy any more. THe light is really blue, not white or yellow (my preference). I actually wanted to trade them in with Scad.

If anyone puts these bulbs up against the Halogens or old LEDs, they will notice a distinct difference. Wait for pics.

Brian

 

As a long term user of Sensibulbs, I must add my two cents. I tried the blue, multiple led lights of old...for about a few seconds and dumped them quickly. Then I found Sensibulbs.
I've used the older Sensibulbs and like the warm color. At one time, apparently in response to a Practical Sailor comment, SCAD came out with a whiter version. Cooler, (not blue) brighter, and I got ahold of one of them. Althought less 'warm', it was great for reading, and ended up in a reading light by my berth, though I did like the 'warmer' ones a bit better. That said, at my age, brighter is better, even if a bit cooler.
Yes, pricey at $40, but knowing what I know (boofus, I believe, is right), I do believe the Sensibulb will be long-lived and my last light purchase. BTW, the customer service I've received from Sailors Solutions has been quite good.
In July I got a new version Sensibulb. A bit brighter, a bit cooler. Blue? Not in the least. Bad? No. My wife, the most aesthetic conscious-woman on the planet, could tell the difference, but it didn't affect the color of any of our interior accoutrements.
I like them.

 

Just when I though I found the perfect LED!

 

As I said earlier in this thread. I've tried several and have found the bulbs from mastlight to be a nice warm color temp similar to what I get from a halogen. I have two bulkhead lights and I originally tried a masthead in one and the halogen in the other to compare.

For $10 at the show or $14 online definitely worth a try compared to $40.

YMMV,
Jim

 

I just replaced all but one of the interior bulbs in Legacy with LEDs. I have a detailed description of the bulbs I used with photos of them installed at "Legacy": a boat, a family.: LEDs

FWIW, they are all warm-white bulbs and range in cost from $9 to $16.

I got more light out of the LEDs than the 10w G4 bulbs that were in the boat and significantly reduced current draw and heat. Those 10w Halogen G4 bulbs get REALLY hot.

 

Hey Legacy,
Wait about 6 months and take the pics again.
No power dissipation (heat sinks) or temp control on the LEDs.
They will fade/degrade.
You wasted your money.
You can't mount a high power LED on an FR4 PC board with no temp compensation or ability to dissipate heat without adversely affecting the LED.
You will exceed the junction temps of the device over time and the LED's performance will degrade.
Keep your halogens. You will want to use them again when you LEDs aren't putting out enough light to light to read by in a few months.
Paying $40.00 once is far cheaper than paying $16 three times.
Good Luck

 

Wait about 6 months and take the pics again.
No power dissipation (heat sinks) or temp control on the LEDs.
They will fade/degrade.
You wasted your money.
You can't mount a high power LED on an FR4 PC board with no temp compensation or ability to dissipate heat without adversely affecting the LED.
You will exceed the junction temps of the device over time and the LED's performance will degrade.

We will see how it goes. This is a work in progress. Keep in mind that I'm not a live-aboard and will only be using the boat for weekends and a couple week-long cruises for the next couple years. I'll definitely update as I notice any changes.

How long did these particular bulbs last for you?

Keep your halogens. You will want to use them again when you LEDs aren't putting out enough light to light to read by in a few months.

Yup. I kept them all to use for replacements in case of failure.

Paying $40.00 once is far cheaper than paying $16 three times.

I agree.

Good Luck

Thanks.

 

I bought two sensibulbs at the show yesterday. If you put it side by side with a halogen you can see a slightly cooler color to the light. For me, not enough to worry about. I tried them out on the boat last night and was happy with them. I may even get more to replace the last two lights on my boat today.

I looked at all of the LED lights on display and I will say the sensibulb, in my opinion, was the best built.

 

Ray-
"worked fine when the battery voltage was up, but it sucked when the voltage was getting low. " I would suspect that was the sign of a cheap "bulb". An LED can provide uniform lighting over a wide voltage range, but only if there is a regulator chip in the package. That chip may cost as much as a cheap LED itself does, doubling the net cost, so you won't see it in cheaper designs. They'll use a plain resistor to limit power instead.

There's a similar price to be paid for consistent "color" in white LEDs. Those Nichia-patented white LEDs have some manufacturing problems. The process produces LEDs that are all "the same" but they fall into nine very different end results. The color varies cool-neutral-warm into three groups, and the buyer has to pay extra to get LEDs sorted by group, instead of the whole variation. The brightness also varies, roughly 1x-2x-4x and if you want all of them to be the same brightness? That's right, you pay again.
Nichia will sell "assorted" as they come off the line, or hand-tested in any of the 9 (3x3) quality grades. Other vendors may have more uniform production lines, but every LED product has its own unique quirks, either color, brightness,power...something.

Of course that's not unique to LEDs. Even with tungsten bulbs, there are "long life" "industrial" "burn base up/down" "burn sideways" and the ever so special cheap imported ones that last less than six months. We're just used to tungsten bulbs being cheap consumables, easily replaced. (Ain't so cheap anymore, either.)

 

Sensibulb LED

I looked very carefully at the Sensibulb (Sailors solutions) display yesterday at the Annapolis boat show. I should also mention that last year I changed most of my halogen bulbs to Sensibulbs. I examined the new bulbs by comparing their effect when looking at printed pages, bare skin, and on clothing to the same actions using a halogen bulb. The new bulbs are definitely brighter than the older style, and look brighter than the halogen bulb, but I could not detect that there was any noticeable blue tint to the light. Of course, the Sensibulb light may look different in interior fixtures, but still, I detected no blue in the light. I think that it is an excellent product and will purchase more to replace my remaining halogen bulbs. Steve

 

CD—

Could it be that you just got two bad Sensibulbs? Are they from the same manufacturing lot? I seriously doubt that Sensibulb would put out a bluish tint bulb if they could avoid it in any way, given their reputation in the marketplace.

 

I just got back from the show, the new bulbs definitely do NOT put out a "blueish" hue. They have one of the new ones right next to a halogen bulb, and if you look at them straight on, the sensibulb is a little whiter (which to me is good!) and if you put your hand under them, the light reflecting off is nearly identical. I have some pictures I took but can't post them until I get home (wednesday) One thing is for sure, that single LED is very bright and puts out a very smooth and even light, I really like them and will be putting them in my boat

 

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay. Had other more pressing matters.

Well, I will show you the pics I took. I tried to show them side by side so you could see the difference. First a pic showing the difference between the two products:

To the left is the old sensibulb, to the right is the new one. THe new bulb has a single LED, the old has two.

Now to the difference. This first pic is a sensibulb compared to a halogen. THis is the new sensibulb. The sensibulb is to the right. Now please understand that it is hard to show color like this in a picture... it was the best I could do.

THis next pic is a pic of the new Sensibulb against the old sensibulb. The new sensibulb is to the right.

To me, at least in person, there is a distinct difference. It is harder to show it in a picture. Sorry. But maybe you can see what I am talking about? Also, when it reflects against the wood or other shiny surfaces, it becomes more apparent. If it reflects against dull sirfaces, it becomes less apparent. Because all of our wood is glossy, it may be more apparent in our boat than other boats.

Now, I want to say several things in all fairness. First, this is MY (and my wife and kids) opinions. You may not think this looks blue at all. You may put this bulb in your boat and think it looks green or pink. I am not being a smart A, I am simply saying that all of our eyes are different and we may see colors differently. But to us, on our boat, it is BLUE. Not white. Not yellow. It is BLUE.

Second, and this may be more important, I think this BLUE is much more apparent when it is mixed. I did not want to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on LED's and pull out perfectly fine Halogens. So I am replacing them one at a time as the halogens burn out. When I mixed the old Sensibulbs and the halogens, I could not tell any difference. When I mixed the new Sensibulbs and Halogens (and against the old sensibulbs) there was a sharp contrast. As such, for anyone that is planning on pulling out all their LED's and replacing them all at the same time, you may not notice a big difference. MAY NOT NOTICE.... I must say again. We tried simply putting the new ones in our center lights and we still felt it was blue... but not quite as noticeable as when the other lights are on.

SO there you go. I hope this helps. I still think Sensibulb makes a superior products, but I doubt I will be investing in them any more and will save my money until I can find more yellow bulbs or I will stick with halogens because I do not like blue. It looks too much like a flourescent to me (us).

Brian

 

I can definitely see it in your pics, CD. Maybe it would be worth sending a picture to the Sensibulb folks to see if your results are what they would expect. If not, could be a bad batch.

 

It's really tough to tell from the pictures but I would have to say the ones I have don't seem that much off in a direct comparison?

What I DO notice though is just how much WIDER the beam width is on the new model when compared to the old ones. That spread is a fair number of degrees wider than the older models and why I really prefer them over the older models in overhead lighting fixtures.

 

They are also brighter (the new ones) than the older sensibulbs. At least they appear that way to me. But still blue. Whether dull blue or bright blue, it is still blue. And quite candidly, I did not tell much of a difference between the halogens and the old sensibulbs as far as brightness. I would honestly say that when you put old sensibulbs in (mixed with halogens), it would be hard to tell a difference except that maybe the sensiblubs were brighter and sharper. But whatever... if I can't get anymore, it is like crying over spilled milk.

Brian

 

Here are pics I took of the new bulb at the show next to a halogen, I'm very impressed with these, if they hold up over time they seem well worth it...

It "looks" dimmer, but that's probably because it doesn't shine nearly as much light on the fixture. It doesn't look bluer, it does look more white.

Now, with my hand under both the light output and color look nearly identical, matter of fact the halogen on the right looks whiter to me...

EXIF data to show no color balance monkeying going on, there was also no post processing other than resizing...

Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
Image Date: 2010:10:11 14:26:26
Focal Length: 18mm
Aperture: f/3.5
Exposure Time: 0.050 s (1/20)
ISO equiv: 200
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: program (Auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No
Color Space: sRGB

 

I am beginning to wonder if I have a bad set?? Do you see the color difference in my pics? Very different from yours. ANd again, I want to stress, it is hard to show blue in a pic so what you see as blue is REALLY blue (at least to me).

I will reach out to the sensibulb folks with my pics.

Brian

 

I have spoken with Scad again this morning. I have sent them the pics. We may end up exchanging them for the older set. I will let everyone know how it turns out.

They were very nice about this over the phone... and a bit perplexed because I seem to be the only person that has brought up this issue.

 

They were very nice about this over the phone... and a bit perplexed because I seem to be the only person that has brought up this issue.

Maybe you and the missus are just feeling a little blue these days?