In my opinion, here is the deal with the Westsail 32''s. There are lots of boats that offer equal or better space, strength, seaworthiness and carrying capacity for essentially the same price. Most of these sail on a longer waterline and have a longer overall length. In a general sense that results in better speed, ease of handling in a blow, and a more comfortable motion. The other issue is that many of these boats were kit built by amateurs and while build quality of the home builts can be quite good, it often isn''t. I have mentioned before an amatuer finished version which has concrete and steel ballast that was substantially lower in weight and density than the design called for.

These boats do have their big fans but to me, depending on how you look at it they are short, expensive to buy and maintain, cramped, not especially seaworthy or offering comfortable motion when sized by their displacement and only look roomy and seaworthy when sized by their length on deck.

Respectfully,
Jeff

 

Here''s another view, of a specific W32 which I think is very representative, that underscores Jeff''s points:

My boat is currently moored outboard a W32 that''s been taken to Europe & back; it''s clearly capable of the kinds of sailing for which it was supposedly built. (So are many others). My boat is the same displacement, same LOA, same sail area (altho'' I have more sail carrying options in light winds, since mine is a ketch), same mast height. My boats LWL is 33'' (vs. 27'' for the W32), my beam 13'' (vs. 11''), has 3 sea berths (vs. 1), a sit-down nav station (vs. stand-up right at the companionway), an additional large cabin, and a stand-up separate shower stall (vs. tiny head modified to take a shower faucet).

My cockpit is large (too large, some would think) with coamings that provide backrests on all sides. A fair amount of protection is provided on the wind by the dodger and cabin trunk. A bimini provides good overhead sun protection, altho'' it can be ''reefed'' when sail handling and/or sail trimming must be done. The W32 cockpit has no backrests nor any barriers to water sloshing down the side decks sweeping under the crew''s bottoms before entering the cockpit well. The bimini possible on this boat is by necessity very small. In cold weather, there is virtually no protection except for one person to sit on the companionway bridge-deck, just under/behind the small dodger. Stowage space aft is at a minimum due to the pointed stern. (How these unsuitable features were not viewed in total contrast to the advertised view of the boat is IMO because W32''s were marketed in South Seas/tropical cruising venues, as tho'' protection from the cold, the sun, the wind and the occasional angry wave were unimportant).

This W32 was owner completed. The current owner, a very technically competent fellow, has spent huge amounts of time (tho'' not lots of money) to correct wiring, mechanical and other problems. The cosmetic problems remain to be addressed. This was done as part of a total refit. While I''ve added many systems to my boat related to offshore sailing, the basic boat (hull, deck, interior) remain untouched except as care & maintenance have required.

From a design standpoint, it''s hard to understand where the interest in a W32 comes from. But then, we all know the answer: it''s the romanticized view of our boat - any boat - that seems to shape our view, and this boat does have the sizzle in some folks minds, even if it''s light on the steak.

Jack

 

Jack,

I thought you had a Pearson 424 ketch. Do you still have this boat?
Dave

 

Dave:

Yup, a ''79 Pearson 424. All the comparisons I gave above reflect WHOOSH as she sits in Satellite Beach, FL today.

Jack

 

Jack and Jeff
On people's gratuitous views of some types of boats, such as the Westsail 32, please keep in mind that in all things, one man's meat is another man's poison.
I find it quite offensive that so many people, without any first hand knowledge of a boat feel unconstrained in making venomous pronouncements about the virtues, or more frequently, the lack of virtues of certain types of sailing boats.
Here are some quotes that spring to mind - from people who have a far greater right to make pronouncements:
"But some (sailing) people will tell one almost anything. I do not so much mind them telling me such nonsense, but I do think it is unreasonable of them to expect to be believed." Eric Hiscock.
And, more pertinent:
"Due to circumstances or mood, a man may call his ship a mean ***** or a wet brute, but he will not stand for such liberties from the beach. If he understands and makes allowances for her shortcomings, then a special relationship exists, and a vessel will sometimes give an extra quality that there is no name for."
Charles A. Borden, Sea Quest.
So - keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

 

GeoffR,

So by quoting someone that sailed 30 years (or more) ago, Jeff and Jack's vast knowledge is suddenly uninformed opinions?
Jack Laurent Giles who design two of the Wanderers sailed by the Hiscock's was an early adopter of fin-keels and spade rudders

Laurent Giles described as part of his design philosophy that a yacht should have
the utmost docility and sureness of maneuvering at sea, in good or bad weather

From John Laurent Giles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Interesting boats by him are John Guzwell's Trekka and Myth of Malham.

 

Every boat is a series of compromises. Back in the heyday of the W32, it was heavily promoted as a rugged, safe boat, and its price reflected the heavy promotion. Even then, it was known as the wetsnail 32, and it appealed more to safety conscious sailors than to performance oriented sailors.

The boat is notoriously slow to weather. I remember the delivery crew who took 30 days to do the 800 mile baja bash under sail when the engine conked out. I also knew a man who had to be rescued when he could not make the 80 mile sail from Trinidad to Greneda when the wind went northeast. OTOH, a W32 did well in the downwind races from California to Hawaii, and most cruisers minimise thier time spent going to weather anyway. BTW, the Pearson cruisers are also pretty slow to weather, and some posters still like them...

They are tough little boats--I know of one which bounced across the reef into the lagoon in New Caledonia--boat survived, but unfortunately the skipper was washed off and lost. However, I do know one which was lost at sea with all hands in a blow off Madagascar.

I haven't priced W32's in a while, but if the premium prices over comparable boats have disappeared, they could be a reasonable purchase.

Boats are like women--some prefer skinny blondes, some prefer curvy redheads.

 

Jack -
I think it would be more appropriate to compare your Pearson to vessels of similar LOD, not LOA. The Westsail has a mile of bowsprit and boomkin which contributes nothing to waterline length or accommodations.
Geoff R -
By your standards I guess I should take offense at your comments regarding Jeff & Jacks knowledge? Or do you have some first hand experience regarding that?
JomsViking -
How did Laurent Giles get in here?

 

Jack -
I think it would be more appropriate to compare your Pearson to vessels of similar LOD, not LOA. The Westsail has a mile of bowsprit and boomkin which contributes nothing to waterline length or accommodations.

FSMike, I almost choked when I read that comparison by Jack. So way off base, I cannot go into here without getting banned!

Westsail 32 is a good boat and I would consider one for HIGHER LATITUDES where there is fair amount of wind and weather. She is a horn bagger, not a coconut/milk runner.

The major problem I see with her is that most of them out there have teak decks, which is a maintenance nightmare $$$. They come in all prices but some can be had very nicely. They are slow but will get you there.

 

Hey guys,

This is a pretty darn old thread that just got dredged-up.

Jack ("whoosh") hasn't been around for quite a while so isn't likely to step in and explain himself anytime soon. So I will just say that I don't find his dimensional comparisons altogether inappropriate (he did say "LOA", after all.) Besides the performance advantages, I think another unstated point may have been that he pays the same mooring fees as a Westsail 32 and yields the benefit of a much more commodious boat. That's a valid point, in my opinion.

As for the Westsail's perfomance: Many owners readily admit that sailing to weather is not the boat's strongpoint.

But these boats could be sailed fairly advantageously on a reach and downwind through the trades. My sailing mentor sailed his W32 to NZ and back (from California). When they reached harbor in the Marquesas after a long run over from San Diego, they compared passage notes with the dozen or so other boats in the anchorage that had come via the same route. As it turned out, they were the smallest boat by several feet (with a few Peterson 44s among them). But they had clocked the shortest passage time -- by a margin of several days.

No, they hadn't all departed at the exact same time, but this anecdote does show that there's more to passage speeds than just a boat's performance specs.

 

Hey guys,

So I will just say that I don't find his dimensional comparisons altogether inappropriate (he did say "LOA", after all.) Besides the performance advantages, I think another unstated point may have been that he pays the same mooring fees as a Westsail 32 and yields the benefit of a much more commodious boat. That's a valid point, in my opinion.

As for the Westsail's perfomance: Many owners readily admit that sailing to weather is not the boat's strongpoint.

But these boats could be sailed fairly advantageously on a reach and downwind through the trades. My sailing mentor sailed his W32 to NZ and back (from California). When they reached harbor in the Marquesas after a long run over from San Diego, they compared passage notes with the dozen or so other boats in the anchorage that had come via the same route. As it turned out, they were the smallest boat by several feet (with a few Peterson 44s among them). But they had clocked the shortest passage time -- by a margin of several days.

I have a list of boats for consideration in an eventual move to permanent live aboard and later open ocean cruising use. The Westsail 32 was on my list, until I had to ask myself how long a boat it was. I'd need at least a 40' slip locally for it, that bowspirit counts in terms of physical space, and there's a lot of interesting boats I could fit into a slip that big. Worse yet, where I want a slip the difference in waiting time between a 35' & 40' slip is 5 years.

On the other hand if I was walking down dock G and asked to pick out any sailboat as a gift, I would at least pause in front of the Westsail. They can and do cross oceans, win long downwind races, and have good room inside for the hull length.

And there are a lot of them around. Some of the more vaunted offshore boats I never see come on the market on the West Coast, or at no where near prices I could consider. But there are always a few Westsail 32s around to be passed on to the next world traveler.

 

I agree it is an old thread but the comparison by Whoosh is valid as both his Pearson and the Westsail do have almost the same displacement (the Pearson is 1500 lbs heavier), a valid comparison between designs. There are both a Pearson 424 and a Westsail 32 in my marina and I recently did some electrical work on the Westsail. Slow as we all know and not my type of boat but it's construction was hard to fault. And I was everywhere from the engine bilge to most lockers and the main bilge. The rig is solid and the bulwarks add about 8" to the lifeline height for more security. I can see how Snider Vick (promoter of the Westsail in its heyday) was so successful. He sold dreams as much as boats and the Westsail certainly fits the dream.
I do agree with Jeff that construction of the home builts was all over the place, as with most any home finished boat.

 

This is an interesting thread for me, as I am looking for a 'westsail32-type' boat. I won't be in the market for about 6 more months, but when I get there, I plan to buy.

Would anybody be able to list boat types that are similar, in addition to the pearson 424? There are a few posters who mention that such boats are common, but my knowledge of boats ends about the time they graduate past trailer sailors.

So what other hulls fit that westsail32 concept? I'm thinking, specifically, of a price range in the 35K-45K range (asking.. these days, price is always negotiable, of course), moderate to heavy displacement, 32-ish feet (comfort for a cozy crew of two), cutter rigged, tiller steering, full or nearly-full keel, and generally designed to be a friendly sailing and live-aboard vessel.

I also like that the rudder is transom hung, though obviously most boats are sporting skeg-hung rudders much past that 28 foot range, right?

Anyway, I'd love a list of other boats to check out/look up if you guys have time.

Thanks!

 

Would anybody be able to list boat types that are similar, in addition to the pearson 424? ...Anyway, I'd love a list of other boats to check out/look up if you guys have time.

In addition to others already mentioned in this thread (Westsail 28, Mariah 31, SC 31/28, etc.) you may also consider the following as "comparable" to a W32:

Island Packet 31
Baba 30/35
Ta Shing 31
Halberg-Rassy Monsun 31 & Rasmus 35
Valiant 32
Allied Seawind 30 & Princess 36
True North 34
Willard 8 Ton
Fantasia 35
Union 36
Hans Christian 33/34
Fuji 32/35
Shannon 28/38
Pan Oceanic 36
Tayana 37
Dreadnought 32
Alajuela 33/38
Liberty 28
Ingrid 38
Mariner 32/40
Rafiki 35/37

 

I think that anyone considering Westsail 32 should read "Rescue in Pacific"
Amazon.com: Rescue in the Pacific: A True Story of Disaster and Survival in a Force 12 Storm…

or just look at this year "Pacific puddle jump"
Pacific Puddle Jump News

3 Westsail 32 entered, one sunk, one dismasted and abounded, one reported missing deadline, arrived later.

No bashing here, just some food for thoughts.

 

CrazyRu
And then there is Satori, the Westsail that survived the Perfect Storm. Everybody left via the Coast Guard but the boat survived without them. And Robin Knox Johnson's Suhaili, the boat in which he circumnavigated non-stop singlehanded (the first to do so), a boat very similar to a Westsail built in wood.

CapTim
The Pearson 424 is not much like the Westsail. About the only thing they have in common is a similar weight and that they are both boats. The Pearson is 11' longer, 6 1/2' longer on the waterline, 2' beamier, and has a displacement/length ratio of 243 vs 429 for the Westsail, and has a rudder on a skeg. The Pearson also probably has twice the cubic area inside. But it is an interesting comparison of 2 very different boats that weigh more or less the same. The reason it is an interesting comparison is that if you are getting a boat built they tend to price by the pound if similarly equipped and built of the same materials.

Why do you want a boat like a Westsail? Just asking.

A boat that is really similar to the Westsail but larger would be the Alajuela 37
The Westsail is based on the Kendall 32 but they are quite rare, and it was based on Atkin's Eric. Other similar boats are Hans Christian, Lord Nelson, Union Cutters, Tayanas, Prairie Cutters, and Babas. Probably one of the better performing of this type, the Pacific Seacraft 31, was designed by Bill Crealock, the designer who really developed the Westsail (Kendall) from Atkin's Eric.
Here's a link to a Westsail site WESTSAIL - WORLD CRUISER YACHT CO. with a lot of information about them.
Here's a review of the Westsail Westsail 32 Review : Bluewaterboats.org

As nicely done as some of the Westsails are, I personally like a lighter boat with the beam not carried as far forward. On Wikipedia the Westsail is described as roomy because of this and it also suggests that the weight of a large amount of supplies doesn't affect the performance. I think the design itself limits performance and a few thousand pounds more makes little difference.

 

...Probably one of the better performing of this type, the Pacific Seacraft 31, was designed by Bill Crealock, the designer who really developed the Westsail (Kendall) from Atkin's Eric...

Brian,

Those are good comments. Just a couple points of clarification:

I would not agree that the Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 is much similar to these other boats you listed, certainly nothing like the Westsail 32.

This is a frequent source of confusion, probably due to Pacific Seacraft's earlier 31-footer model, called the Mariah 31. The Mariah 31 in fact WAS very similar to these boats and is often mistaken for a Westsail 32, since it shares the double-ender hull form with very close dimensional measurements.

The more recent Crealock 31 design has a traditional wine-glass transom, with a fin-keeled, skeg-hung rudder underbody, as compared to the Mariah's (and Westsail's) full keel, double-ender configuration. The Mariah was a Henry Morschladt design and, like the Westsail, was tremendously "bulkier" than the later Crealock 31. I don't have figures at my fingertips, but I seem to recall the Mariah displacing about 16K lbs as compared to the Crealock 31 at 11K lbs, with the Crealock on a longer waterline, too!

 

Forgot the picture.

 

Whats anyones opinion about the Westsail 28?

 

John
I was actually thinking of the PSC 37, a boat that has some of the looks of the Westsail but as far as I know none of its vices.
Yes the Mariah was very similar to the Westsail. A lightweight version. Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31, In Brief : Bluewaterboats.org
I forgot to mention the Southern Cross 31 which is also similar in looks to a Westsail.
I guess it boils down to whether one wants a boat that fits their image of a solid seaworthy cruiser in looks - eg canoe stern, bowsprit, bulwarks instead of a clean deck edge, and cutter rig - of which there are several that sail quite well. Or they are in love with the Westsail itself with its deficiencies.

Even though I was wrong about the Crealock PSC 31 it does have some of the "offshore look" of the Westsail while being a much better sailing boat.

William Crealock thought there was a market for "10 or 12" of the Kendall 32. But with the promotion of Westsail itself and help from Ferenc Mate's "From A Bare Hull" they sold about 830 of them.

 

....Even though I was wrong about the Crealock PSC 31 it does have some of the "offshore look" of the Westsail while being a much better sailing boat....

Brian,

We prefer to say "mistaken".

Seriously though, I definitely wasn't trying to prove a point with you. I just have this little crusade going to help clarify the difference between PSC's Mariah 31 and the Crealock 31 -- partly because I get so many e-mails and PMs from folks asking me about these boats.

Toward that end, I will link to both boats from that excellent resource you are using, so folks can see them side-by-side as it were:

Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31

I will also mention that, something about the profile view leads many folks to assume the Crealock 31 has a canoe stern like its bigger sisters. Instead, it has a wine-glass transom, which allows for a larger cockpit and fuller stern sections -- a good thing in a boat this size.

Anyways, always good to hear form you, Brian.

 

SaltyMonkey
It's smaller.
In numbers almost the same as the 32, slightly higher disp/length ratio and a bit more sail area. All Westsails from the 28 to 42 are very similar in concept.
WINDFALL - W28 A Westsail 28 for sale.

 

Very nice.. now I've got some homework to do. Always fun to learn about new boats

As to wanting a Westsail.. it's not so much that I want a westsail, as I want a boat that does many of the things that Westsail's reputation claims it can do.

I plan to move aboard with my wife, spend a few years tooling around, and eventually make my way over to the other side of the big pond. But the catch is that, while I can earn money, I don't really want to. I've spent a long time living so that I can work.. now I'm looking to turn that around.

So, I figure a conservative, safe, comfortable, easy-maintainable boat is where I should look. In the great balancing act that is sailboats, I'm willing to give up some speed to gain comfort, give up some size to decrease expenses, give up some 'prettiness' to not have to varnish everything I look at, and look for work as I go so I don't have to wait another 10 years to build up a cruising kitty.

So I'll need a boat that does great at anchor, holds enough supplies that I don't have to shop every 10 minutes, can carry enough parts and tools that I don't find myself paying double because of location, and is simple enough in design that I can handle most of the work myself.

But that canoe-shaped stern.. I hear a lot of debate over whether it's really all that much safer than something that carries the beam a little further aft... but there's really no debate over whether or not a canoe stern destroys storage space. So I'm not sold on that shape, for sure. Or the weight.. I'm all for heavy displacement, but ... that's super-heavy, there.

So it's not that I have my heart set on the westsail, it's just that the westsail seems to be a good compromise. Now I have other boats to look at, though.

Thanks

[/hijack]

 

CapTim
I am of the belief that the shape of the hull below the water is more important than that above the water. Avoiding fat ass extremes of course. Most boats will rise to a sea, although the Westsail with its weight maybe not so much. A moderate displacement boat like the Pacific Seacraft 31 is not handicapped by having a transom in my opinion. I can't think of too many canoe stern boats currently being built - if it made that much difference there would surely be more.
I have never seen a Westsail that didn't have a lot of exterior wood to varnish or cetol.
Go to Boats for Sale, Yachts for Sale, Used Boats, Power Boats, Motor Yachts and search by size, price or whatever and look for ideas - a good resource.

 

The story of Satori is a failure - but not of the boat.

As I posted earlier I am not a Westsail fan, but I do not consider them unsafe. Obviously a home finished boat can be iffy but if well done they are more solid than most and well suited to offshore use.

As far as Suhaili vs the Westsails in the Queen Elizabeth storm, the weather Knox-Johnson met in his circumnavigation was severe at times as well. Maybe the difference is the sailors?

 

CapTim,

Someone mentioned earlier as an alternative to the Westsail is the Southern Cross 31. About 6K lighter but with all of the other characteristics you listed. Wife and I looked at one yesterday and were both very impressed. Many circumnavigations/crossings and a great owners site (but requires membership to get to the good stuff).

Good luck.

 

cool.. thanks for the heads up. What's a reasonable price for a southern cross 31?

 

CapTim
Here are the ones listed on Yachtworld. Some are the heavier Mariah which is older and almost the same as a Westsail.
pacific seacraft (Sail) Boats For Sale

 

Another alternative is the Elizabethan 30 or 33.

 

Or Contessa 32 and Hustler 30