Dear former hedge fund manager/executive....

Why don't you buy both. If you haven't earned sufficient bonuses in your previous employment, maybe daddy can help out.

Having read your Bio I am disinclined to offer free advice to anyone, however young, who has played a part in our current financial debacle. Especially one who has managed to "earn" sufficient funds to support a nomadic lifestyle to find himself.

As you are currently paying $25K to become an "ocean graduate", I will be magnanimous and lower my fee to $400 pd for advice.

 

Why don't you buy both. If you haven't earned sufficient bonuses in your previous employment, maybe daddy can help out.

Having read your Bio I am disinclined to offer free advice to anyone, however young, who has played a part in our current financial debacle. Especially one who has managed to "earn" sufficient funds to support a nomadic lifestyle to find himself.

As you are currently paying $25K to become an "ocean graduate", I will be magnanimous and lower my fee to $400 pd for advice.

What the...!??? Where did that come from? Give me a break. That is the same kind of crap like where people in the US were throwing this big hissy fit for the bonuses (previously agreed upon) to AIG employees... people's lives ruined that had nothing to do with this. Judge the man by who he is and quit blaming everyone else for the mess that we are in today.

Quite candidly, I found your comments beneath what I have typically read from you here.

- CD

 

It's funny you know. I now have long hair and a beard and when people look at me or speak to me initially they assume I am either a bum, uneducated or both. At passport controls it is harder with that look than a boring "princeton haircut", in particular throughout Europe and the US.

The one thing I have learned on my travels through Africa and most other places I have been lucky to see is that one should never, ever, rashly judge someone. There is usually more to most than meets the eye.

So all I'd offer is that when I am visiting Florida, which I hope I will before I head off to the Carribbean, is to have a drink with you and convince you of that simple thing.

Kind regards
JP

 

Diplomatically put, that was a perfect way to shsre your message without instantly shutting you out.

Hi all,

It is decision time. I have to chose between a 20 year old Passport 40 in perfect condition and nearly ready to go and a 10 year old Valiant 42 which needs quite a bit of work but is far superior of course. The price difference once everything is worked in is roughly $100k... A LOT of money.

I am struggeling. I know the Passport 40 is excellent. I am a singlehandler so it is a size I can cope with. It will keep me safe on my solo circumnavigation and the price is not outrageous. Downside is that it is old and may be harder to sell down the road and not as fresh as the Valiant 42 design...

For a $100k difference, or roughly 50% more, is a Valiant 42 really 50% more boat than a Passport 40? Is it not better for me for my first real boat to go for the cheaper one and then in a few years get myself a Valiant 42 or something at that time?

Thoughts welcome.
I instantly wonder why the considerably older vessel is in excellent condition and ready to cruise and the opposite is true of the vessel that's not only newer but according to you a far superior boat.
Maintenance or just just that the Valiant was abused and neglected, where as the Passport was not.
I say this because negligence can easily attribute to much shorter Auxiliary life and the life of every mechanical piece of equipment on board. You could feasibly have to rebuild earlier than should be required and now you're looking at an astrological amount of $$$$. I'd look much harder at the Passport, it's ready to cruise and probably has had top notch maintenance where as the Valiant has not. Save vast sums of money, time, and aggravation, leave the Valiant at the dock. BTW, the Passport is one of the best built vessels that had the very best of equipment and materials used. Come on, the teak, brass port lites, the fit and finish is truly second to none.
J
Keep-Searching.net

May I ask is you know why the Passport is in far better shape and ready to cruise and why the Valiant is not even though the Passport

 

I will be delighted to meet you....

Drop me a e-mail when you are in the area.

I'm sure you are a very personable individual. As they say, "hate the sin, not the sinner".

 

If I was going to solo or circum, the V-42 is the boat I would want. Of course, that assumes all things are equal which they may not be in this case.

I am currently about 100 feet from where they lay up the boats (Cedar Mills). I know the people pretty well that are there. THe boats are very well made and renound for what you want to do.

The Passports are good boats too and I would think they would be better light air performers. THe V-42's stink in light airs. I would feel comfortable in making a long distance passage in a Passport 40.

There are two things I would urge you to consider in this:

1) Are you CERTAIN you will circum? THe V-42, for all its long distance abilities, is a tight boat down below. I would think the Passport more comfortable.

2) Do not by via name. Buy these boats via how they were cared for. I would rather take a well cared for Bene or Catalina around the world than I would a poorly cared for Valiant. Make sense?

If you want something that I think is a bit of a compromise between the two, I would tell you to look at a Tayana 42. That is what my parents have. I am very familiar with the boat. It would be a comfortable live aboard, lots of storage, and would take you wherever you wanted to go. The Valiant is a better boat for a circum - but I think you would be fine on a Tayana 42 (and for that matter, the Passport too).

- CD

 

Second on the Tayana's Too. I've sailed alongside a couple 52/3's in my travels.
Me. 79yrs. lost depth of field. NO more sailing. Caravans nowadays.
That Tayana is more a sailing yacht than the other 2, They are more like floating caravans. Big. Bulky. boxlike.
Specially by yourself. You'll find yourself sailing with a half full boat. Lots of interior room to spare. Take lotsa stores/spares. Even if YOU can't fix something. in yachtie world. There are.
99% of time. Somebody who can fix. IF YOU have the bits.
Go for a narrower./longer more seaworthy/weatherly vessel. You'll have MUCH more comfortable waters. I used to carry Bladders/Jerry cans of extra fuel/water in bilges in mine. Ballast and reserves.
MORE length. Less beam is better. and NOT fin keel, they walk all over the water.
Long keel. Cutaway forefoot Skeg hung rudder.Or variations of those '60's hull forms will steer themselves for days without walking, as long as wind constant. I steered mine on a small windvane on stern pulpit to Wheel Pilot powered by solar, or Mizzen/Main sheet to emergency tiller stock through stern cabin roof..
You can park alongside wharves. On a (preinspected for rocks) beach. Lots of small backwater clubs have "poles" to lean against. for a scrub. Ask around wherever you are.
You going round this big rock. You'll find, unless you spend a LOT of time hiding behind rocks.
Over 40/45% of your sailing time is usually into it.
Also. I did a bit of offshore by myself.
I bumped into a container South W. of Tassie in Shipping lanes Back in the '80's.
I hit it early morn. Pitch Black. 40ish knots. sliding down a face. Bump. She stopped dead. Fell over to port and kept going.
The main thing is. She didn't drip a drop of water in the next 120ish miles in those condition to Strahan. Then. Oxy. Coupla hammers and some filler. You'd never know.
We're down in the 40's there. Great sailing. WIth the right boats. Plus. NO crew. it equates to NO responsibility for others. The best. Get used to 20 min sleep snatches. And I always dropped a bow anchor to it's full length if getting some sleep. even in deep water.
Shoals (usually) will stop you b4 you hit if that swinging. Plus it's a good drogue.
Bommies. Hard luck..
If you serious about going round. OR serious offshore/long legs. Buy a late '70's to early '90's vessel depending on your back pocket.
Most are copies of the RORC '60s. offshore hull forms. Seaworthy and sail well.
MY last 2 yachts have been well made STEEL.
Both made by Boilermakers in Shipyards in their own time.
42ft BODEN South Seas. for 7 yrs. Overlapping with my Pugh Moonwind 32ft (17yrs)
Centre Cockpits only, (further away from the back and sides to be thrown out in the bumpy stuff.)
I dislike stern cockpits intensly. I've seen a couple go over the back. Swinging on Harness straps. No thank's.
Personally. Coastal and shipping lanes. I wouldn't float round in a Plastic tub.They bounce around like corks in a good sea. I've sailed alongside a few in the bouncy waters. thinking, Thank god I'm in here.
Those little, built with Wider stern. Moonwinds. for a 32fter are VERY good and comfortable
heavy weather sea boats. With an oversize rig and 4 slab reefs. Good in light airs too.
I had 32ft hull. 37ft6in mast. 35ft luff. 12ft 8in boom. Loose foot, Full battens,
Full top luff on Main sail. plus a 4oz light genny off a 40/42fter. Luff cut to suit. Fly loose luff up to 10 knots MAX.
I'd do 3ish knots in 3-4 knots of breeze, once we started moving. I surprised a lot of Plastic boats.
Some boats self steer. SOME are pigs. Regardless.
Check any boat for that, B4 you fork out .
and whatever you get. Have a great time.
Always wear a line at night. even when dead calm. You CAN't See or hear that nasty one coming.
I usually wore a inflatable harness/jacket (by myself) ON a clip on line. Plus towed a 1/2 in KNOTTED line from CENTRE stern.
ALL times I stepped outside the cabins. The boat won't turn round for you,
and if she on Pilot. By By Boat.
NEVER Not be fastened to boat at all times. Over the yrs of my life I've known a few. and read of a LOT more who went over.
I was on North Sea Trawlers in mid/late '50's. we lost a couple or three deckies most yrs. Boats too, in those days.
It's dangerous. RESPECT her (he sea) as such.

 

I always enjoy sailing past them and just waiving!!!

- CD

 

Gents,

Thanks a lot for your input. I think it is easy to fall in love with the Valiants. They are really stellar boats and have sufficient horror stories to tell where they kept the crew alive. Plus they have a huge fan base in the US, which is a good thing I suppose.

I guess the point goes to value - 50% more for a Valiant 42 vs. a decent Passport 40 is where I choke a bit. Around the $280k mark for a Valiant 42, one starts getting into hugely expensive boats in my opinion and the competition then becomes stiff. For not that much more one can get a Halberg Rassy for example. When one stays under $200k all-in, ready to go, then there is not that much competition.

I thus wonder if a Passport 40, around $185k on-the water ready to go with everything needed is just not really better value.

I mean, if you want to circumvent but have the time to wait for decent weather and don't have to go out into 60KN winds, then you reduce the number of storms you encounter and thus the risk. Obviously being prepared for it is still key because these things happen, but I guess with a Valiant you can maybe just "go" no matter what. The Passport you may wait a bit, or just heave to a bit earlier...

The Tayana 42 is a really interesting case. I had looked extensively at the Tayana 37 and loved the style, sailing ability (even though dull in low winds) and storage, but found everything to be quite hard to access within the boat. The Passport in that regard is excellent: very well laid out, engine easy access, good design with the head at the bow to reduce weight, etc. The Tayana 37 for example had often Bow fuel tanks which are a no-go for me. I guess I should look into 42s a bit more, but there aren't any really good examples I could find so far.

 

The Tayana Vancouver 42 is a totally different animal than the 37.

You will not just "go" in ANY boat, unless she is a tanker. You cannot guess your weather 5-7 days out, which means that if you are going to make a passage across the pond(s), you will have to deal with what comes.

One of the things I like about the Valiants (better than the Tayanas and Passports) are the decks and catwalks. Nice, wide, unobstructed walkways. The boats seem to sit a little lower (lower profile) too. The V-42 has top notch stainless and wiring. Their stainless is about unmatched.

The Tayana 42 does not have the stainless that the Valiant does in my opinion. You may also find many of them with teak decks. Regarding the teak decks, I used to be really negative on them. However, the more time I have spent on them (when wet), the more I like them. However, they get REALLY hot and you will always be replacing the bungs on the freaking things.

Down below, I think the Tayana 42 has the Valiant beat... big time. Even with the newer configurations on teh Valiants, the Tayanas are warmer and more functional and better liveabaords (at least on the aft cockpit models... I have no experience with the CC's). THe head and shower are great. THe aft and forward berths are decinvingly large and comfortable, you will simply lose stuff with all the storage, you can access the lazarette with a walkthrough behind the companionway steps (a great feature), and the salon is nice for both small (just yourself) and large entertainment.

If you are serious about this, fly to Dallas and head up to the Valiant facility. I will walk you through a Tayana Vancouver 42 and I am certain we can seem several examples (for sale even) of Valiant's. There are no Passports that I recall around us, but I can likely get you on a Panda too - assuming they are around. The Panda is another fine, go anywhere boat. You would also be welcome to see my Catalina 400, but it would not be a good choice for doing long distance passagemaking if that is actually what you are going to do.

Just let me know.

- Brian

 

By the way, I should mention: initially I had started looking at Contessa 32s... simply because the bigger the boat the harder it is to truly singlehand...

A Valiant 42 has a huge sail area. A Tayana 42 probably as well, despite being cutter rigged for most. The Ketch strategy is interesting, but it is something I personaly don't like.

The question is important. One usually gets tempted to go "bigger" (subject to budget) but in the end it is a compromise. Bigger is better maybe in strong weather, but not always. A Contessa 32 is probably the ultimate boat you'd want to be on in a really nasty storm... but then it is truly too small... esp if you are two or plan to chill on your sailing tour.

Hell I do plan do hang out in islands and surf, windsurf and simply live well for a while - that's where size to store stuff and live not out of a small bag and cabin makes a difference. I am sure everyone out there is facing the same dilemma. Plus I may find the lady of my dreams so you wouldn't want to share a shoe-box with her for a few years...

So in the end that would be a good topic to discuss related to optimum size in a separate thread some day. Not all 40ft boats are equal. The modern Sweden Yachts for example over here which I sail have massive sails. I could NOT singlehand a Sweden 42 for example. The main is too big to handle in 40+kn winds, drop and fold it. A Tayana 37 is small comparatively...

 

Generally the "go" no matter what has a lot more to do with the crew and/or skipper than the boat itself!

 

I would consider talking with Bob Perry about both boats as an advisor. He charges a nominal sum for the service but no one will know the pluses and minuses of the two boats better. FWIW we really liked the Passport 40/41 and almost bought one until we found the Moody.

 

If the choice is between only this V42 and this Passport 40, I'd take the Passport.

While the boat might be newer, the Valiant 42 is actually a much older design than the Passport 40. It is really just a Valiant 40, which was introduced in the early-mid-70's. I would call the Passport a much more evolved design.

If you are going to spend that kind of money on a V42, please please please sail one first and compare it to a Pacific Seacraft Crealock 40.

But, for a solo circumnavigation, I would really try to convince you toward a smaller boat, like the PSC Crealock 34.

If you are interested in compromising a bit more between robustness and performance (along the lines of what Cruisingdad was saying), see if you can find a Pacific Seacraft-built Ericson 3800. There was a small number of examples built in the mid-late-90's that were outfitted with all the same hardware and systems as PSC's Crealock-series boats, but in this more slippery Bruce King hull. They are hard to come by, but very sweet boats: fin keels, spade rudders, tall rigs, etc.

(Note: Not all the Ericson 38s built by PSC were outfitted like this. They called this special version by a different name, something like "regatta" or "voyager" edition, but I can't remember exactly. The visually distinguishing feature is that they use the same solid bronze portlights that were used on the Crealock series boats.)

 

If the choice is between only this V42 and this Passport 40, I'd take the Passport.

While the boat might be newer, the Valiant 42 is actually a much older design than the Passport 40. It is really just a Valiant 40, which was introduced in the early-mid-70's. I would call the Passport a much more evolved design.

There's some truth in that. The hull certainly hasn't changed since they're using the same molds that were originally made from Bob Perry's design back in the 70's.

However, nearly everything else has evolved. If money wasn't an issue, I'd own a Valiant right now. And a new one too. I actually crewed the first 42 on it's first crossing, and it was a joy to sail. They're semi-custom built, so the interiors vary considerably. For instance, the one I did the crossing on only had one stateroom! Definitely a couple's boat.

In full disclosure, like CruisingDad, I spent many years sailing out of Cedar Mills marina, and seeing many Valiants bring built, and knowing many of the owners, watching them take off, you do get caught up in the magic a bit.

And on a personal note, there's not a prettier boat in the world viewed from the stern...

 

I agree with JRP. If you've got the coin for the V42, then the possibilities are wide open. Don't ignor the PSC 34/37/40. Also, you may consider any number of other Perry designed bluewater boats in the 35-40 foot range.

 

We have a Perry designed 42- not a Passport but eerily similar. Really, really similar. We love it, but it is a lot of boat to handle even with 2. That being said, we will be eventually ordering a Valiant 42.

If I were going to be singlehanding, I would definitely consider a smaller boat. Heck, I wanted a smaller boat to go cruising with a family of 3. 42 is just a tremendous amount of boat for one person to handle. Something in the 30-35 foot range would be my choice and there are a lot of great boats to choose from.

 

If you have'nt already I would check out Yacht Design According to Perry. It includes a detailed writeup on both the Valiant 40/42 and Passport 40 including line drawing of both boats.

Ilenart

 

I'd be more than happy to answer any Passport 40 questions for you. We love ours. There are a number of things your surveyor should look at, though, before you call the boat perfect. They can look great on the outside, but Taiwanese boats can have some metal issues, but they can be found on survey. With the right setup there shouldn't be an issue singlehanding a Passport 40 - I do it regularly when I do my night watches and the wife is down below. Personally, if I were singlehanding, I'd go for a smaller boat. The 40 is great for a couple, but there's A LOT of room so I would think she might be oversized for a single. If you like the 40, take a look at the 41 - it's the same boat but with a small "sugar scoop" transom. It makes it much easier to board from the stern, which may be important if you fall overboard. The Passport 40 has a reverse transom so it can be a bit tough to board at the stern. Outside of that, she's a wonderful sailor with a great plan and a very comfortable cockpit and interior, plus an incredible galley and great engine placement.

 

If you place a question like this on the sailing anarchy forum, Bob Perry will most likely chime in and give a little info for you.

 

Thanks - I looked at the Saga 43 and it is just too big. I tend to agree with most that 40 is the max in terms of size for a singlehander. the reason I consider the Valiant 42 is because it is simply a 40 with a bowsp.

 

Hi all,

It is decision time. I have to chose between a 20 year old Passport 40 in perfect condition and nearly ready to go and a 10 year old Valiant 42 which needs quite a bit of work but is far superior of course.
Keep-Searching.net
[/QUOTE

11 year thread

 

You got me writing a post on a 11 year ld dead thread

 

Me too

 

try the Paliant 41... it's the best of both worlds