I realize that this is an outboard, but are you trying to use power to make it happen or just muscle? With the spring and power my boat would most likely pull straight against the spring. Not sure about the outboard though.

Your winch ideal should work and save you muscle power at least.

 

After you grab the spring which you are attaching midships, what happens if you turn your outboard (best) or rudder (second best) so as to move the stern to starboard (like you are turning to port). Then put just enough power on to move the stern to stbd and put the boat parallel to the dock, but not fully stem the current. If you can turn your outboard, you have a stern thruster, something very few of us inboard guys have. Wonder if the spring would then do its job and crab you in while keeping you parallel to the dock.

I find on different boats, depending on the position of the mid ships cleat, different rudder positions and power setting may be required to get the boat to spring in. Some are so poorly placed, you just cannot make it work. But you've got an outboard that pivots (stern thruster!), but you've got difficult wind/current combo.

Hard to know without exactly what will happen without trying in your boat, in your current on your dock. Once you get the 2 lines on, seems the experiment wouldn't cause harm, and if it works you could possibly eliminate the bow line. If it works your bow line would go slack, and she'd crab in with tension on the spring.

When I had a 52 sometimes I would use a winch to handle a dock line, and found it very helpful. Have to be careful everything run fair, and you don't take out your lifelines, but nothing wrong with using winches IMHO.

 

Seems as the keel is/was broached by the current Rick, would it not be easier to use the rudder hard over? Most boats that I've seen in slips use criss crossed lines to keep the boat in place. bow to stern or port to starboard? Just wondering.

 

One other thought, do exactly the opposite of my last post, turning the motor so that in reverse it pulls the stern to starboard. Same general idea, not sure what would work better.

 

Why are you pulling the boat into the slip in reverse? Why not come bow in first, take your starboard midship line and hook it over the stern dock cleat coming in, turn your rudder to port and power the boat up to the dock.

 

Rick,

I too was wondering why you were backing in. Either way in your set up I would attach my bow line to the first outward cleat on the dock and buy one of those aeirel like whips with a curve on the end and place it where your port spring line cleat on the dock is (middle one).

When leaving the slip walk the port bow line back and place on the end of the ariel whip as it hand over the water into the slip, and it so it is ready to grab when you come into the slip. it should already be the correct length so you wont hit your stern or rudder when you cleat it on the boat.

When backing in I would then grab both of the lines at the same time, Drop the spring over the midship cleat and then walk forward with the the other line and drop it over the bow cleat. Use different colored lines so you can easily figure the difference between the two.

Dave

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try to address everything in one message. Pulling in forward is really not an option because my wife is terrified of going on the foredeck, and doesn't want to take the helm. Backing in allows us to grab the spring line from the cockpit first, and once that's secured I leave the helm and go to the foredeck to do the rest while my wife secures the rest of the lines at the stern. There are also other reasons related to the boat controlling much better in a cross-current when pulling through the fairway in reverse - I thoroughly covered that in another thread last year.

The suggestions about turning the rudder (and motor, since I have a really nice hard link) with forward and/or reverse thrust did not seem to work to move the bow closer to the T-dock. The current was just too strong. I think the keel is broaching, as Denise mentioned. Crossing the stern lines is a problem because I raise the outboard, and the lines can get caught in the prop and/or rub through the paint on the lower unit (I've had both happen on my powerboat before.) The bow is narrow, and the cleats are so close together that crossing them makes no difference except to increase chafing. Fortunately they are floating docks, so we don't need as much slack in the lines, which is another common reason for crossing them.

All this may be academic anyway. I think I'm going to move back to the slip I had last year. I was at the dock today in 17 kt breeze, and not happy with the way the boat was bouncing around. Also, way too much driftwood all the time - you can see in the photo that there's an open fetch and the flood current just pushes all the crap right into my slip. In theory, the ebb should push it back out, but instead it creates a logjam behind my transom and collects there. The brand now paint (Pettit Vivid - a hard paint!) wore off the trailing edge of the rudder at the waterline after only a week!

Also, there's a guy next to me on the outside of the T-dock who's a total a$$, has complained about everything from the position of my shore power cable to the location of my cleats (as if any of this affects him) ,and I suspect he disconnected my shore power the other day to get under my skin. I've never complained about the huge dock box he put at the end of the T, which he obnoxiously located on my side so I can't get to the cleat if I put it on the end of the dock. (This box is clearly visible on the satellite pic above.)

Much as I like having a T-dock for the length of my boat, my old slip was much better protected from both weather, current, and debris. The guy who was in my slip last year left because of a dispute with a neighbor, and I think I've learned the hard way who his dispute was with.

This pic (oriented north-up) shows both my new slip and the one from last year:

 

I should not have mentioned the unpleasant neighbor. The reason I'm moving is really because of the better protection from weather and debris deeper in the fairway. I've dealt with unpleasant neighbors before and that's not really a factor here - I was just venting a bit.

Now that I'm going back to my old slip with only a half-length finger dock on one side, backing in will be a requirement. My boat has no side decks and a high freeboard, so boarding into the cockpit is the only viable option. Hence the need to back in so that the finger docks reach the boarding point.

 

ASA,boat us,and your local power squadron offer good basic docking instruction and classes.
I might suggest you look into this option. The issues your describing here are covered in great detail and the exerienced instructors would be glad to help, I'm sure.
Also, it is suggested that spouses take the classes separately.

 

I've had my own boats for 20 years - took the PS course then. I hired an ASA instructor who taught me to do the things I described in a thread a year ago. We jointly came to the conclusion that it was best to back through the fairway and into the slip.

More courses are not needed. Since I've moved back to my old slip, I will use the same techniques I developed last year.

 

Oh, can't help w/ the neighbor issue, sorry.

 

I'm glad you found a solution to the docking difficulties you were having.

I to have a long history of boat ownership and operation spanning over 35 years in a wide variety of both power and sail in varying locations throughout the US as well as asia.
I do find though ,that a refresher course always has something to offer me and enjoy a new approach as well as a fresh perspective from a different instructor. Never a day passes when I fail to learn another newance of boat handling. I guess that is why, after a considerable time, boating continues to hold my interest.

never to old or too experienced to learn or improve.

 

I'm glad you found a solution to the docking difficulties you were having.

I to have a long history of boat ownership and operation spanning over 35 years in a wide variety of both power and sail in varying locations throughout the US as well as asia.
I do find though ,that a refresher course always has something to offer me and enjoy a new approach as well as a fresh perspective from a different instructor. Never a day passes when I fail to learn another newance of boat handling. I guess that is why, after a considerable time, boating continues to hold my interest.

never to old or too experienced to learn or improve.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with refreshers. I've reread Jobson and the most important parts of Chapman several times, took the BoatEd online course with my kids last year, and did ASA 105 this spring.

But I doubt a course in basic docking would get me an answer to my specific questions. As a practical matter, a basic seamanship course will teach you basic docking skills. However, I am talking about a 3-5 kt currents pushing you into the slip. It is a very complicated situation, as others have pointed out. This is especially true if you are trying to pull into the slip at less than 3 knots, because your SOW is negative while your SOG is positive. Turn your rudder and the boat goes the opposite direction from what you expect. Put the outboard on a hard link in this situation, and you've got the motor pushing your stern in the opposite direction from the rudder. I've practiced these things many many times to master these scenarios, and the current I described in my above post is a good example of this situation.

Having taken a number of group courses, I know how it works. You have a variety of people who boat in different waters (most with mild currents), being taught basic, generic skills. A more advanced question like what to do with a 3 kt current pushing over your port bow quarter into the slip is far more advanced than the instructor has time to address in these group courses. That's why I hired a guy (who later turned out to be my ASA105 instructor) to come out for personal on-site instruction to address my specific need, which he said was one of the most challenging docking scenarios he had seen. I can tell you that nobody on the Chesapeake Bay has to deal with this kind of current on a daily basis. But it's close to home and I've gotten many compliments from the powerboaters on how well I handle my boat in the close quarters. A couple of them also told me that they had been in my slip in past years and moved out because of the same reasons as me - fetch, debris, currents, wakes, and neighbor.

I shared my problem up here so others could offer their tips, so I greatly appreciate the advice everyone provided. Moving back to my previous slip puts me in a situation where I still have strong currents, but less debris, fewer wakes from boaters that ignore the no wake bouys, a little more protection from the wind (depending on its direction), and less of a neighbor problem. But the knowledge shared here is still useful.

 

I have the same issues as Rhythm, 3 marinas down river from him.

The end tees have have fast current with slack water measured in minutes, and a slightly more gentle current closer to land.

I am inside the tee on a narrow fairway with a 6hp outboard.

Returning to the slip against the current is a pleasure, throttle back to just enough speed for slow progress and nudge the finger pier as I come in, step off and secure the spring line, then pull and adjust the bow and stern lines.

Returning single handed with the current is another mater, outboard in reverse or not the boat is charging into the slip at 3kn +. I aim to strike the finger pier with the fender forward of the shrouds, standing holding the shrouds as I come in, step off secure the spring line then grab the bow or stern line before the offending boat end strikes my neighbor.

Gusting winds make the process even more interesting, and I am exposed to 3 miles of open water down river.

 

I can tell you that nobody on the Chesapeake Bay has to deal with this kind of current on a daily basis

.

Rick, maybe thats why some us like keeping our boats on the Chesapeake Bay, we dont want to deal with this

That being said when you have your boat for a long time sooner or later you will be faced with this and similar challenges when docking. We take our boat up to the LI Sound and New England where the currents/ tides are just a strong, where there is greater wind and wave action as well. Tide change where we go up there is 9 ft in some places with a minimum of 6. Even in Kent Narrows (on the Chesapeake) the current runs 4+ knots sometimes.

All of these docking situations make you more experienced and better at handling other situations in the long run. I would never shy away from docking because of the size of the boat. You just learn how to handle it thats all. Most of us who have had boats for a long period of time have had to deal with what you are dealing with. It is why we keep our boats in an area of less turbulence in many ways.

Think of it that you are getting great experience more quickly than most people do .

Dave

 

Docking DVD

I highly recommend Captain Jack Klang's Singlehanded Docking and Sail Trim DVD ...
The key is to use a mid-ship dock line looped around dock cleat and brought back to the helm. Using reverse gear and engine on idle, the boat will be snugged right into the dock.

I am not associated with him or his company ....

he has a web site ... can be found on google

I'd attach a diagram but keep getting error message on upload ???

 

Anybody have a suggestion for docking in strong current? The courses I took and DVD's I have seen all are with minimal or no current.

Two weeks ago I experienced the power of the Delaware River; a large tree propelled in a flood tide struck and sheared off an end tee at my marina, the end tee ended up in a vacant slip in the adjacent marina and the tree lodged against two large powerboats until the tide changed.

The end tee was under repair with all hardware attached for two new steel piles, the piles had been loaded onto the pile barge waiting for low tide.

 

Anybody have a suggestion for docking in strong current? The courses I took and DVD's I have seen all are with minimal or no current.

Two weeks ago I experienced the power of the Delaware River; a large tree propelled in a flood tide struck and sheared off an end tee at my marina, the end tee ended up in a vacant slip in the adjacent marina and the tree lodged against two large powerboats until the tide changed.

The end tee was under repair with all hardware attached for two new steel piles, the piles had been loaded onto the pile barge waiting for low tide.

I don't typically have to deal with strong currents, so this suggestion might not work. I've thought about what I would do and this is a possibility. Control of the boat is when there is water flowing past the rudder. Assuming that the flow is more or less parallel with the slip, you always want (if possible) to have your bow up current. If the current is tending to push you away from slip, go bow first into slip. If current is tending to push you into slip, turn away from slip into current and use engine power to hold your position, but gradually let the water sweep you stern first into the slip. In both of these situations, the movement of the boat will be controlled and slow. Then use the springline to amidships cleat (or shroud base) to hold the boat while you get other lines on. If the water is turbulent, you might have trouble holding the boat. If the water is a strong cross current relative to the slip, it gets real tricky. Kind of like my problems with crosswind. In this case, you are going to contact whatever is beside you most likely before you can get the springline into play. In this case, put some fenders permanently on your home pier/pilings so that the contact will be cushioned. Otherwise, as someone has suggested, maybe you have to anchor out or go to another slip. Just a thought.....hope it helps.

 

sometimes its not worth it

One of the best boat handlers I know gave me some sage advice early on. This guy worked a lifetime at marina's, and had years of experience moving boats from small to 100'+ in all kinds of conditions.

1 When you approach or leave a dock have a plan and a backup plan. The backup plan is for an escape if things don't go according to plan. If the gauntlet is so tight, that a backup plan is not possible, wait for ideal conditions.

2 Sometimes, it's just not worth trying. Wind and current conditions are such that the risk is too high. When this happens, wait, or go someplace else.

I think the OP made a good decision, which reflects favorably on his experience and seamanship.

 

One of the best boat handlers I know gave me some sage advice early on. This guy worked a lifetime at marina's, and had years of experience moving boats from small to 100'+ in all kinds of conditions.

1 When you approach or leave a dock have a plan and a backup plan. The backup plan is for an escape if things don't go according to plan. If the gauntlet is so tight, that a backup plan is not possible, wait for ideal conditions.

2 Sometimes, it's just not worth trying. Wind and current conditions are such that the risk is too high. When this happens, wait, or go someplace else.

I think the OP made a good decision, which reflects favorably on his experience and seamanship.

I second that. In my marina, the tidal currents can go up to 7 knots. There is almost always a strong breeze too. Everybody I talked to the marina has accepted the fact that we only go out at slack time and come back at a slack time.

My last attempt to go out was a couple of hours before the slack. This being my first boat and with little experience, I trusted my experienced friend's judgement. Turns out he didn't have a plan much less a backup plan. He just untied the lines, I reversed and with the strong prop walk I have, we were turned and pushed back to the fingers towards other boats sideways. We leaned on another boat's tender and with full forward, we were able to escape without damage to anything. Lesson learned, I take anybody's guidance with a grain of salt now. Wait for the right conditions and have a plan for departure and arrival. My marina is just not a place where you can take your boat out for a couple of hours sailing anytime you want.

 

I usually leave the slip at or near slack, even with some current departures are relatively easy. Return with the current is sometimes too interesting but doable, today I chicken out.

Slack water at 2:00 PM but gusting winds to 25 at 90deg to the finger pier with white water, returning to the slip even with no current would be asking for trouble.



The peaks are between 25 and 30

So cleaned the cockpit and had a beer.

 

I was thinking of taking the afternoon off work to sail, but saw the trees just blowing around out my office window and decided it would be too much. I'm hoping tomorrow afternoon is a little tamer.

What site has the graphical data that you posted? I poked around NWS and WUG, but could not find the data presented in that way.

 

Graphic from SailFlow.com - xt_Atl_NY,NJ Wind Data wind prediction and actual, also has tidal current model, but only up to the Cohansey Creek on the Delaware Bay.

The graphic I pasted is is for Philadelphia Airport.