[bobperry]

I like outboard rudders. If they are well designed they can be as strong as any other rudder. I think Tom gave you a very good overview on outboard rudders based on a lot of experience.


I had one on my own last boat. The boat backed up like a champ.
I like them because they are salty!

 

[capta]

As far as I can see on a smaller boat like the one in the picture it is neither good nor bad. As a boat get larger and ventures farther offshore, an outboard rudder is a lot more difficult to use as it is a one to one ratio. However, I love outboard rudders for offshore cruising because it is so cheap and easy to build on a reliable windvane that works superlatively, a major plus.

 

[bobperry]

Capta:
I agree with you.
One thing about an outboard rudder is that it gets the head of the tiller out of the cockpit and this can free up cockpit space. It also moves the rudder planform aft and on a small boat this can help with directional stability. On a big boat with wheel steering there are some ways to control the outbpoard rudder but I have never seen one that I thought was not a bit clumsy. You have far more steering options with an inboard rudder.

The outboard rudder on my own 26'er was absolutely perfect.

 

[Brent Swain]

With an inboard rudder you lose the most useful streering option of all, steering via trimtab either for a vane , manual steering, or inside steering. I dont see any options lost with an outboard rudder.
An ex airforce friend mentioned a large cargo plane which was totally controled by trimtabs. At rest, all the control surfaces hung down, and only came to life as the plane started moving. It was so powerful that they had to put in some resistance, as a pilot could easily rip the wings off, without realizing how much force he was putting them under.

 

[bobperry]

Great Brent. I comforted to know you and I still disagree on just about everything.

You have to move the rudder. When you do you will need something to connect it to the wheel. With an inboard rudder you will have more options in this area.
Maybe not in Swainland but in the rest of the world it works like that. I suggest you take a lok at any Edson Catalog. There are lots of steering arrangement options in the catalog. I know that you would probably prefer welding something of your own design up but lots and lots of sailors use Edson.

 

[Classic30]

Capta:
I agree with you.
One thing about an outboard rudder is that it gets the head of the tiller out of the cockpit and this can free up cockpit space. It also moves the rudder planform aft and on a small boat this can help with directional stability.
......

Bob, right there are the reasons, AIUI, that Joe Adams used an outboard rudder for his highly-successful 'Adams 20' design late last century. That's 66 feet of racing yacht capable of +20 knots hour after hour in strong winds and a Tasman ocean swell.

Not sure I'd call a 66ft boat "small", but it's a relative term I suppose..

 

[jak3b]

The Adams 13 had an outboard rudder as well.
The Adams 13 Metre Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

 

[Classic30]

The Adams 13 had an outboard rudder as well.
The Adams 13 Metre Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

Many of Adam's designs did, especially his racers.. but the '20 was the largest of them all.

He seemed to believe that an outboard rudder was best for a racing yacht and an inboard rudder on a cruising yacht. Modern racing yacht design seems to have moved away from that now due to the 'ventilation' issues described by Rich.. but it hasn't necessarily made any difference in winning races.

 

[Morild]

I eventually took ownership of a Nordship 808 with the external rudder.
After having sailed it during the summer i love it. It responds like a dinghy and allows for easy manuouvering in the habours.
Thanks for great advice.
I have enclosed a picture of the night in June when I took ownership of "Nordild"

 

[bobperry]

Looks very nice to me.

 

[Barquito]

Thanks for the follow-up. I like to see questions asked, answered, and verified in the real world... you haven't ventilated your rudder while heeled over, or broken it from a following sea, I hope?

 

[Morild]

Looks very nice to me.

Has been very nice to sail so far Bob
The boat was designed by a danish designer Jan Kjaerulf, who died about 8 years ago. He designed a lot of succesfull boats in his career, and with this I am very happy

 

[Morild]

Thanks for the follow-up. I like to see questions asked, answered, and verified in the real world... you haven't ventilated your rudder while heeled over, or broken it from a following sea, I hope?

First, I posted because I like to see follow-ups on questions asked, so I felt that it was a good idea, even though it is an old thread.
Ventilated... uhm yes maybe a bit but nothing broken, and the mounts are very solid so I feel quite confident about that part.

 

[AlaskaMC]

Capta:
I agree with you.
One thing about an outboard rudder is that it gets the head of the tiller out of the cockpit and this can free up cockpit space. It also moves the rudder planform aft and on a small boat this can help with directional stability. On a big boat with wheel steering there are some ways to control the outbpoard rudder but I have never seen one that I thought was not a bit clumsy. You have far more steering options with an inboard rudder.

The outboard rudder on my own 26'er was absolutely perfect.

So that is Perrywinkle. I have heard you mention the boat but never seen a pic. Very nice! What happened to her?

Oh yea, that was a hijack. I have a barn door on the back of my boat. Works great. Love it.

 

[barefootnavigator]

To anyone out there who's boat is suffering from weather helm I can help.
Tune your rig, if that doesn't work buy new sails, if that doesn't work learn to shape and trim your sails. if that doesn't if that doesn't work buy a new boat the guy who designed yours was completely incompetent. I'm just saying...it isn't rocket science.

 

[socal c25]

To anyone out there who's boat is suffering from weather helm I can help.
Tune your rig, if that doesn't work buy new sails, if that doesn't work learn to shape and trim your sails. if that doesn't if that doesn't work buy a new boat the guy who designed yours was completely incompetent. I'm just saying...it isn't rocket science.

YES... Number one cause of weather helm is over trimmed sails, Two is an improperly tuned rig.

 

[Morild]

Here is a short video from last sunday, with the rudder doi'n it's job upwind