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Water tank cleaning

10K views 24 replies 12 participants last post by  wsmurdoch  
#1 ·
Hi All,

I'm a new PCS 34 owner (1994 #284). The vessel is in very good condition, with just a few items that I'm working on (most are upgrades, but this one is remedial).

I have removed one of the two inspection ports and discovered that my aft fresh water tank has a significant amount of algae on the inner surface of the tank (probably also on the forward tank, but I haven't inspected that one yet). By significant, I mean that I can still see about 50% of the tank wall coating, but it's slimy and the rest is green algae on it. While I can reach much of it from the inspection port (and once I open the aft inspection port, most of the rest), I'm thinking that it might be easier and a more thorough cleaning of the tank by removing the entire lid to the tank. I'll also be able to clean up the underside of the lid. There are about 40 screws that hold the lid and it's bedded in some type of sealant.

So, my questions are:

Is it advisable to remove the entire lid, or am I figuratively opening a can of worms?

If removing the lid isn't looking for trouble, what type of bedding compound should be used to reseal the lid?

I'm planning on replacing as much of the waterline as I can (especially the clear reinforced PVC). Any advise on best type of line to use?

Lastly, I'm considering putting in a whole boat filter. Any suggestions on brand?

Any other advise?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

-- Bill
 
#3 ·
Bill,

You might want to take a look at two of our short YouTube videos. The first shows what we use to filter ALL water that goes into our tanks. We got it for water in Mexico, but now use it ALL the time and it has saved our bacon a few times when mud was coming out of the dock!!!!
It's at;

The second video shows our final filter we use for all drinking/cooking water. It's a low cost option and works very well. Se that one at;

I have cleaned our tank a few times with a dowel rod and cloth on the end. The stuff was not hard to remove.

Greg
 
#4 · (Edited)
So, my questions are:

Is it advisable to remove the entire lid, or am I figuratively opening a can of worms?

If removing the lid isn't looking for trouble, what type of bedding compound should be used to reseal the lid?

I'm planning on replacing as much of the waterline as I can (especially the clear reinforced PVC). Any advise on best type of line to use?

Lastly, I'm considering putting in a whole boat filter. Any suggestions on brand?

Any other advise?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

-- Bill
Do you have wooden or pvc lids?

Removing the lids is not too bad of a job, but a long handled brush may be easier.

Here are the factory instructions on reinstalling you lids:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/pacif...fic-seacraft/64218-replacing-water-tank-lids.html#/forumsite/20526/topics/64218

The system we have evolved for filtering water:

1) full a clear gallon jug with the water. Let it rest. If it looks and smells good, proceed.
2) use a 30 micron sediment filter on all the water entering the boat. Add a tablespoon of bleach to the tank for each 20 gallons.
3) at the sink all water goes through a 10 micron activated charcoal filter.
4) drinking water (separate tap) goes through a DOULTON W9223021 Ceramic Filter
 
#6 ·
Please let us know how it goes. I wouldn't attempt this myself. I'm guessing that the lid will be a lot harder to get off than it may appear at first, and that it might be easy to damage it in the process. If it doesn't leak, I'd say leave it alone and use the access holes (those are easy to reseal; just use clear silicone). But maybe I'm wrong about this. I hope so, especially if you have started the job. Good luck!

I always chuckle a bit when I hear of all the fancy stuff people have on their boats. I have a water filter for use when I'm temporarily beside the rich folks in marinas, but almost all of the time I'm lugging water in jugs. I make sure it's clean when putting it into the jugs, so there's no need for filters. As for the last time I had access to water at a dock, that was from a 2" hose blasting about a hundred gallons a second. Try filtering that! (Yes, as you guessed, that dock normally supplies much larger vessels. I'll take what I can get.)
 
#8 ·
I cleaned out both water tanks on my 34 a couple of weeks ago. I used the inspection ports and it wasn't all that difficult to reach all the nooks and crannies. I'd be surprised if removing the lids and resealing them would be easier. By far the longest part of cleaning out the tanks was removing the old sealant from the inspection covers - some nasty black stuff that never entirely set. I'm thinking of using soft rubber gaskets to replace the sealant to allow for easier access to the tanks. And then there is of course all the tubing...
 
#10 · (Edited)
Chlorine, a strong oxidizing agent, is destructive to the typical polyamide RO membranes used in 'watermakers'.
Chlorination of the tank water is desirable as RO membranes are not 100% retention devices (due to manufacturing defects, cracks, etc.) and do pass small amounts of (can be pathogenic) bacteria, etc. which will eventually grow into sometimes large colonies in the boat's water tank.

1. There must be an 'air gap' in the delivery system between the output of the RO (permeate) to the tank. This prevents any possibility of retrograde flow / migration of the chlorine ions in the water to independently backflow into the membrane via the 'drive' by chemical equilibrium.
2. Produced RO water (permeate) is often used to 'pickle' (disinfect for long term inactivity/storage) the RO membrane when adding various 'metabisulphite', etc. compounds. If the tank water contains any chlorine, it cannot be used. For adding 'pickling' or other membrane 'disinfection, cleaning and regeneration' chemicals, a separate tank (usually a 5 gallon bucket etc. on a boat) is used to isolate the chlorine free RO water to which one adds these chemicals and which are then returned/injected to the membrane.
3. The concentration of chlorine in the boat's tank should be somewhere in the range of 1-2 parts per million (4 oz. 'clorox' per 100 gallons) to retard bacterial, etc. growth.

FWIW - Here's the URL of a typical Filmtec SWRO membrane 'technical manual' (more than you'll ever need to successfully operate an onboard RO system): https://www.che.utah.edu/department...department_equipment/Projects_Lab/M_Ultrafiltration/MAN_RO_Technical_Manual.pdf
 
#13 ·
Chlorination of the tank water is desirable as RO membranes are not 100% retention devices (due to manufacturing defects, cracks, etc.) and do pass small amounts of (can be pathogenic) bacteria, etc. which will eventually grow into sometimes large colonies in the boat's water tank.
I think this is key. No matter how carefully you source your water, as soon as I goes in your tank it starts bacteria farming. That is why adding bleach, then removing it with a tap filter for drinking water, is important to prevent illness.
 
#11 ·
RichH IS the expert! And should be the "GO TO" guy on the water maker subject.

Water makers require a fresh water flush depending on your usage, or lack of. We do have a carbon block filter for the RO flush, but I was always worried about the chlorine, so never used any. The PUR final filter (at the sink) never let us down and we can say in years of cruising we have never had any fresh water (from our tanks) gave us ANY problems and always taste good.

Greg
 
#12 ·
Thank you, everyone. I'm so happy to know that there is such a wealth of knowledge on the forum. I'm learning a lot, and I know I still have a lot to learn. Over the last 40 years or so I've sailed on board a lot of different boats, but have never owned my own. It's a different world.

It was cool last night, so I went to the boat and removed the lid. Lantau, part way through the job, there is no doubt that I began to doubt the wisdom in removing the entire lid. However, it took about an hour or so of careful prying with a couple of small screwdrivers and cutting as much of the silicone as I could reach with a sharp knife.

Below is a photo of the tank with the lid removed. I think I may have underestimated the amount of algae and crud on the walls of the tank. Interestingly, there doesn't appear to be any growth or slim on the bottom side of the PVC lid.


Rich, my long range plan is to do some cruising and at that point I might be installing a water maker. However, before inspecting the tank, I had shocked the tank (thinking that would be an easy fix). So chlorine has already been introduced into the system. I suspect that a PO has likely shocked the tanks as well. Would that eliminate the possibility of using that tank with an RO?

-- Bill
 
#14 ·
Rich, my long range plan is to do some cruising and at that point I might be installing a water maker. However, before inspecting the tank, I had shocked the tank (thinking that would be an easy fix). So chlorine has already been introduced into the system. I suspect that a PO has likely shocked the tanks as well. Would that eliminate the possibility of using that tank with an RO?

-- Bill
The residual chlorine will eventually react and combine with the internal tank surfaces and piping .... essentially will disappear as 'free' chlorine.
 
#16 ·
I don't know what the surface coating is on the tank. It is original to the boat and given that everything else I know about PS construction suggests that they do things correctly, this could be an oversight. Are there any former PS (California plant) employees on the forum that might know? Barring that, I may call and check to see if Thumper at PS (North Carolina) knows. Since I already have the lid off, I may as well do things properly if the coating is simply gelcoat.

-- Bill
 
#17 ·
I'm quite certain that the interior of my PS37 tanks are coated with epoxy -- the same stuff coating many interior spaces to prevent mold from growing (wish they did that inside the chain locker).

The idea of drinking water from the tank has never appealed to me, so I bring bottled water (also from plastic, so maybe also bad for me!). That said, I have drunk from the tanks with no obvious effect other than feeling disgusted by the slight plastic-like taste. Once I flushed the tanks with vinegar and that taste went away completely.

Regarding bleach, isn't more or less the same stuff in regular drinking water? Every time you put in water, unless it's rainwater or from a tap in a developing country, it's going to have chlorine. In other words, isn't it impossible to avoid the stuff in our tanks? What I'd like to know is how much extra chlorine I need. I never add it and my tanks stay very clean in appearance (just a very faint light tan sheen develops over time, and that wipes off easily -- never anything remotely as bad as in elliowb's photo). Admittedly, I've no idea what invisible stuff is growing in there, so I may need more chlorine to make it truly safe to drink.
 
#18 ·
I think that the tank in my PSC34 has an epoxy coating on it as well. At least it seems to be slightly different from the other gelcoat interior liners.

Now that I have it all cleaned up, I have discovered another potential problem. I think I know the correct answer, that being to recoat the interior with a food safe epoxy. However, I'm not sure that it's a major issue. The problem is that there are some minor spider cracks in the coating. I'm not sure why they have occurred, as it doesn't appear that any of the other liners back aft have any spider cracks (maybe this is also a hint that the coating in the tank is not gelcoat, but rather some sort of less flexible epoxy).

The cracks don't appear to be all that deep. They aren't of a size such that any substrate is visible. A knife blade can't even fit into them. Does anyone have experience with this sort of problem?

-- Bill
 

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#24 ·
How did you reattach the lid to the tank? Mine sprung a leak from over filling it. I think the best recourse is to take the whole thing off and reseal it.

I think that the tank in my PSC34 has an epoxy coating on it as well. At least it seems to be slightly different from the other gelcoat interior liners.

Now that I have it all cleaned up, I have discovered another potential problem. I think I know the correct answer, that being to recoat the interior with a food safe epoxy. However, I'm not sure that it's a major issue. The problem is that there are some minor spider cracks in the coating. I'm not sure why they have occurred, as it doesn't appear that any of the other liners back aft have any spider cracks (maybe this is also a hint that the coating in the tank is not gelcoat, but rather some sort of less flexible epoxy).

The cracks don't appear to be all that deep. They aren't of a size such that any substrate is visible. A knife blade can't even fit into them. Does anyone have experience with this sort of problem?

-- Bill
 
#19 ·
Spider cracks?

I have a small spiderweb / bulls-eye crazing in my bow water tank. It's about two inches across. I'm pretty sure it happened when we sailed into a partially-submerged timber when returning from Hawaii (Japanese tsunami debris? Escaped log from the Pacific Northwest?). There was no obvious mark on the hull when we hauled out the following year for an insurance survey and bottom-painting, but later when I was inspecting the tank I noticed it.

Since the water doesn't taste salty, and there's no external mark, I'm not too worried about it. I am glad that Pacific Seacraft put the bow tank where they did, as it makes a decent watertight crash bulkhead. Had the log punctured the hull the tank would have saved us. At least in this instance!
 

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#21 ·
Hello,

I also had the problem with algae in my GRP (fiberglass) water tanks. Only after I had removed the lid, which was also fixed with some 50 screws, I was able to thoroughly clean it. Only after cleaning I found that there are many spider cracks and especially the rails for the wash boards had big cracks going down into the wood forming the inner part of the rail. So there was no question I had to fill the cracks.
In this blog post of me you can see the pictures of the tanks before renovation:
janprahm.de/die-fertigstellung-ist-in-sicht

It took me a lot of time, filler and sanding paper but eventually I had tanks looking almost new.

And here you can the tanks after renovation:

janprahm.de/wassertanks-fertig-zum-einbau

For the final layers I used food prof epysy paint which I ordered in France.

For the resealing the lid I finally used Sikaflex because nothing else would make it reliably water tight.

I hope this helps a little bit
 
#23 ·
This is from an article from an expert. Take from it what you want. Im shareing this to help out understanding if water systems not to get ridiculed or cause arguments so like I said... take what you want leave what you dont.

This is all it takes to keep onboard water safe, and tasting/smelling as good as any that comes out of faucets on land: Fresh water system problems--foul odor or taste--are typically caused by allowing water to stagnate in the system. Although most people think only in terms of the tank, the plumbing is actually the source of most foul water, because the molds, mildew, fungi and bacteria which cause it thrive in damp dark places, not under water. Many people?and even some boat manufacturers?believe that keeping the tanks empty reduce the problem, but an empty water tank only provides another damp dark home for those ?critters.?** There are all kinds of products sold that claim to keep onboard water fresh, but all that?s really necessary is an annual or in especially warm climates, semi-annual recommissioning of the entire system?tank and plumbing.*

The following recommendations conform to section 10.8 in the A-1 192 code covering electrical, plumbing, and heating of recreational vehicles. The solution is approved and recommended by competent health officials.* It may be used in a new system a used one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have been contaminated. Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete.* Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of ice?the bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded.*

1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/2 cup (4 oz) Clorox or Purex household bleach (5% sodium Hypochlorite solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity.*
2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain **** until air has been released and the entire system is filled.* Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines*
3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours. 4. Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat.*
5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vehicle motion.*
6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by fill the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water.*

People have expressed concern about using this method to recommission aluminum tanks. While bleach (chlorine) IS corrosive, it?s effects are cumulative.* So the effect of an annual or semi-annual "shock treatment" is negligible compared to the cumulative effect of holding chlorinated city water in the tank for years. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to mix the total amount of bleach in a few gallons of water before putting it into either a stainless or aluminum tank. People have also expressed concern about the potential damage to rubber and neoprene water pump parts. Again?the cumulative effect of carrying chlorinated water is far more damaging over time than the occasional ?shock treatment.? And it?s that cumulative effect that makes it a VERY bad idea to add a little bleach to each fill.* Not only does it damage the system, but unless you add enough to make your water taste and smell like a laundry, it?s not enough to do any good.* Even if it were, any ?purifying? properties in chlorine evaporate within 24 hours, leaving behind only the corrosive properties.*

An annual or semi-annual recommissioning according to the above directions is all that should be necessary to keep your water tasting and smelling as good as anything that comes out of any faucet on land.* If you need to improve on that, install a water filter. Just remember that a filter is not a substitute for cleaning out the system, and that filters require regular inspection and cleaning or replacement. To keep the water system cleaner longer, use your fresh water...keep water flowing through system. The molds, fungi, and bacteria only start to grow in hoses that aren't being used.*

Before filling the tank each time, always let the dock water run for at least 15 minutes first...the same critters that like the lines on your boat LOVE the dock supply line and your hose that sit in the warm sun, and you certainly don't want to transfer water that's been sitting in the dock supply line to your boat's system. So let the water run long enough to flush out all the water that's been standing in them so that what goes into your boat is coming straight from the water main.*

Finally, while the molds, fungi and bacteria in onboard water systems here in the US may not be pleasant, we're dealing only with aesthetics...water purity isn't an issue here--or in most developed nations...the water supply has already been purified (unless you're using well-water). However, when cruising out of the country, it's a good idea to know what you're putting in your tanks...and if you're in any doubt, boil all water that's to be drunk or used to wash dishes, and/or treat each tankful to purify. It's even more important in these areas to let the water run before putting it in the tank, because any harmful bacteria will REALLY proliferate in water hoses left sitting on the dock. "
 
#25 ·
I'm assuming that you now have leaks in the joint between the tank's flat top and the fiberglass lower surface of either the port side of the v-berth or the quarter berth. There have been at least three different materials used for the tank tops, The first was plywood with a Formica laminate for its lower surface, second was a gray 1/2" thick solid PVC, and the most recent was a fiberglass lay up. If you have the first, it's past time to replace it. The second is okay, and you can make it yourself. (It is what i have.) The third is thought to be the best, and PSC can make it for you.

The holding tank and water tank are about the same.

Lots to read.

The factory instructions for installing the covers is in Post 11.

Bill Murdoch
1988 PSC 34
Irish Eyes