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the funny thing is people say full keels are slow in low winds but my contest is much slower in low winds than my folkboat was, my contest literally will not move until we get small craft advisories. I guess it that conservative north sea rig.
the folkboat is not a SLOW boat...it is a very fast boat for its size once you consider how well it tolerates high winds and when you consider half weight is ballast...

in san francisco bay, when every body hunkers in after 30 knots...I remember being out there full sails and all heeled over to hell not once even thinking I was unsafe...thats cause I sailed her like a dinghy...which I had experience in...

surprisingly enough most big boats are the first ones to seek harbor, why, their owners are afraid of the big sails...which to a certain degree is true

on my folkboat if I ever had to I could lower sails in seconds by pullin a downhaul that I had for my jib from the cockpit...and the main just fell by itself...

OP Im sorry for the thread deviation...I hope you find a perfect boat...there are many too chose from as you can see from here jajaja

christian
 
other great boats to look at(small and capable)

DUFOUR ARPEGE(fin bulb keel in 1968! ja)
bristol 27, 29
contessa 32(great reputation in europe, expensive though)
cheoy lee offshore cadet and 29(spinoff of the h28)
YANKEE 30 great offshore (my dream boat when I was younger)

just some others to look at in marinas:

the yankee 30´s are fin and skeg hung rudder they are massively built, small for a 30fteer, designed well by stephens, and have awesome upwind heavy weather performance...
 
aaron sailor...look at these boats on latitude38 just for an idea: this month there are 4 or 5 boats we mentioned that are great little cruising boats

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing and Marine Magazine

that cheoy lee fixer upper is exactly my kind of project boat...fiberglass hull and nice sprice masts...
 
Oh yeah i forgot the rawson would be awesome. Rawson's were super heaily built, and if you can find a pilothouse it would serve you well if you decide to go further.
if you can live with the fact that they started the whole BATHTUB glass boat look you are fine

thats what my dad told me when he was a yachtbroker and sailed on one! jajaja

they are awesome budget cruisers..I almost got one but I really disliked the bathtub cockpit...I guess some teak trim and color would help.

they are roomy have short masts, and they are perfect for a a couple of young guys

I think they are an inch thick hand laid glass hull all around...MASSIVE
 
the yankee 30´s are fin and skeg hung rudder they are massively built, small for a 30fteer, designed well by stephens, and have awesome upwind heavy weather performance...
I think it is better to say that they are narrow for a 30 footer. The beam is not much over 8', when most other 30 footers have 9-10'.

The interior isn't too small. It has a few nice features, there is a lot of built in storage (drawers everywhere, plus a hanging locker) and the cabin house extends all the way forward to the V-berth, so you can stand up in the V-berth unlike many other 30 footers. At it's fullest you have 2 double berths (V-berth and lowered dinette) plus two single person berths (settee and pilot berth above). Both of my friends Yankee 30s have had the pilot berths removed.

It's a little bit of a wet ride to windward due to lowish freeboard, but sails really nicely. Lots of ballast and a heavy boat, but the mast is also tall to compensate.

The long fin keel hove's to nicely, I discovered this yesterday when sailing on a friend's Y30. My Pearson 28-2 (high aspect fin keel for a cruising boat) still moves forward at about 2 knots when hove-to in 15-20 knot winds. We were able to get the Yankee 30 to get down to about half a knot. Something about the hull design (narrow waterline or long keel and skeg rudder) make it easier to steer the boat with the sails than most, and allow you to leave the tiller alone for extended periods of time (no autopilot) while the boat sails in a perfectly straight line.

They were really well built with one gotcha. The deck core extends all the way to the edge of the deck, so there is a lot of surface area for water to get into. They are also 40 year old boats. As a result a lot of Yankee 30s have at least some moisture in the deck that needs to be taken care of. Another annoyance is that like many 1971-1973 boats they often have Lewmar winches with non-standard sized winch handles. Getting new winch handles for those is extremely difficult.

Yesterday I sailed on a Yankee 30 and then my Pearson 28-2 back to back in the same conditions (around 15 knots of wind, 1-2 foot wind waves). It was interesting comparing the two. The sea motion of the Yankee 30 is better and the Yankee 30 with blown out sails was pointing about the same as my Pearson 28-2 with much better sails (new genoa, old but much better main). The Y30 has a max-prop and no dodger, both of which would help with pointing. The Pearson had a drier ride, probably from the extra 6" or so of freeboard. However the flatter bottom of the Pearson makes it lift over waves instead of driving through them, so the ride was rougher.

It's fun having so many sailboat designs to compare and contrast.
 
Interesting thread. But I am late and everything that needs to be said has been said, but I will throw in my 2c worth anyway. :)

Any well found old boat will do.

We love our Vega (She heaves to just fine, thank you) but a Triton or Alberg in the same condition would suffice just as well for the OPs purpose. :cool:
 
I think it is better to say that they are narrow for a 30 footer. The beam is not much over 8', when most other 30 footers have 9-10'.

The interior isn't too small. It has a few nice features, there is a lot of built in storage (drawers everywhere, plus a hanging locker) and the cabin house extends all the way forward to the V-berth, so you can stand up in the V-berth unlike many other 30 footers. At it's fullest you have 2 double berths (V-berth and lowered dinette) plus two single person berths (settee and pilot berth above). Both of my friends Yankee 30s have had the pilot berths removed.

It's a little bit of a wet ride to windward due to lowish freeboard, but sails really nicely. Lots of ballast and a heavy boat, but the mast is also tall to compensate.

The long fin keel hove's to nicely, I discovered this yesterday when sailing on a friend's Y30. My Pearson 28-2 (high aspect fin keel for a cruising boat) still moves forward at about 2 knots when hove-to in 15-20 knot winds. We were able to get the Yankee 30 to get down to about half a knot. Something about the hull design (narrow waterline or long keel and skeg rudder) make it easier to steer the boat with the sails than most, and allow you to leave the tiller alone for extended periods of time (no autopilot) while the boat sails in a perfectly straight line.

They were really well built with one gotcha. The deck core extends all the way to the edge of the deck, so there is a lot of surface area for water to get into. They are also 40 year old boats. As a result a lot of Yankee 30s have at least some moisture in the deck that needs to be taken care of. Another annoyance is that like many 1971-1973 boats they often have Lewmar winches with non-standard sized winch handles. Getting new winch handles for those is extremely difficult.

Yesterday I sailed on a Yankee 30 and then my Pearson 28-2 back to back in the same conditions (around 15 knots of wind, 1-2 foot wind waves). It was interesting comparing the two. The sea motion of the Yankee 30 is better and the Yankee 30 with blown out sails was pointing about the same as my Pearson 28-2 with much better sails (new genoa, old but much better main). The Y30 has a max-prop and no dodger, both of which would help with pointing. The Pearson had a drier ride, probably from the extra 6" or so of freeboard. However the flatter bottom of the Pearson makes it lift over waves instead of driving through them, so the ride was rougher.

It's fun having so many sailboat designs to compare and contrast.
you sir are very correct...but compared to a catalina 30 which they are often for some reason they have much less space, again for lack of beam mostly

I also forgot ONE huge plus about the yankee 30 is the inboard is placed midships which makes for FULL access for engine work

in cold climates this also makes for a nice cabin heater...

the reason why engine midships makes sense is it makes the boat handle better as weight is amidships where the keel and all havy items SHOULD be

this also helps with performance to windward

ever notice why crews on racers scoot up towards the jib when racing is cause you want the weight to help attack any chop and to also lighten rudder "weight" action...same applies for an engine in a boat

if you had a full rear tank of gas, engine aft, plus all the stuff cruisers love to put on a boat all aft you performance upwind will suck, BUT you probably wont have a stalled rudder going downwind its all a game!

jajaja:)
 
1860 since you have more experience in a Vega than all of us put together I would love to hear your input good and bad. BTW I sailed into Fish Bay this summer and there was a fleet of BEAUTIFUL Vegas here :)
There are two things about the Vega that I would call "Bad". Both are easily fixed.

The first one is the large port lights in the main cabin. They need to be either replaced with stronger port lights or protected with shutters as they can be knocked in by seas. The rubber gaskets that hold them in are also a chronic source of leaks when they begin to deteriorate.

The second thing is the interior. Really a matter of opinion, the stock interior meets the marketing department's requirement to be able to say "Sleeps four". However, the interior joinery on a Vega can be removed entirely or in part with nothing but a screwdriver. The interior layout is easily modified. We changed the port side bunk into a dinette, a common modification. We have seen quarter berths added, a navigator's station replacing the cook stove near the companionway and the cooker moved forward, a workshop in the forward cabin, etc.

When you are talking about forty year old boats, it is all about the condition of the individual vessel. Since there were about five times as many Vegas built as Tritons, (IIRC) I would think that it would be easier to find a good Vega at a good price.
 
Oh yeah i forgot the rawson would be awesome. Rawson's were super heaily built, and if you can find a pilothouse it would serve you well if you decide to go further.
The Rawsons are built like tanks... unfortunately they sail relatively like tanks too!:p.. If you decide on one of these, make sure it has the bow sprit modification or you'll be holding the tiller to your chest most days.;)
 
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you sir are very correct...but compared to a catalina 30 which they are often for some reason they have much less space, again for lack of beam mostly
Almost everything 30' has less interior space than a Catalina 30. Catalina and Frank Butler are expert in making a huge interior for a given hull length.

I also forgot ONE huge plus about the yankee 30 is the inboard is placed midships which makes for FULL access for engine work
Engine access is quite nice, but it does have some downsides. The prop is very near the center of the boat (it is just behind the keel) so it doesn't wash as nicely over the rudder and give you as good of steering control under power. The prop shaft is also on a diagonal so the boat wants to turn under power. You can't let go of the tiller under power and go in a straight line, it's the opposite of how the boat is when sailing.

Access to the engine on the Yankee 30 is fractionally better than engine access on my Pearson 28-2. On my Pearson I get full access to the top, back and front of the engine. The sides are hard to get to. On the Yankee 30 you get full access to the top, front, and starboard side. I haven't worked on inboards on other boats, so I can't really compare one way or the other. Given the tradeoffs (especially handling under power) I prefer the engine location on my Pearson.
 
again true points...

since I had an offset prop on my h28 the yankee 30 was much less and didnt bother me as much

when I was cruising I wnet aboard a really nice yankee 30 in santa barbara and loved it

my huge plus for the inboard was LOCATION, that is what sold me on the smart design, not just access...

weight amidships is better than all aft or the last 20% or so of the waterline...
 
weight amidships is better than all aft or the last 20% or so of the waterline...
I'd agree completely if that was the alternative. My Pearson has the engine around station 6 (60% back from the bow), the Yankee has it around station 4.

I hadn't realized how far aft some boats were putting the engine. Pacific Seacraft Orion (another nice sailing boat that a friend owns, but farther on the cruiser spectrum than what I want for my personal boat) has the engine very far aft.
 
lastly these boats are great as when heeled over their waterline increases dramatically and they become much better performers when doing so...learn to sail your boat like the designer intended!
Very true on the Pearsons. I crew on an old Pearson Vanguard (33'/ 10K Displacement) and her best point of sail is a beam reach. Downwind is quite literally dead downwind, so we often tack downwind to gain extra speed and VMG.
 
I read these threads and I am always somewhat baffled. I grew up sailing many of these boats when they were new boats and have sailed on them in a broad range of of conditions in the 50 years since. While it is possible for a skilled skipper to sail almost anything around the world, I am totally baffled to see a thread recommending doing any serious distance cruising on some of these designs.

Compared to some of the much better designs which followed, boats like the Triton, Alberg 30, Vanguard, Luders 33, Seabreeze, and Alberg 35 were miserable boats to sail; rolly, tender, wet, slow, massive weather helm producing anachronisms. My family owned a Vanguard, it was a miserable boat in heavy air, and useless in light going without a 170% genoa. Have any of you tried to beat in heavy seas in an Alberg 35. What a nightmare- going from knockdown on the crest to rolling the stick out in the trough, to coming to a near stop trying to crest a steep wave.

These boats were never intended to be distance cruisers. They were designed as race boats and coastal cruisers. And yes, these boats were intended to be heeled to increase their waterline lengths to beat an ill conceived racing rule, and not as much as they heel without a skilled race crew. These boats were raced with crews on the rail, an a mainsail trimmer constantly adjusting the mainsail to maintain a 15-20 degree heel angle. Cruiser tend to sail these boats on their ear since they don't have weight on the rail. The result of heeling these boats is massive weather helm. The alternative to that is carrying too little sail area to over come their high drag. Both results in slow passage times but at least the too little sail area option is easier on the crew.

"Originally Posted by christian.hess
lastly these boats are great as when heeled over their waterline increases dramatically and they become much better performers when doing so...learn to sail your boat like the designer intended!"

In direct conversation with Phil Rhodes, my father was told that Vanguards should be sailed at 15 degrees of heel but Pearson did not put in the ballast as designed so they were tender. We added the suggested ballast which helped some.

But back to the original poster. I grew up in the 1960's with a rule of thumb that a distance cruiser should have displacement of approximately 5500 to 11,000 lbs per person. If you have 3 people that would suggest a minimum displacement of around 16500 lbs. That would suggest minimally around a 35 footer even by traditional standards.

But in any event, the OP was talking about sailing down to the Carribean, that means a bash to windward. Frankly, I would focus on a boat that can go upwind with a modicum of comfortable and cover some ground, because going small is easier with a boat that can turn in decent passage times, than in a boat that was slow even when it was designed 50 years ago.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 
OP,
There are a lot of opinions floating around. How many of these opinions are of actual cruisers using the boats you inquired about in such a capacity, one Vega1860. All you need to do it look at Atomvoyages .com, well documented Triton and Alberg 30 circumnavigations and cruisinglealea.com (vega1860 in this thread) pacific ocean cruisers. Both well documented site by cruisers with videos showing you just how these boats perform as budget cruisers. Best of all is that they also document how they modified their boats from weekender/daysailor type boats to cruising boats. Check out youtube, search for atomvoyage and cruising lealea, prolly close to 200+ videos of the two boats you ask about(vega and triton), doing what you asked about, cruising.


good luck
 
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